 Poster: A snowHead
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Your opinion about photochromic goggles, please! Do they get dark enough in bright sunlight? If base tint is grey, isn't one better off using interchangeable lenses (orange/yellow) in foggy conditions? Thanks for your input!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had a fantastic pair of bolle photochromatic goggles a few years ago which seemed to darken quite noticeably! I've invested in a pair of smith photochromic lenses this year but not had the chance to use them yet... I'm hoping they're as good as the bolle!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Unsure about the effectiveness of photochromic (if only available in grey spectrum) in v-low contrast light such as white and with cloud cover. Same for any neutral lens.
Yellow primarily and "Rose" colour spectrum would appear to give enhanced modelling to the surrounding topography by converting related parts of visible spectrum to make better interpretation through our rods & cones data gathering eyeballs.
Yellow completely cancels blue and seems to give more 3D effects from raising contrast in, predominantly blue, shadow detail within piste surface etc.
"Rose" they prefer that description in marketing  is of red spectrum, as such it cancels cyan (blue green mix) to give similar but different range of contrast enhanced view.
Yellow appears to hold it marginally over Rose for deep down inside a very white whiteout, with Rose seemingly more useful in range from poor into higher light levels, more of an all round lens type.
Rose photochromic (is that available ? ) would be a great single lens choice.
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| ski3 wrote: |
Rose photochromic (is that available ? ) would be a great single lens choice. |
Bolle do one called Phantom+ (VLT 51 - 15) https://www.bolle.com/us/reference_screens.html
I have an earlier version with the Modulator Light Control lens
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd not use anything else.
I do a lot of riding in mixed light, where you might be in bright sunlight at the top of the mountain, then in shadowy forest lower down. Back in the day in poor light afternoon runs through the forest I'd find the light a bit dim, and now and then I'd need to shove my goggles out of the way. I don't like to stop on runs, so goggles with swappable lens [which I had] didn't help. I almost never see folk replacing goggle lenses during a day, let alone each run.
Photochromic... it's night and day. Well not exactly; some of them come with a completely clear "night vision" lens for floodlit riding. But for any other circumstance, they're really good. They don't all have the same range, but the ones I've used all seem to have enough for me. They're not quite as dark as the darkest lens (which most people's standard goggles do not use either), and not quite as transparent as the night riding lens... but that's not the point. Transition speed... well I'm pretty fast through the trees... when you first get photochromic you'll probably not notice how fast they darken, but you may notice they take a few seconds longer to brighten up in the dark of a forest. I don't notice any more.
I carry spares as I don't want to be forced to buy new non-photochromic goggles if I trash mine. Currently I've a pair of Salomon which are excellent, plus a pair of Atomics I've not yet tested in anger.
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Extremely limited sample size...... but Bollè appear to be leading currently 
They look interesting @Old Fartbag, and two slightly different choice in there too.
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Lenses don't enhance light they filter it out
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Are we faster than chatgpt ?
The snowhead collective that is
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ski3 wrote: |
They look interesting @Old Fartbag, and two slightly different choice in there too. |
Trivex NXT lenses are some of the best out there (eg. used by Smith and Julbo) - and the Phantom+ adds (semi) Polarization: "We have added to our Phantom lens a semi-polarized film (50% polarization), becoming Phantom+. When a 100% polarized lens fully blocks all reflections caused by the sun on snow, the Bollé 50% polarized film works like a moderately dense net that reduces distracting glare while getting enough light transmission through the lens in order to distinguish ice from snow. Phantom+ equipped with this technology offers an optimized reading of the terrain while reducing eye fatigue".
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@Tristero, there are threads discussing photochromic lenses so might be worth searching.
I was sceptical and haven't used any so far but many are very happy to use them and I could be persuaded at some point.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Old Fartbag, Polarisation doesn't really have much place in snow, ski environment. Light reflected from virtually all the snowscape is specular, not available for influence as a planar surface reflection is.
Also dependant on your position related to light source as to effectiveness. It'll polarise the blue sky for example, but if you rotated yourself through 360 degree you'd see it wax and wane as the angles change. From nothing to full Polarisation dependant on geometry.
Low to high light level performance in photochromic sense doesn't need it. It would seem that the colour (chroma) element of these hybrid type is a base level cut from lens performance, with the density only being varied by the adaption. In other words, the colour doesn't get deeper from this, just the density attenuation is what you get, effectively neutral density in variance.
The "prizm" type materials, noted in marketing, are very efficient though in splitting the colour spectrum, with very very small disturbance to visible acuity and that characteristic impressive view you get from these product.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ski3, That is also my view - though Bolle "claim" that a "Semi-Polarized" lens does reduce some glare in a helpful way. This of course could be more marketing BS than reality.
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@Old Fartbag, certainly its an area that can help quite a lot in marginal light viewing, the acuity and colour purity that is.
I worked extensively on image record and reproduction within photographic materials. From that it was clear that shadow areas that give us modelling in helping us absorb topographical information are primarily blue in snow scenes. That may have a low interest to some, but the conversion of blue hue by yellow filtration gives us pure density (black and white, crudely put) effectively moving our eye response from the colour cones which generally display less sensitivity, to our rods which are more adapted to low light levels.
Some years ago, standing on piste in La Tania, end of day, tree line run, no direct sunlight on piste surface at all. A group of us stood there trying each other's eyewear, by far to an extreme in performance was a very strongly yellow filtered pair of glasses.
It was literally like someone turned on the sun in those conditions. My own ski goggles were a light rose tint there which I had no problem with, but those yellow lenses where hugely different to see piste surface with.
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You know it makes sense.
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"Rose photochromic (is that available ? ) would be a great single lens choice"
Have a look at Julbo. My Zebra Light Red have been pretty good.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ski3, interesting. I had a pair of (iirc) Bollés some years ago that had "yellow gold" lenses - basically a darker yellow than typical - and they worked really well.
Actually, thinking about it, for very many years I only wore goggles when it was snowing - and most of the time wore Vuarnets with Skilynx lenses which were gradated yellow lenses. Worked really well most of the time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was considering some but was put off by reading they only work for 2 years. Was a while back so maybe things have moved on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That's interesting. I have a pair of plastic Serengeti sunglasses which are fantastic. But apparently 2-3 years life (mind you I'll probably have broken, scratched or lost them by 3 years. Au contraire, Mrs U has a glass pair, which don't have a life span and apparently get better with age.
Then again, they do have a "lifetime" warranty ...
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I still have some Salomon photochromic goggles from the 2014-15 season. They are still pristine despite more use than most holiday skiers will put such things to. The foam's looking a little worn and there's a scratch on one lens which my eyes don't see. The lenses of those don't appear to degrade with time or usage. Those are my oldest bit of gear and were ceremonially retired last season.
I'm surprised they still make non-photochromic lenses; the idea of carrying multiple lenses or pairs seems inefficient.
---
On very low light stuff... I used to struggle with alpine white-outs, but experience helps a lot with that. I dare say specialist low-contrast lenses would make that easier, but that's a specialist niche and I reckon most people won't have the right pair/ pens with them most of the time anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@phil_w,
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struggle with alpine white-outs
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I note you mention "alpine"  aren't you usually in the trees? Isn't alpine a bit boring? I think the reason that photochromic isn't more universal might be that the available range of light transmission is more limited? (But I am only guessing).
We have been using goggles with multiple lenses for years now and don't often find we need to change during a day. Even more rarely (if ever?) change more than once.
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| Quote: |
I almost never see people change lenses or goggles because of the light, which is why I think one needs less variation in brightness than one may imagine.
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Tend to agree. While multiple or photocromic lens may be optimum, it's probably not really necessary. The biggest gain comes from having a lens that does well in flat light. Many of those lenses are also perfectly adequate for a sunny day. I just use my rose prism lens 100% now.
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@phil_w, I am extremely impressed that Julbo include at least one lens that varies between cats 0-4 (i.e. the whole range).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you for all your input! I bought a pair of Cairns for the Mrs. Did work nicely in a range of 1-3, I'd say. She loved 'em, especially because she wouldn't change lenses anyway. So, I'd recommend.
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| Tristero wrote: |
| Thank you for all your input! I bought a pair of Cairns for the Mrs. Did work nicely in a range of 1-3, I'd say. She loved 'em, especially because she wouldn't change lenses anyway. So, I'd recommend. |
I have Cairn photochromic visor (I need prescription glasses and don't like contacts) but have to say I've been impressed with it. It might be a small compromise vs a dedicated "lense" at either end of the spectrum, but its quite established that no-one much bothers to change even goggles during the day, you certainly don't carry a spare visor with you!!
It reacts very quickly to change in light levels, it almost unnoticeable.
I also have some photochromic sports / cycling prescription glasses (also grey scale) which are great and go virtually clear in low light. Unless its very low light I often wear both together which works well too and being shaed to your head they fit / sit better than conventional specs under the vsior.. If the light goes really flat I flip up the visor so just have one "layer" of photochromic.
I'd concur that is not going photochromic, the best all round "single" is a low light lens, as that copes better in bright conditions than viceversa.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have an oldish pair of oakley flight decks with two non chromatic lenses. My wife and daughter have the same goggles in a smaller size.
Hi pink which allow 46% light through and sapphire iridium which allow 13 %
I can change the lenses pretty quickly now but there is a knack to it and my wife and daughter struggle with it so I tend to take care of this depending on the forecast for the day.
Unless the forecast is nailed on for complete blue skies all day , I tend to use the hi pink as its fine even if the sun is out but obviously better if a cloud pops up or we ski on a shady run.
But if we have the darker lens and the cloud rolls in it can make life tricky.
I never carry the spares on the mountain as too much faff to carry and change them every time weather changes.
If I could be assured that chromatic lenses will give me as good a range - I will likely plump for some of these next time. Mine are pretty scratched anyway !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I had to buy new goggles recently and asked the same photochromatic vs. swappable lenses question of a friend who's doing his 5th season and can ski backwards better than I can ski forwards. His opinion, having tried most things was that for general skiing go photochromatic - but if the only part of the weather forecast you look at is the temperature to see how many layers you need to put on a dedicated low light lens still does a better job on the really shitty days than the photochromatic.
So if you've never looked out the window and thought "It's a whiteout and visibility's going to be zero up the hill, maybe I'll have a lay-in and see if it clears up at all." go for swappable lenses, otherwise photochromatic's almost as good and less hassle.
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I have bite the bullet and bought a pair of julbo 0-4 otg goggles to replace my ageing poc photochromic goggles (poc discontinued the photochromic lense 3 or 4 years ago). Will report back when I get a chance to use them.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sheffskibod wrote: |
I have an oldish pair of oakley flight decks with two non chromatic lenses. My wife and daughter have the same goggles in a smaller size.
Hi pink which allow 46% light through and sapphire iridium which allow 13 %
I can change the lenses pretty quickly now but there is a knack to it and my wife and daughter struggle with it so I tend to take care of this depending on the forecast for the day.
Unless the forecast is nailed on for complete blue skies all day , I tend to use the hi pink as its fine even if the sun is out but obviously better if a cloud pops up or we ski on a shady run.
But if we have the darker lens and the cloud rolls in it can make life tricky.
I never carry the spares on the mountain as too much faff to carry and change them every time weather changes.
If I could be assured that chromatic lenses will give me as good a range - I will likely plump for some of these next time. Mine are pretty scratched anyway ! |
They are as good, well better actually as they adapt to the light, except for the very extreme of a really snowy flat light day, when a dedicated rose or yellow tint will be marginally better. IMHO they are well worth getting as they will be better than a "one or the other" solution for the majority of days on a par for most of the rest and you'll be slightly worse off, but still pretty good on what less that 5% of days? and much less faff or risk of making the wrong choice when a bright sunny morning turns to poo-poo after lunch.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| I have bite the bullet and bought a pair of julbo 0-4 otg goggles ... Will report back when I get a chance to use them. |
I've never managed to have the need for new goggles when those have been in stock, but I'm keen to know how they work.
With standard photochromic I'd like a very slight bit more dark; don't care much about very low light.
Out there in the last few weeks we had poor light such that people were taking their goggles off as the light deteriorated. I've still never seen anyone switch lenses "in the field". These are Atomic Photochromic, I think 1-3, nothing fancy, but they worked fine from bright sun to this type of stuff; I never even thought about them. Face shots definitely require goggles.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| I have bite the bullet and bought a pair of julbo 0-4 otg goggles to replace my ageing poc photochromic goggles (poc discontinued the photochromic lense 3 or 4 years ago). Will report back when I get a chance to use them. |
Please do! I'd like to hear about the base tint as well. That's actually my main concern with photochromic. I'd guess, base tint must stay the same over the spectrum, that's at least like it is with my sunglasses I use for cycling. Well, on the mountain one would prefer yellowish for low light and gray in bright conditions. The Cairns are orange, btw, which isn't a bad compromise, but a compromise nontheless.
| phil_w wrote: |
Out there in the last few weeks we had poor light such that people were taking their goggles off as the light deteriorated. I've still never seen anyone switch lenses "in the field". |
Actually, I do exactly that almost every day. Sometimes more than once. Mine are kept together with little magnets, so no mechanical fiddling. Changing takes merely seconds and is therefore a pretty faff-free thing to do.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Last year I was skiing at Kitzsteinhorn in april. We had few days when it was snowing really hard. There was a ski shop on a slop and I have tried Oakley Flight decks with Hi Pink lens. I was amazed with it. Since then I wantted to get a pair, but last week a friend of mine told me about Julbo Lightyear 0-4 photochromic goggles. I hope to see them in action soon.
At this moment i have Oakley Argon and Sapphire lenses for tests now. And I don't seen any diference 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@phil_w, fwiw I switched lenses “in the field” last week in Meribel. Went from blue sky to a blizzard so swapped in the gondola, magnetic lens took seconds to change.
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Courtesy of the airline who lost my baggage for four days I was forced to buy new goggles. Replaced my Oakley Airbrake XL pair (where I did change the lenses on the lifts quite often) with a pair of Julbo 0-4 photochromics. Have to say that I’ve been very impressed. They are fractionally less resolving that the Oakleys in flat light (the Oakley Rose Pink low light lenses are best I’ve used) but they were not far behind and the all-condition automatic adjustability was really impressive. I’ve now two pairs of goggle since airline finally found my baggage but I think I’ll be using the photochromics more often going forward.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I hope still soon enough to be useful
I have pair of Julbo Chameleon 2-4 Reactiv (photochromatic) and Polarised.
Referring to photo chromatic qualities...
There's some upside in not having to carry around separate goggles for those midday runs and the more shaded stuff late in the afternoon once the sun is behind the mountains.
Used them last week in Val Thorens in both blue bird and late into the afternoon. Also during runs moving in on and out of the shade I can see the reaction change in approx one turn.
Finally in not quite white-out skiing in the cloud at the top of Grand Fond piste on Thursday and Friday I could also see benefits - Not brilliant but my previous goggles definitely would've been worse up in the clouds and others in my group seemed to be complaining of vision worse than I felt.
It is worth noting that they respond to UV not visible light, but I find they actually stop that glare you otherwise get when cloudy, but still bright.
Referring to polarisation...
As some have mentioned this is another contentious topic but I feel strongly that it works for me.
I think it helps in the conditions noted above, but also for example a couple of years ago coming down from Cime Caron on last run of the holiday I found myself in a true white out. Couldn't even see previous tracks at tip of my skis if goggles off. (Yes, I should've wondered why I was only one of a dozen in the cabin on way up. )
Well, I was carefully navigating the red marker poles from one side of the piste to the other and back as the next pole was just about visible after a metre out so in the reverse direction of previous pole... and then about third of the way down I was aware of ski scraping noises around me. I turned around briefly to see a snake of about 20 to 30 people trailing off into the clouds behind me... People who I had passed and presumed couldn't now following me.
I also once had some Carerra polarised yellow lenses; Ultrasight I think they were called. Those were excellent, including sometimes if I was caught skiing in surprisingly bright sun. Hence I believe polarisation actually more important than the tint.
But on the other hand I've skied with plain yellow without polarisation and didn't feel they did much for me.
TLDR I do see benefit in photochromatic but see that as supporting polarisation which I value more.
And I place a little emphasis on the colour of the tint but that might be because the Julbo are already a "warm" colour tint.
Your mileage may vary.
Regards
Chris
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