 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey snow heads.
My wife and I are going on our honeymoon March 25th - April 8th. Landing in Zurich the morning of the 25th and was planning on renting a car to drive to Tasch and then parking the car there for our Zermatt ski time (a week) then picking it up to drive to Cham for the next week, then back to Zurich to fly out back to the states. I realize that we could save a few bucks and maybe a bit of time doing trains and transfers but we honestly like the idea of going at our own pace and not having to worry about schlepping luggage on trains and buses. Is this a reasonable idea? Any tips for some Floridians driving in Switzerland/France?
Thanks in advance for any help!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds like an entirely sensible plan-we've driven the roads and routes you've been on and it's all pretty straightforward. Swiss hire cars should still have winter tyres at that time of year. The train is great, and you can drink in the views, but for what you are planning, I can see why you would want to avoid the faffing
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Seems a sensible plan. I'd say it's _extremely_ unlikely that you'll need snow chains at that time of year. I've never used them at that time, and I don't think any part of that route goes over 1500m.
There's no motorway between Chamonix and the Swiss border heading to/from Martigny, so no need to worry about French tolls.
P.S. congrats on the marriage!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Appreciate all the help! No experience driving in the alps but we've driven through snow in the US with snow tires. I'll make sure that the rental comes with appropriate tires and possibly some chains just to be safe.
Definitely plan on eating at the Kulmhotel Gornergrat! thanks for the suggestion!
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@npennington85, it’s easy driving and you should not worry at all about it. @mountainaddict, did nothing other than add stress. You don’t need any of that stuff. And it is extremely unlikely you will encounter winter driving conditions at that time of year anyway. To be honest I am quite cross that he might have put doubt in your mind, I don’t think he had much idea what he is talking about tbh.
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@mountainaddict, absolute guff. Winter tyres and snow chains are not chargeable from
Swiss rental stations, they are standard. Please stick to what you know.
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@zikomo, please be nice....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@zikomo, snow tires included yes, but the last time we rented in Geneva (Swiss side) snow chains were chargeable.
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| Perty wrote: |
| @zikomo, please be nice.... |
Don't feed the troll
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| There's no motorway between Chamonix and the Swiss border heading to/from Martigny, so no need to worry about French tolls |
Cheers @snowdave and apologies. I got the route wrong in my head - and stand corrected (in my orthopaedic insoles  ).
| Quote: |
| @mountainaddict, did nothing other than add stress....To be honest I am quite cross that he might have put doubt in your mind....I don’t think he had much idea what he is talking about tbh |
Mind it's a fair cop...absolutely bang to rights  After driving to ski areas in over 20 countries for more than 35 years - including negotiating snowy mountain roads (with chains) in April and sliding on snow-covered, low-level motorways with no snow tyres in late March (as none were available from the Italian car hire), I've got absolutely no idea what I'm doing behind the wheel. I had hoped I'd have a bit of an idea by now but, alas, I'm still completely clueless. It's like Mr Bean meets Frank Spencer - only on the other side of the road (but only if I remember which side...).
The OP is, of course, at liberty to disregard everything I suggested, as it's never wise to be prepared. And it never snows to lower altitudes in the Alps late in the season.
| Quote: |
| Absolute guff. Winter tyres and snow chains are not chargeable from Swiss rental stations, they are standard |
I was thinking I must have dreamt that I'd paid for both on numerous occasions in Switzerland in the past, but then a quick check on a car for seven days from Geneva later this month revealed as follows:
Guff indeed 
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 7-02-24 1:53; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In mountainaddict's defence, if the French police say you need chains (irrespective of tyres on car) to continue then there is no arguing with them.
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| Quote: |
| In mountainaddict's defence, if the French police say you need chains (irrespective of tyres on car) to continue then there is no arguing with them. |
"But...but...zikomo said it was alright!" That should work a treat @Kenzie!
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You know it makes sense.
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| zikomo wrote: |
@mountainaddict, absolute guff. Winter tyres and snow chains are not chargeable from
Swiss rental stations, they are standard. Please stick to what you know. |
Winter tyres have sometimes been chargeable for me on the Swiss side of Geneva and snowchains are now often found cable tied shut, in the boot of the car. On the last 2 rentals I was advised that if I broke the cable tie and used the chains I would be charged 70 Swiss Francs. So I bought chains in France for 28 Euros instead.
Where's the guff in that, Zikomo? 
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 7-02-24 4:08; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Perty wrote: |
| @zikomo, please be nice.... |
I second that. No need for abrasion 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Assume OP can drive stick, that's the main risk for US drivers, plus of course narrower roads and tighter parking spaces.
Guess if you're renting something bigger like a BMW estate you're more likely to get an auto.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@npennington85, if it was me, I’d not be leaving a pricey hire car in a car park for a week.
Swiss trains are excellent. It’s not much faff with luggage. Changes are timed to be easy. Go First. Plan on a pleasant onboard luncheon.
ZRH-Zermatt, Zermatt-GVA then hire car to get up motorway to Cham and back to ZRH.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've never driven over the Col des Montets - is that the one the OP would be using? But I've often seen the road signs noting whether it's open or closed and it can and does close at any time of the season after heavy snow and winter tyres/chains are certainly sensible.
Like others who have been scoffed at on Snowheads I have been required by French police to use snow chains on top of good winter tyres and also chosen to put them on, without a policeman in sight, including one memorable April day when a sudden storm of slippery spring snow saw me come (with my winter tyres) to a complete halt, with no traction at all. I had to put chains on, but an hour later when I drove back on the same road, the snow had completely melted and the black tarmac was steaming. Some smart Alec will no doubt be along to tell me I don't know how to drive in snow but after 15 winters I did actually get reasonably good at it.
People who drive to the Alps for a week or so maybe twice a year for a decade will say they've "never had to use chains". That's maybe 20 days experience. Not a lot.
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Winter tyres are fitted on rental cars in Switzerland from 15th Nov to 31st March. It’s feasible to have snow on the Col de Forclaz / Montets even late season although it will melt pretty fast. I’m with @under a new name, and would train it from ZRH to Zermatt and on to Geneva. Swiss trains are very comfortable and you can trolly your gear right to the platform. Get a 1st class saver ticket, sit back and enjoy the ride. More relaxing than driving. And if you can fly out of GVA rather than Zurich it will be even easier for the return.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think with that itinerary I might be tempted to rent only for the second half of the trip. Not that driving from Zurich to Zermatt is difficult, but you need to add around an hour total onto Google's time for the journey to include the train transport through the Lötschberg Tunnel (or the less frequent Furka-Basistunnel, or the longer route via lake Geneva) and the parking/train connection at Täsch.
The rail journey is in many ways a more pleasant and relaxed way to do it, then you could rent your car from Visp, returning either to the airport or back to Visp and the train journey back. I haven't looked at the comparative costs but I suspect it would work out cheaper overall than including the extra week's rental while it's just parked doing nothing.
Edit: apologies - for some reason I didn't see any of the later replies saying pretty much the same thing before posting this - must have not refreshed the browser window since late last night.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Assuming your Chamonix accom has decent parking, it’s quite useful to hae a car in Chamonix. May I ask where you’re staying?
@Origen, I’ve lived in or near the alps for 19 years, driving at least most weekends (albeit rarely above 1,400m) and I’ve never even owned chains, let alone needed them. 
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
I was thinking I must have dreamt that I'd paid for both on numerous occasions in Switzerland in the past, but then a quick check on a car for seven days from Geneva later this month revealed as follows:
Guff indeed |
I think that’s a Rental Cars con job. They are obligated to put Winter tyres on in CH in Winter whether you pay for it or not. They may charge you for the privilege but I wouldn’t tick the box (I used them in Japan and it was the same). And I’ve never used chains living 15 years in CH. If using main roads they always get cleared quickly. France may not be as efficient?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@swskier, 4x4?
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I didn't have 4WD which would no doubt have made a difference. Never felt the need - using chains occasionally was no big deal. But my place was at 1550m and some miles from a main road. No plough after about 10 pm and my covered parking was up a steep ramp with a 90 degree turn on a private road with no public snow clearance and a somewhat truculent contractor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mountainaddict, If you are hiring from the Swiss side they can’t legally hire a car that does not have winter tyres. All of the hire cars have them fitted all of the time. If you are hiring from the French side at GVA you may well have to specify and pay for them.
Most (in fact all the cars I have hired from GVA Swiss side) have snow chains in the boot. As others have said with a cable tie around them and a charge of you break it. Which is sensible as you are very unlikely to need them.
What I objected to was the scaremongering in your post. Talking about how it can be tricky even for experts like yourself. Questioning if the OP was experienced at winter driving on tricky roads. Telling him to take a shovel etc. When the route is all main roads, and car parking is covered.
I was grumpy last night so I do apologise for not expressing my point more politely. But I do stand by my point. It’s an easy drive. It is very unlikely there will be adverse winter weather. There really is nothing to worry about.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@under a new name, no front wheel drive transit custom. One trick we have learned since being here is to reverse uphill if we're struggling. Not possible in many places, but possible on the road we live in.
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@swskier, then I can easily understand and I don’t think it’s your driving  might be your snow tyres though!!
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name, they are cheap snow tyres. We have said when we replace them we'll invest a high end winter tyre.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@swskier, TBH I've tended to use very cheap winter tyres for at least the last 15 years. It's easy enough to look up some proper test results to ensure that they're going to do the job. Data is available on grip, noise and longevity which are the key factors, AFAIAC.
Drove my wife's Audi TT roadster down to the valley on Monday, 4WD with cheap winters on, which do tend to squeal a bit when it's +10C or warmer. Even activated the traction control (a light comes on) a couple of times under not-very-spirited cornering, which is very difficult to do, i.e. you've got to be seriously going for it, with proper summer ones (and I go cheap for those as well) so clearly they don't have the overall grip, especially when cornering, at higher temperatures but I have no reason to suppose that premium branded winter tyres would perform any better.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Have we drifted off topic? Snowheads, eh?!
Quite like the car pick up in Visp, down to Martigny and over to Cham, simples. Only really optimal if you can drop the car off again in Geneva Airport (direct train thence to Zurich airport).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
Assuming your Chamonix accom has decent parking, it’s quite useful to hae a car in Chamonix. May I ask where you’re staying?
@Origen, I’ve lived in or near the alps for 19 years, driving at least most weekends (albeit rarely above 1,400m) and I’ve never even owned chains, let alone needed them. |
We’re staying a block away from
The Aguille Du Midi train station on Av. Ravanel le Rouge.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
@npennington85, if it was me, I’d not be leaving a pricey hire car in a car park for a week.
Swiss trains are excellent. It’s not much faff with luggage. Changes are timed to be easy. Go First. Plan on a pleasant onboard luncheon.
ZRH-Zermatt, Zermatt-GVA then hire car to get up motorway to Cham and back to ZRH. |
This might be what we end up doing. Appreciate the input!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
@npennington85, if it was me, I’d not be leaving a pricey hire car in a car park for a week.
Swiss trains are excellent. It’s not much faff with luggage. Changes are timed to be easy. Go First. Plan on a pleasant onboard luncheon.
ZRH-Zermatt, Zermatt-GVA then hire car to get up motorway to Cham and back to ZRH.
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this exactly, swiss trains are excellent
- there is an apology on the website that the trains they hold in reserve ready to go in case of an issue with the allotted train "may not have AC"
- on a recent transfer we got very worried because our train had not left at 2mins past the allotted time, there were 2 trains to Zurich so we then assumed we had got on the wrong one. Turns out our train was waiting for a delayed post bus and was soon underway, and of course made up the shocking 5mins it was delayed.
- the app is excellent it will tell you which platform any changes arrive and leave from and give a map (although usually they are timed so common connections depart on adjacent platforms.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Not answering your question but, my daughter and I did a week in Saas Fee (similar area) then a week in Chamonix shortly before covid. The train journey was the most memorable part of the whole trip! Especially between Martigny and Vallorcine, it was absolutely stunning. But a car would be preferable when in Chamonix to get to the various hills.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@npennington85, if it was me, I’d not be leaving a pricey hire car in a car park for a week.
Swiss trains are excellent. It’s not much faff with luggage. Changes are timed to be easy. Go First. Plan on a pleasant onboard luncheon.
ZRH-Zermatt, Zermatt-GVA then hire car to get up motorway to Cham and back to ZRH. |
Or alternatively for trains:-
Zurich - Zermatt. Zermatt - Chamonix. Chamonix - Zurich.
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@Kenzie, zermatt -> Chamonix? Not bad at 3:40-odd and very scenic but car handy in Cham and local hire very pricey …
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Chamonix ZRH tho about 6 hours …
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@npennington85,
Re trains, to check if they would suit:-
eurail.com & use the route planner
If driving viamichelin.com for routes & indication of costs. Stick to motorways as some mountain passes are shut in winter (sometimes used as ski slopes).
Pop onto the Snowreports forum on here, find Zermatt & Chamonix threads and ask questions re bars, restaurants, ski schools etc
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FAQ
Or on any trip! 
