 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
I'm at the end of a 6 month trip to Europe and I want to go skiing for the first time before I go back home to Australia.
I'm looking at Pas de la Casa in Andorra because because it's cheap and I could see Spain for the first time as well.
There's not much snow forecasted on j2ski but I can see snow on the webcam. Would that be artificial? How important is fresh snow for first timers?
Otherwise, I could go to Niederau in Austria, recommended by wertu.ai. There's heaps of snow on the forecast and I could go to the beer halls in Germany on Christmas day but it would be more expensive and I would have to skip Spain.
Montgenèvre in France is interesting. Some snow forecasted, good Apres, similar price to Austria and I might be able to get to Spain.
Then there's Bansko in Bulgaria. Cheap, snow forecasted and I could see the Balkans in winter.
Should I consider anywhere else?
Is j2ski good for forecasts?
Would I be better off going in mid-jan rather than late December? Would there be snow in Pas in mid-jan?
Thank you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Early or very late season anywhere in the Pyremees can be a bit dodgy in terms of snow, not just the amount, but in the condition - last thing you want to be doing as a complete beginner is skiing on icy slopes. That said, as a beginner you're not going to be covering massive miles, so conditions around the nursery areas & lower slopes are probably more important than elsewhere.
If there's any way you can get yourself to a "fridge" beforehand I'd highly recommend it as you have guaranteed safe conditions in a controlled environment, a day or couple of days at a fridge with lessons morning & afternoon should see you able to do the basics & at least you then know if you can't ski properly in resort it's not "just you"!
Personally I'd go for Austria or French alps as having the best conditions, I've just come back from Tignes & whilst it was superb up high, it was very icy & unpleasant below around 1700m, which I think is a symptom of this season due to recent rain below around 1800m
Austria appears to have had the best of the snow in early season, I've never skied Montgenevre, but Sauze isn't far from there where I have skied & has a patchy snow record, nowadays vastly improved by snow making. Modern snowmaking is a vast improvement on the icy crystals they used to turn out & I doubt you'd know the difference as a beginner. Not skied Niederau, but the Austrians do make a superb job of keeping their slopes in top condition, nevertheless can be icy down low. Have you considered St, Anton/Lech or perhaps Mayrhofen (known for its après), or maybe Deux Alpes or Tignes in France.
Wherever you decide - Enjoy! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Telegraph just costed up ski trips across 32 well known resorts in The Alps, Pyrenees, Norway, as well as Bansko and Niseko. Financially, you may want to look at:
Bardonecchia
Any Norwegian resort
Passo Tonale
Rauris
La Thuile
Arinsal
Cervinia
Ellmau
Whilst looking at snow cover etc.
Lift queues will be long at many resorts until say Saturday 6th January.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mid Jan much cheaper and less crowded than Xmas - new year weeks. also a lot of the alps have snow forecasted in next couple of days and new year so best to go after that has fallen and you can see when has copped plenty of snow.
I'm pretty such Bansko is just grass and warm at the moment.
If you end up in Spain from Montgenevre, you have definitely gone off piste you can ski to Italy from there though, although probably not on your first week ever skiing.
Austria conditions could well be best - lost of snow due to hit it, from the list above Rauris is a nice resort for a beginner and cheaper than the bigger Austrian resorts. Nice bunch of blue slopes mid mountain for once you progressed of the nursery/ learner area and also a blue slope from top of the mountain. My mates family all learnt there and enjoyed it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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you dont need falling snow, you need snow on the ground.
pass is fully white and a good shout for learning, but isnt very chocolate box, id find a small austrian resort
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If budget is tight you're not likely to be able to afford lessons in a fridge but do book up for a week's lessons in resort before you go. For the first trip a package deal for beginners can work well though much cheaper if you can find a mate to go with. If UCPA have any suitable trips they'd be ideal ( Action Outdoors if you're in the UK).
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& to answer another of the OP's Q's, I find J2Ski to be more accurate with their snow reports & forecasts than most, tho' they do seem to have a bit of a habit of exaggerating the amount of snow likely in next few days, weather nearly always seems to be slightly better (ie sunnier) than they forecast. As a beginner you want blue skies & sunshine a day or so after it's snowed & with a decent base underneath, skiing in snow/whiteout conditions is not fun, particularly when you're trying to learn!
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| Quote: |
Would I be better off going in mid-jan rather than late December?
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Yes. Christmas and New Year week are very expensive and very crowded so the worst of both worlds
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For most holiday skiers dry weather, sun and light winds is Idea!
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You won’t see Spain from Pas de la Casa, you’ll see an ugly concrete jungle with drunk teens on tax-free booze. You can get the same snow basing yourself in Soldeu five miles down the road, perhaps accommodation bargains not so good though. For genuine Spain consider Baqueira but I haven’t seen the snow reports this year.
If it’s your first time skiing I would certainly go for Austria in mid-January after the holiday crowd have left. I would not go for Bansko either. Just check the place has snow making facilities, especially on the learner slopes, and you’ll be fine. Pay for lessons as also the instructor will know where is the good snow that day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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First time ever? It depends. My understanding is that Bulgaria has a bit of a party vibe as a destination. Which may or may not be your thing.
I'd be tempted to check Sarajevo... Austria or some of the smaller French resorts. It all depends on budget!! You might be able to get into somewhere last minute, for a bit of a bargain.
Agree with getting lessons - the instructor will help you find the snow / avoid the crowds.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| You won’t see Spain from Pas de la Casa, you’ll see an ugly concrete jungle with drunk teens on tax-free booze. |
The OP may (as we did) fly into Barcelona for an Andorra trip, so could indeed then see a bit of Spain
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Fair. But don’t call it Spain, the Catalonians will lynch you 
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You know it makes sense.
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Is j2ski good for forecasts? Can't say for sure but my general experience of tour operators is that they'll ALWAYS assure you there's going to be a really big dump of snow in 4-6 days time...
Personally I tend to use snowforecast.com, predict wind.com, windy.com - in fact any decent meteorology provider - for clues as to what weather conditions might be encountered.
Historical data (unless last 5-15 years) is becoming a bit meaningless
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I’m in Andorra at the moment (I live here). I’ve skied the last few days and the actual piste skiing is fine. There’d be plenty enough to keep you going in Pas as a beginner.
As @Orange200, Says, it’s not a pretty place but it’s ok. Especially if you like a party. It’s easy enough to get into Spain too if you want to tag a trip there in after your ski holiday. Andbus from Pas to Barcelona or public bus from Pas to ALV and then onto a number of places in Spain (there’s even a twice weekly bus to Portugal).
If you end up in beginner lessons in Pas, you might be taught by my stepson. I think he’s the only native English speaking instructor in Pas this season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Seriously? Soldeu/ET would advertise themselves as always having native speakers. My daughters learned ok there. Amazingly, last night elder daughter asked to go back, as we all know it well and they could now be left to their own devices.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Orange200, Soldeu/El Tarter there are loads of native English speaking instructors. Not in Pas though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
I decided to hold off skiing after hearing about the busy holiday period and flew to Spain. Christmas time in Spain is fantastic.
To my surprise, I ended up skiing in Sierra Nevada and I loved it. I met someone in our hostel in Granada that was driving up there and we tagged a long. Half a day skiing, ski hire and a 1 hour private lesson for 100 euros.
I managed to get down a few blue runs but I'm annoyed I didn't ski down the long blue run to cap the day off. The longer runs look awesome and I believe Pas in Andorra has good ones too.
I've got some friends going to Chamonix soon and I'm going to join them. Le Tour looks fun.
I'm look at going to an Italian resort afterwards, on the way to Milan where I'll fly home. I want to see how the Italian alps compare to the french, mainly the food, scenery and price. Pila and La Thuile look interesting, Cervinia looks like it's closed.
Does anyone have any recommendations?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cervinia won’t be closed as one of the highest resorts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You should check wepowder.com to get a good overview of where the snow is good. The southern (Italian) side of Alps and Pyrenees have a serious snow drought until now.
If you want value duurt money go to the Maurienne, f.e. Val Cenis, Valmeinier.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I’ve been to Andorra six times and Sierra Nevada once, and wouldn’t even put them in the same sentence. (Oh, hang on…). Glad you were lucky with SN because you need to be, it can be closed for high winds or lack of snow. Whereas Grandvalira, where PdlC starts, has well over 100km of very varied terrain.
Enjoy the rest of your trip!
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| cadell wrote: |
I'm look at going to an Italian resort afterwards, on the way to Milan where I'll fly home. I want to see how the Italian alps compare to the french, mainly the food, scenery and price. Pila and La Thuile look interesting, Cervinia looks like it's closed.
Does anyone have any recommendations? |
If we're generalising into stereotypes, Italians tend to be louder and more gregarious, perhaps more welcoming...though in the North of Italy they're probably not as exuberant as the Andalucians of Southern Spain!
The food is usually very good, but different to France, more polenta, pasta, risotto, wild boar, venison, grilled meats and a bit less cheese & potato, but not a lot! Prices...overall a bit cheaper, but it depends more on which resorts you are comparing. Some of the top French resorts can be extortionate, other less well known resorts are quite reasonable. There are differences between resorts in Italy, but less variation, never seen extortionate pricing anywhere.
As to Valle d'Aosta...
I'd say not a lot for beginners at Courmayeur, but it is a very scenic spot with Mont Blanc looming.
La Thuile has some great blues in the central bowl above Les Suches, you will need to download on the gondola lift as the reesort runs aare steep.
Pila is very convenient to get to from Aosta train station, the gondola is within walking distance. Some nice views and good runs in the high bowl.
Cervinia would be great if you can get up there, some good progressor blues on the left side and if you can get to the top and ski into Switzerland that would be amazing. The bit down the glacier to Trockener Steg is pretty easy and it's OK down to Schwarzsee for amazing views of the Matterhorn. As long as you can ski the easy red back from the Klein Matterhorn/Glacier Paradise back to Cervinia you will have an amazing day! 
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Pila makes sense, as you need to drive past it and you can ski around the resort on blues only and feel like you are covering some ground / different parts. Also some gentle reds to tackle if you feel up to it. Its also pretty easy to navigate around.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Montgenevre is excellent for beginners - good snow record and some long, wide greens that means you can ski from the high points once you've got some confidence. You won't have the minerals to cross over to Souze D'Oulx next door and its a resort I wouldn't recommend beginners anyway especially if conditions are scratchy . . .one thing with Montgenevre is the night life is a bit lacking / limited - most of the accom is also apartments which may or may not be your thing. . .
In terms of proximity to Spain, Isola 2000 might be worth investigating - never been but have heard it can be worth a punt . . .
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@luigi Cervinia sounds awesome. We took the cable car from Zermatt to Trockener Stegg for a snow day a few months back and it would be cool to ski down to it from the other side. Re: Courmayer, I'll be seeing Mont Blanc from Charmonix anyway. I'm glad to hear the Italian alps are different to the French.
@Orange200 Grandvalira is on the list now. Spain is one of my favourite places in Europe, particularly in winter, and I want to go to Toulouse too. Sounds like an awesome trip.
@Onnem thank you for wepowder. I was looking at onthesnow but wepowder looks much better. Is there a way to see current snow cover? Would you recommend another French resort after Chamonix over an Italian resort?
Should I consider another French resort after Chamonix? I've heard good things about Les Gets and Les Arcs but it's harder to get to Milan by public transport than the Aosta valley.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@cadell, the Aosta valley is easy to travel to from Chamonix, so makes sense. More than enough skiing to suit your needs.
Good to try skiing in Italy, rather than another French area, just for the different vibe and food. I think Les Arcs and Les Gets are both very good. They are parts of 2 of the biggest ski circuits in France.
Better to leave those in the hope you’ll return some time, with far more experience, to get the best out of them.
You should get enough of a feel for a serious high alpine area in France in the Chamonix valley in January! I like it but it’s fair to say it divides opinion more than most. Will be interested to read what you think of it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We ended up going to Chamonix for 3 days, Pila for 3 days and Cervinia for 1 day.
Cervinia is my favourite, Chamonix has a big, beautiful town but it's hard for beginners and Pila is good for beginners and good value but not as impressive as Cervinia.
It was sunny at Cervinia and it was beautiful. The longs runs were fun, it had good progression and there was some awesome apres. We also went there last and were better skiers by then. It was nice to ski all different runs instead of smashing the same ones all day like we did earlier in the week. We could quickly check the runs on fatmap and then generally go anywhere. There's two runs took about 20 mins to get down and 20 mins to get back up. It was great.
Pila was nice. We stayed in Aosta for very cheap and had some good value meals. No snow in town though because it's in the valley. We had 2 days of cloud and 1 day of sun and the trees were beautiful in the cloud. It felt like a different resort when the sun was out. There's longer runs but they're not as fun as Cervinia. We had a delicious lunch with pasta, cheese and wine for 14 euros. Not much of an apres. There's good progression but some of the reds were steep. Fatmap helped a lot. We had a lesson and my partner liked it, not so much me. My partner got the hang of it and was skiing better than me. Some of the lifts are very old and take about 10 mins for a short elevation. We were on the lifts for 40 mins of a 2h lesson. We found some faster ones when we got more confident.
Chamonix was interesting. we were only there for 3 nights and got cloud. I guess you're better off going for longer to catch some sun. We went to Les Planards for a quick refresher when we got in late the first day and it was a waste of time. Long lines and slow lifts. We went to Brevent the second day and there was a nice green there, better than Sierra Nevada. I got bored and moved onto the blue there and it was beautiful but steep and difficult. At least it was wide but I still spend most of the day falling down the steep bits. My partner stuck to the same green run all day and yelled "I can ski!" at the end of the day. She turned out be right.
Le Tour was fun. There's an awesome green run there, long, good steepness and fast lifts. We then went up to the easiest blue, Liason Balme and it was stunning. It was my partners first blue run and there was no visibility at the top. I'm glad we had a thin buff the day before for the icy chair lift but we upgraded to a thicker one at the end of the day. Beautiful long, gradual, narrow run. Every time we swung around to the valley the cloud cleared a bit and we could see. Some slightly steeper parts made it fun. At the end of the day we tried Les Esserts and it wrecked me. Long, narrow steeps highlighted that I didn't know how to ski well. It was also the end of the day with poorer visibility and more fatigue. My partner did better than me on only her second blue. I checked all our runs on FatMap going forwards after this day. It's not conclusive but I like to know what I'm up against.
We should have got a second lesson in Chamonix. I'd do 2h every second day personally. If I was going back to Chamonix as a beginner I would go to Les Houches then Le Tour then Brevent but Cervinia would be my pick for beginners. Pila isn't as good but it's good value.
There was no apres in Brevent or Chamonix, maybe because it was cloudy. There's a nightclub in Chamonix but it wasn't our vibe. Nice bars and live music. Aosta had excellent food for a good price. A few bars but they're quiet. Cervinia's apres was pumping. I didn't know what apres was before we went there. People there said the apres at Les Arcs is wicked.
Thanks for the tips @PeakyB.
Thanks @luigi, Bergfex worked well.
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