 Poster: A snowHead
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The French authorities have warned skiers to be very careful about the current "dangerous" snow conditions found both on and off piste. They have advised backcountry travellers to take both crampons and an ice axe.
An 8 year old was killed on a blue piste at le Grand Bornand after he lost control on hard snow. A British skier has been killed at la Plagne after a fall and a ski tourer lost her life in the Belledonne after a ski tour when she fell 300m on icy snow during a traverse. Also in la Plagne a trail runner was found after a long search and rescue operation lasting 28 hours in a critical condition after falling on ice.
The rescue services have been running back to back missions over the weekend and hospitals are rammed with the injured.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There were 4 walking wounded on the Jet2 flight from Inn to Edi on Saturday, more than usual. I also saw a fair size avalanche right up against the piste in Serfus on Saturday. We were all sitting in our shirt sleeves in the sun at 3.30 waiting for our pick up in Fiss, extremely warm.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Seen more helicopters than usual today.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scary
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
The French authorities have warned skiers to be very careful about the current "dangerous" snow conditions found both on and off piste. They have advised backcountry travellers to take both crampons and an ice axe.
An 8 year old was killed on a blue piste at le Grand Bornand after he lost control on hard snow. |
God that's awful. It seems he accidently went onto a black slope from the blue, fell, and slid for "several hundred meters" on hard packed ice. That poor family.
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@t44tomo,
Indeed, that is truly shocking.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm not actually looking forward much to going skiing in less than a week's time. 
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@Hurtle, to be fair, we had rather a nice few runs around Morzine yesterday, having expected the boilerplate of Saturday. It softened up nicely.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Hurtle, see my Serre Chevalier trip report.
There were 3 in wheelchairs and another on crutches on my flight home and I'm really surprised it wasn't more. On a positive note, we didn't see many bloodwagons over the week and only 1 helicopter came in.
I read on here how much fun people are having and how great the conditions are and wonder if there are two resorts called Serre Chevalier. Really, I have never skied in conditions like that, probably the most dangerous I've ever had.
I'm going to have to do some serious searching before my 2nd trip in March, I don't want to ski that again!
Still, a bad day in the mountains and all that!
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@Hurtle, Where are you off to?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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No I think it is that one, so not snow related.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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See today's report from denfinella on visit to Areches-Beaufort with lots of lovely snow conditions. But don't all rush over there......
The combination of reports on resorts being unusually busy, and lots of very hard and nasty snow, makes me feel quite happy to curl up in a chair with a good book. Take care out there, folks.
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Saw a lot of blood wagons on the slopes on Sunday (yesterday). More than i normally see. One was first thing in the morning, poor bloke. Another chap looked knocked out, i rather shamefully used the opportunity to ski down behind the wagon as everyone gives pisteurs a wide berth, seemed the safest way down the normally chaotic, extremely icy piste.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 30-01-24 7:21; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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@gixxerniknik, maybe try hemsedal if you can't face risking another bad trip to the alps. I am about to go on my 4th on the trot friday so I know how you feel. I was checking the cams in hemsedal end of last march while making plans to go this easter and the place was nearly empty with amazing conditions. NOK has weakened quite a lot last time I checked. Im not going there now, off to 3v instead for social reasons. Will do at some point though. I have a colleague who has been a few times and recommends it and I also know some ski racing lads who keep going back.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Glosterwolf, I have a mate who just came back from Finland somewhere...loved it but a bit limited and extremely cold!
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Poster: A snowHead
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A friend dislocated his shoulder today at Les Arcs. He bumped into some ice and tumbled down a whole black slope. Be safe out there guys!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From the way people - experienced people - are talking I have little doubt that faced with those conditions I'd choose not to ski. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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At Grindelwald First we have a joke about the "steepest blue in the world".
Last Sat the easy traverse (blue) was closed due to huge volumes of avalanche debris.
The alternative is the steep bit which in all honesty would be red or possibly black in most circumstances. Saturday the joke looked thin, folk taking skis off, sliding down on backsides and Dad's struggling with little ones. The snow surface was polished, glazed and far from appealing!
Problem is only going worse until we see a change in the weather.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
folk taking skis off, sliding down on backsides
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That sounds much more dangerous than keeping your skis on. They have sharp edges bottoms don't
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There is hard packed snow, and there is ice. Often the two are mixed up; hard pack is common when there hasn't been any new snow for a while, but ice (when the piste is translucent) is rare.
At the moment though, there is indeed some actual ice about. And because it's midwinter and many pistes are in the shade, it's difficult to see until you're about to ski over it.
Most other slopes are hard packed, but not all - it depends on orientation, altitude and several other factors. Over the last few days:
- Arêches Beaufort (today): next to no ice, and generally fairly decent conditions as @Origen says.
- Valmorel (yesterday & Saturday): lots of hard pack and quite a bit of ice too, but generally much better over the ridge in St François
- La Clusaz (Friday): a bit of everything - add slush into the mix too
- La Grand Bornand (Thursday): too many north facing slopes, so really hard packed. Sad to hear about the recent death.
None of the above resorts have been particularly busy.
I wouldn't necessarily agree about it getting worse every day, necessarily. There was rain late last week in the NW Alps, which made the snow even harder when it froze. But since then, I think dry air has allowed the snowpack to release some of its moisture, plus piste bashers can work on the snow. Some pistes are therefore closing due to ice, but reopening a few days later once they've been worked on.
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There does seem to be a growing trend of folk walking down slopes, rather than side-slipping when it gets difficult for them. I stoped to ask a chap who was walking down a blue piste skis in hand, if he was ok, assuming an equipment failure. He thanked me for stopping, said he was fine, but just wanted to get to an easier bit!
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If you read French, Blandine (well a member of the family), who died in the Belledonne posted a last trip report on the ski tour website: https://skitour.fr/sorties/169077
The north face of the Dent du Pra is not somewhere to be in icy conditions; even for an experienced ski tourer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Side slipping is maybe an under-rated skill? I have told before the story of two young kids I saw, each with their own ESF instructor, being taught to side-slip, for a whole private lesson. I've had side-slipping lessons too - falling leaf-style, weight forward, weight back. Very useful indeed and something I often subsequently practiced. Not much use on proper ice, but there's not so much of that about. On proper ice, flat skis till you get to the other side seems to be the answer - and if there's no other side.......give up. 
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Only place I have ever seen proper 'sheet ice' was in Canada on a black run at the back side of Lake Louise I think. Not seen it on that 'green road' (I'm guessing Frejus) in January though, March/April after a rapid thaw or rain and then a freeze, possibly, but it would normally be closed if the conditions were so bad.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Hells Bells, pretty sure it was Frejus, and it was closed you are right. Totally iced up...never seen anything like it. Was it open this week?
I looked out for any snowheads stickers/buffs or a couple of more mature chaps hoofing up but couldn't see anyone to say "Hi" to.
@Origen, One of my off piste course instructors from TDC told us that even the pros sometimes side slip into position for the off when it's a bit sketchy. He may have just been saying that to make us feel better though but it's stuck in my head.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Origen, side slipping is a very useful skill but just a tool in the box
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Well yes, but anyone taking skis off and walking down a slope presumably lacks that skill - it's a real "get you out of jail" card.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Ski lots wrote: |
| There does seem to be a growing trend of folk walking down slopes, rather than side-slipping when it gets difficult for them. I stoped to ask a chap who was walking down a blue piste skis in hand, if he was ok, assuming an equipment failure. He thanked me for stopping, said he was fine, but just wanted to get to an easier bit! |
I did both this year - on one slope I side slipped about 50m - I had a mental block and just could not make myself point downhill to do a turn - madness! on another slope I fell, so my skis were off already - after a failed attempt to put skis back on I just put them across my knee and slid down a bit till it was flatter so that putting them back on was easier. I wouldn't have attempted that though if the snow hadn't been reasonable - I am sure without the ski edges if it was icy then once I started sliding I might not have stopped, equally though if it had not been so snowy I might have had a better go at putting the skis on - they just kept getting buried so that I couldn't get them "clear" under the bindings.
All this is making me very nervous for March - I really need some "nice" snow to get my confidence back up!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@skimummk, courage! It can be really difficult and energy-sapping to get skis back on. Very useful to have some help. I remember watching, from a chairlift, a woman hopelessly struggling (on an easy red piste) because the binding wasn't set right. There was nobody around. I could have yelled at her but the French for "Press that knobby thing on the back of the binding down" escaped me at the time! When I got to the top I skied down to her, still struggling, and helped - she was exhausted. I have been very glad of help too, when I fell (several times!) on the descent of La Grave, my major off-piste adventure, in tricky snow. I completed the descent (and the short climb up to the car park on the other side, which was knackering but straightforward enough) but only because of a team effort to help me. I was the weakest member of the group (only female, far older than the rest) after the originally weakest member had dropped out earlier in the week after a fall which had required the rest of us to help him down. It was character building but I realised my limitations. Some of the off piste areas in the Espace Diamant had a sign at the top "Savoir Renoncer" which loosely translated means "know when to give up". And knowing when to give up - not too soon, nor too late, is the hardest thing about life in general and in particular about growing old!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Putting skis back on in difficult circumstances is made easier if folk practice different methods in not so difficult circumstances: standing below both skis and crossing the lower foot over the higher to put the lower ski on; burying the tails off piste on in soft snow to make them stable; stamping the boots into the bindings and then releasing them again to get rid of any compacted snow.
We have a skiing friend, who used to be a military paratrooper, who thought he would be able to put his skis on from a recumbent position at the top of an exposed slope. He had earlier brushed off the idea of practicing such benal things as putting skis on. He is sometimes referred to as “Stand-up Danny” and not because he tells a good joke.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Side slipping is an absolutely invaluable tool. My wife is a nervous skier, and unfortunately not the best side slipper. That is a good reminder to get her more lessons on that specifically.
I fear that my trip this coming weekend is going to involve way more side slipping than I would ordinarily employ.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| gixxerniknik wrote: |
@Hells Bells, pretty sure it was Frejus, and it was closed you are right. Totally iced up...never seen anything like it. Was it open this week?
I looked out for any snowheads stickers/buffs or a couple of more mature chaps hoofing up but couldn't see anyone to say "Hi" to.
@Origen, One of my off piste course instructors from TDC told us that even the pros sometimes side slip into position for the off when it's a bit sketchy. He may have just been saying that to make us feel better though but it's stuck in my head. |
I'm at home in the Uk, so no stickers or buffs around from me this week. Not back out there until March. I wouldn't have thought that green would have been open if it was sheet ice, some sections may have been though as it intersects with the red piste at various points.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My son once shared a tiny flat in Val d'Isere with a top-qualified BASI instructor. He went out with them on their days off sometimes - he's a good skier, but they were in a different league. Faced with a very steep and very icy slope he was advised to side skip it, fast, with flat skis until he came to a softer bit. He swallowed hard as they all launched down - and it worked! But not recommended for most of us. The temptation to dig the edges in a bit to slow down would do for me!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Genuine ice is often encountered on the ridges of glenshee and other Scottish areas. Also in East Cost on the US. It’s not that big a deal if you know how to side slip and have good edges. Anyone who tours has also dealt with it. But you must never, ever, take your skis off. You are always safer with them on. Even if you think the opposite keep them on. And figure out a way of surviving with them.
To be frank with conditions as they are in some places, you wonder why there is not more questioning of why people are skiing if true ice will be that dangerous to them.
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Is the water ice a consequence of rain earlier in the season perhaps ?
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| Peter S wrote: |
| Is the water ice a consequence of rain earlier in the season perhaps ? |
Yes, lots of ice about in certain places. Not hard pack… actual ice. Snow is like a sponge, when it rained the snow absorbed it. Last Thursday we skiied down to la daille, it was traumatic, too many people skiing way too fast (obviously beyond their ability) on solid icy pistes, some areas depending on aspect were icier than others. I’m a good skier as is Mr E, but we were both standing to the side watching all the idiots fly by with arms waving around skis and boards getting away from people. The inevitable boarder lost his edge and unable to stop himself slid at least 30m straight in to the back of a skier, took out both her legs slamming her back in to the piste both legs above her head…. How she got up and skied off i’ve no idea.
Always avoid the patch directly under the snow canon head.
The more people who ski on the pistes the more the ice gets shaved, that then gives this sugary stuff, so the pistes while icy do vary a lot. I always aim for the shaved sugar (i call it fluff, it’s not fluffy, it’s just a relative term compared to the solid ice)
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@skimummk, I would not be worrying about March when it's still January!!
We had rather pleasant snow on Sunday in Morzine. Albeit with not a very early start.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bit surprised hearing these anecdotes about people's inability to sideslip (or probably more correctly, people's lack of proper side slipping technique).
It was one of the very first things we were taught as kids in Scotland....... although perhaps that's a reflection on the occasionally ropey nature of the snow up here !
That, and how to put a ski back on in challenging circumstances, are skills I couldn't really do without.
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Yes in the 1970s and early 1980s standing in 10 lines of queues at the Corrie Cas or Whitelady high precision side slipping with skis together bevame a competitive sport. Extremely useful and essential on frozen snow 
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FAQ
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