 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hello
Hope you are all well. In 2005 I purchased a pair of k2 hellfire Apache skis. They were awesome. I skied the heck out of them all the time. Took great care of them. Last year when I took them to the ski shop to get them tuned up I was told they can’t work on my skis. Binding were to old. I asked if they a just out new bindings on they said no. Of course, I want to be safe out there, so I decided to purchase a new pair of skis. A few days later I went back and explained to the salesman that I am an intermediate skier and I love groomers and going fast. I am an east coast skier through and through. I was sold a pair of Nordica Navigator 75. This was a few years ago. I have been trying to get used to these skis and like them - I just can’t. The K2 hellfire skis that I had were very heavy and these are super light. I feel like these skis have made me regress for some reason - is this possible? Lol. My son’s skis (armada) are super heavy too. Just as heavy as my k2’s were. I am a big muscular 230 pound guy
Can someone recommend a ski that is current and similar to my beloved k2?? Are my current nordicas that much different?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
What length are your new skis?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
They are both 168. Look identical side by side….
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Skiblades. No going back after you've tried them. HTH.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
At 230 lbs, I think you should be on a Piste ski nearer 180. I suspect the K2 was a heavier, more robust ski with (I think) metal used in its construction, so it handled the forces you were putting through it better.....whereas The Nordicas are a lighter, more progressive ski (with no metal).
As for a suggestion - maybe try Head Magnums....or Titans if you want a bit wider....both in a 177.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 23-01-24 18:09; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Suburbandad, reading reviews of Nordica Navigator 75 it was never the ski for you and you were sold a pup. You need to do better/more research when buying kit. This thread would have saved you a lot of grief "a few years ago".
As I only really know all mountain skis I can't recommend something for you. If you can get a shop that is recommended by others and will let you try before you buy that would be ideal. Other than that do more research, read more reviews to get something that should suit.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 19-02-24 10:30; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
At 230lb you want something from the big boy end of the ski rack. One of the narrower Nordica enforcers or a Blizzard Brahma. Something with metal in it, in an appropriate length.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh and demo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Suburbandad, my recollection of the Apache range (bro-in-law had a pair) was that they were rather up the pack from "Navigators"? Oh, no, now I've searched them, no, wayyyyyy too old. A very, very dated design.
Never fear however, what @gorilla, says. Somewhere around an 80mm waist but a proper burly beefy ski from e.g. Völkl, Blizzard, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jep, around 75-80 mm with a metal beam inside would work. K2 Disruption 78ti in 177 cm or similar Völkl Deacon come to mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Ravensburger, my recollection of the Deacon is that it's a bit too squirrelly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@under a new name, Even the ones with ash core and titanal beams like 76 Master?
No doubt about that re. squirrelly if we’re talking about the ones lower down the range.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Ravensburger, I haven't skied the "Master"s myself, but you're right, my received perception is that they're a lot stronger.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| gorilla wrote: |
| At 230lb you want something from the big boy end of the ski rack. One of the narrower Nordica enforcers or a Blizzard Brahma. Something with metal in it, in an appropriate length. |
Volkl Kendo 88 - Done! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Is the volkl Kendal for intermediate groomer kind of guy like myself?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Kendo 88 for an intermediate?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Not skied them but the deacon masters have a plate on them. Looks like a nice ski but maybe not the desired item here. Worth demoing, though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Suburbandad, demo but at your weight you are going to bend it by looking at it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Suburbandad wrote: |
| Kendo 88 for an intermediate? |
I'd stick around 80mm for an east coast piste skier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Suburbandad, look at the Finesse skis on here, or the Power skis that also have a high finesse score or silver skier selection. Don't choose anything that is deliberately lightweight like the Rossi Basalt. https://realskiers.com/2024-mens-frontside-skis/
The K2 Disruption might be good as you liked your previous Apache, I remember the Apaches and suspect they're quite similar. Blizzard Brahma looks a good shout too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Stöckli LAser SX 181 cm or Fischer The Edge 178cm. I've skied and love both and sound like they would suit perfectly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
From photos it looks like the Nordica Navigator 75 have only have a partial sidewall - and are semi-capped. I think the k2 hellfire Apache skis have full sidewall. This could be the difference.
As a more "robust" skier myself I have always preferred something with a full sidewall - which gives you a heavier ski with more torsional stiffness and edge grip than capped construction.
I've been using Rossignol Experience 88's. Stable on piste - not too bad off-piste. But heavy to lug around!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| @Ravensburger, my recollection of the Deacon is that it's a bit too squirrelly. |
Saying Deacon without specifying which one is worthless, if you check the Völkl catalogues over the last few years the Deacon name can cover everything from beginner to expert skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Chris_n, That was my mistake, I should’ve been more precise. I meant the more robust Deacons by just referring to “similar” (to the K2 in width and build) Deacons - model(s) of which I couldn’t name from the top of my head.
To the OP: give those K2s a chance if you can find them near you. You might like them, if for no other reason than that they’re the same brand as the skis you used to love. I’d try both 177 (which I think you should ski given your size and the fact you like speed) and next size down (as you’re used to a shorter ski).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks all for this great advice!!!! Yeah, I made a hasty poor uneducated decision when I bought my current pair of skis a few years back when they refused to continue servicing my k2 hellfire Apache . I was super happy to see all of this information. I really was freaking out thinking that for some reason my skiing ability regressed drastically which I thought was odd. I miss my heavy skis! Below are some notes and what I will be checking out.
K2 disruption 78ti
Volkl deacon masters
Blizzard Brahma
80mm length
Stöckli LAser SX 181 cm or Fischer The Edge 178cm.
Skis with a full sidewall important
Rossignol Experience 88's
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
80mm length probably too short for you…
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Orange200 wrote: |
| 80mm length probably too short for you… |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you're checking out the Rossignol Experience 88's don't feel you need to go too short. They are mostly cambered but have a bit of tip rocker so will turn like a shorter fully cambered ski. They feel quite stable at speed (i.e. tip doesn't flap around). I have them sized at about head height.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Suburbandad wrote: |
| Rossignol Experience 88's |
I'd expect the Experience 82's to be a better bet for what you want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
East Coast
Ice
Boilerplate
Edge grip needed
Volkl
Or
Volkl
I have reverse camber Mantras
They should not grip on ice
They do
I’m not recommending Mantras but I am recommending Volkl sidewall built skis
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@valais2, good shout!
Something like a Völkl Deacon 84 has phenomenal grip on ice and is usable in pow & slush...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Suburbandad wrote: |
| I am an intermediate skier and I love groomers and going fast. I am an east coast skier through and through. |
Not quite sure why anyone would be recommending a wide ski for someone who just enjoys going fast on piste, or am I missing something else in a follow-up post? Get yourself a good piste-specific ski, you don't need anything wider than a 70mm waist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Suburbandad wrote: |
| Kendo 88 for an intermediate? |
You will love them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Suburbandad wrote: |
| I am an intermediate skier and I love groomers and going fast. I am an east coast skier through and through. |
Not quite sure why anyone would be recommending a wide ski for someone who just enjoys going fast on piste, or am I missing something else in a follow-up post? Get yourself a good piste-specific ski, you don't need anything wider than a 70mm waist. |
Don't disagree with the principle but what actual ski would you recommend? It's a tricky balance having a 70mm ski that's stiff enough to support a 230lbs bloke but not so stiff or unforgiving that it punishes intermediate technique, is it not?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
Don't disagree with the principle but what actual ski would you recommend? It's a tricky balance having a 70mm ski that's stiff enough to support a 230lbs bloke but not so stiff or unforgiving that it punishes intermediate technique, is it not? |
That is why I suggested Head Magnums - which I thought were reasonably forgiving. I had no problems on a 170 (I’m 145 lbs), so the 177 should work for the OP. I also think sticking to around 70mm (waist) is the way to go for skiing Pistes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Way back I had 69waist skis for years.
Just a habit.
Then went 86 and my knees loved me.
That’s around where I would be on piste.
Ice - yep plenty of grip
Corrugated boiler plate - less vibration
Mixed - more capable of holding a line
Slop - ride the piles like a boat
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| valais2 wrote: |
| Then went 86 and my knees loved me. |
That's an interesting comment, could you expand a bit?
I thought the conventional (but not necessarily proved ) wisdom is that a narrower ski is easier on the knees. There is evidence to suggest that a ski wider than your knee, say 100mm+ puts additional load on the knee and may cause long term issues but it cannot be proven either way yet because there isn't a person on the planet with say, 40 years experience of skiing a 100mm+ ski. There are plenty of 40+ year skiers with 70mm experience.
Do you believe that you've found a "sweet spot" for knees between say, 65mm and 100mm?
I also have a (manageable) knee issue and choose to ski on an 83mm ski but was considering getting a sub 70mm piste performance ski for a bit of fun. Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re width. Like most people on this board, I'm coming at this from a European perspective. Obviously narrow skis work well on hard snow at the start of the day. I like something slightly wider as conditions warm up and I'm dealing with cut up conditions, bumps, slush etc. So 80mm or a bit wider works for me. I'm not changing out skis with the conditions.
If the OP is purely skiing hardback and bulletproof moguls then a narrower ski would make sense. Key thing for the OP is demoing stiffer skis, probably with metal in them, in an appropriate length.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
What do you all think of Atomic Redster Q9.8 for me?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Suburbandad wrote: |
| What do you all think of Atomic Redster Q9.8 for me? |
Do you have the option of trying before buying?
As you can see from the replies, there is no “Right answer”… Only what is right for you, which is hard to determine for someone else.
FWIW. There is no Experience 88, as Rossignol now have an Experience 82 and 86, in both a Basalt and a Ti version. IMO you would need the Ti, probably in an 82.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
