 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Snowheads, a good friend of mine just had an unlucky accident and now he's having a rod and pins put in his spine  . I've decided it's time to invest in a back protector but there seems to be a lot of choice. I understand the difference level 1 and level 2 but I don't really have any reference for what a bad crash would do.
Im a skier and do a reasonable amount of off piste and enjoy a mogul or two so I would say I ski quite hard when I get to. I don't have any particular back issues generally.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I survived a horrendous back-breaking motorcycle accident some years ago - 9 crushed/fractured vertebrae, 11 broken ribs, some of them multiple so collapsed lungs etc. and lots of other internal damage. I had flown upside-down back-first into the crash barrier at something over 100mph (take-off speed). My leathers had a built-in back protector which thankfully saved my life by transferring a lot of the impact round the ribcage.
So, back protector good. Right.
I don't wear a back protector when skiing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@barbourossa, Dianese brand have been making them since late 1970s from my understanding, with that extensive expertise it would be my first consideration for a decent specification and product.
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is your average punter skier going fast enough or even riding terrain where a back protector is valid. Yes dropping cliff bands and ripping through trees but pootling down red and blue runs?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
is your average punter skier going fast enough or even riding terrain where a back protector is valid. Yes dropping cliff bands and ripping through trees but pootling down red and blue runs?
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That probably describes me. In my case, I'm mostly worried about somebody crashing in to me from behind. When I needed a new backpack last year I bought one of the Ortovox ones that lets you slide in a back protector into the lining. No idea if it would actually help me in such a situation but it felt a bit like a no-brainer: no obvious downside and potentially massive upside in the (probably extremely unlikely given my sedate skiing!) case that somebody smashes in to me at high speed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I use Forcefield Pro L2K which I also use on a motorcycle. If i didn't have a motorcycle I would definitely go for some sort of vest. Do go to a shop and try a few. I still haven't found shorts fitting well after trying a few main brands.
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@Baron von chippy,
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pootling down red and blue runs
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is where the danger can lie. My brother-in-law was very badly injured by a hit-and-run skier or snowboarder (probably the latter, from the injuries) coming from behind him. He was slowly skiing back on his own at the end of the day, on an easy run, and was found abandoned/unconscious by another passing skier. I bought a back protector after that.
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@Hurtle, never thought of that to be honest but still doesn't seem enough risk.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Baron von chippy, Many people don't see the risk as being high enough.
There is a risk that you will never dent your helmet or bump your back protector though so why bother wearing them...
Take motorbike riding for an example. Some people ride in shorts and t-shirt with a helmet and gloves as they are required by law. Some in full protective gear which is absolutely not required. But it has been worn for so long that it has become the norm.
Why do skiers often wear helmets now? There is no law to make it happen. It is becoming the norm.
Ultimately protecting your back and head is quite sensible and is not exactly hard work. The cost is negligible compared to a single holiday let alone multiple holidays.
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@barbourossa, There are plenty of brands out there. If you are going to wear one look at the higher level of protection as if you are going to do it you might as well do it properly. You should be able to find data on impact protection online for the different manufacturers.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 15-01-24 11:04; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Legend., Its not the cost. its the weight, not comfortable and the additional sweating they cause.
Using your take on cautiousness do you wear elbow, shoulder and knee pads?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Baron von chippy,
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Using your take on cautiousness do you wear elbow, shoulder and knee pads?
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A back injury is liable to be life-threatening or life-changing, injury to the body parts you mention less likely to be so.
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@Legend., Its not the cost. its the weight, not comfortable and the additional sweating they cause.
Using your take on cautiousness do you wear elbow, shoulder and knee pads?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Its not the cost. its the weight, not comfortable and the additional sweating they cause.
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This is what attracted me to the 'Ortovox backback with a slide-in back protector' approach. The additional weight is negligible versus a regular backpack (which I acknowledge not everybody wears but, if you do, it's immaterial). What I don't know is how much protection I am giving up by using this potentially more compromised approach?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Baron von chippy,
Few things...
1) My cautiousness? Have I said I wear one? No. Does that mean I cannot see the logic of wearing one? No. Sometimes wish I made the extra effort to do so and not considering it is a bit daft I would say, especially to those who wear a helmet to protect the other area of the central nervous system.
2) The cost I was referring to was when the OP was asking about lvl 1 and 2. The difference between them is not very large. If you are doing it you might as well get the slightly thicker one IMO.
3) The spinal cord which does not extend into the knees and elbows, it's not a comparison worth making.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Baron von chippy,
And
4) Which ones have you used and not used whilst skiing and for what period of time have you used each one? Wondering how in depth you experience of them is to judge?
5) Did you find that after a period of time (say 10 days) that you were less aware you were wearing it? Again, how did this compare between manufacturers and styles?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't wear a back protector but my 8-year old daughter does. Mostly not to prevent injuries from her falling, but in case of some out of control kid - or worse - adult should crash into her. She doesn't find it uncomfortable or at least doesn't complain, does as she's told.
Actually I've too thought about getting one. I have worn a POC vest-style protector a few times when MTB:ing and haven't found it uncomfortable at all or it to generate excessive amounts of additional sweating. And if we're talking about lift assisted skiing, weight shouldn't be of importance. Think it should be OK as an additional layer. Maybe just use a bit lighter mid layer if using a vest protector? Or leave the mid-layer altogether if spring-skiing in above freezing temps so it's just base - vest - jacket.
Elbow, shoulder, knee pads? No chance, those are OK for playing ice hockey or for ski racers if one hits the gates. But as a recreational skier there's a line somewhere between wearing no protection at all <-> full on Batsuit at the other end of the spectrum and mine goes at cautious "yes" for a back plate but "no" for everything else after that.
I'm not saying everyone should wear one, just that it's not a bad idea to have one and probably not that uncomfortable as one might think. For each his own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Had a decent fall in Wengen a few years back (without a protector) on a steep timed run - got 'squished' in the compression and had to take a tactical fall as I was out of control - ended up like a turtle with my legs in the air spinning on my back - it did ache a bit after I eventually stopped in deeper snow but no other dramas . . . .
Since then I've been using a Dakine back protector that sits in a sleeve in my 14l Poacher pack; the backpack is basically a glorified camel back water carrier anyway so I don't really know I'm carrying it and its lift friendly. No idea whether its actually effective yet (thank god) but it gives me a semblance of confidence as well as being practical (I can carry stuff).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have a friend who is a director of a ski school. Very much an expert. He strongly advocates back protectors for all, particularly children. He is not a 'cotton wool' merchant - just VERY experienced and wise.
POC VPD, Scott D30 vests. You do not notice that you have them on.
Wear a backpack skiing? Just slip a VPD back panel into the hydration slot. They are 20.00gbp on ebay. You do not notice that they are there.
DONE.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Legend. wrote: |
| ... 3) The spinal cord which does not extend into the knees and elbows, it's not a comparison worth making. |
He was asking if you applied the logic you professed to all risks, or just this specific one. No comparisons involved at all.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| phil_w wrote: |
| Legend. wrote: |
| ... 3) The spinal cord which does not extend into the knees and elbows, it's not a comparison worth making. |
He was asking if you applied the logic you professed to all risks, or just this specific one. No comparisons involved at all. |
I know. I expanded upon it explaining why a person may way a spine protector and not knee pads. Knee pads and elbow pads had not been mentioned by anyone else, myself included, there was no need to raise them in this discussion. Thank you though.
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the Grom went onto boxes with his park board after a long absence from the park, and interestingly he voluntarily wore his POC backprotector, and also his POC mtb knee pads and Forcefield VPD shorts - which protect hips in particular. He had a great session and hurt his....arm. Oh well.
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| valais2 wrote: |
I have a friend who is a director of a ski school. Very much an expert. He strongly advocates back protectors for all, particularly children. He is not a 'cotton wool' merchant - just VERY experienced and wise.
POC VPD, Scott D30 vests. You do not notice that you have them on.
Wear a backpack skiing? Just slip a VPD back panel into the hydration slot. They are 20.00gbp on ebay. You do not notice that they are there.
DONE. |
The D30 stuff is incredible. I've not got a back protector but have crash pants and then bought a shirt with it on the shoulders, collar bone and ribs after cracking my ribs one year. You don't even notice it's on in terms of weight, movement etc. I've had pretty bad falls where you'd expect to hurt whilst wearing them and never had an issue (actually had one that needed a new helmet but my body was absolutely fine...incredible given the dint in the top of the helmet having tomahawked down a piste following being hit out of nowhere).
If I was after a back protector that'd be my first port of call.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@paulhinch, exactly
and interesting re 'hit out of nowhere'.
I have had that on more than one occasion at choke points. Bloody annoying. And a back protector is important in those situations....
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I've worn a back protector for a long time. With d30 style materials, don't even really notice it.
I have a poc vest - I think the vest style works well to make sure it's in the right place and is comfortable.
My kids have had poc and evoc ones which were good. One of them now has a sweet protection race vest which also seems decent.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| valais2 wrote: |
@paulhinch, exactly
and interesting re 'hit out of nowhere'.
I have had that on more than one occasion at choke points. Bloody annoying. And a back protector is important in those situations.... |
Yeah. It was actually coming down towards the Folie in Val D'Isere where the green steepens down to lifts and someone just blindsided me (in fairness it was a kid who lost control, complete accident). I must have looked a state as a few people stopped to check on me but I was fine.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Slytech foam is the way forward according to my son, super light, flexible, but goes hard on impact.
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@doddsie, Assume this is the same stuff a GForm? My son uses the shin and ankle pad sleeves for football - much better than standard pads - lighter and more comfy. Considering some baselayer shorts for myself to protect hips and coccyx
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You know it makes sense.
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| Legend. wrote: |
@Baron von chippy,
And
4) Which ones have you used and not used whilst skiing and for what period of time have you used each one? Wondering how in depth you experience of them is to judge?
5) Did you find that after a period of time (say 10 days) that you were less aware you were wearing it? Again, how did this compare between manufacturers and styles? |
is this bit where you think you catch me out?
I've got several in different styles. I ride MTB uplift all the time and once upon a time raced DH. I've got a fair amount of experience wearing them. I now only wear the Fox raceframe impact roost deflector. slips over everything else and isn't tight on my body. The risk of injury is considerably higher on my bike than skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Recently got this mouthful of a product: Forcefield Pro Shirt X-V 2 Air Body Armour and so far so good. Hardly notice it once skiing, easy to forget it’s even there until you sit down etc. Holds the relevant protection in place nicely and the pads can be removed to machine wash the vest.
Probably a bit overkill for most but I’m not taking any chances after a bad fall into my shoulder last year which took months to recover from. Also have a friend who had a family member suffer a broken back from a fall on a flat.
I think they do lesser (ie fewer pads) and greater versions too depending on what you fancy. I chose this because it seemed to be the sweet spot between too much ie very noticeable and too little ie pointless.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Baron von chippy wrote: |
| Legend. wrote: |
@Baron von chippy,
And
4) Which ones have you used and not used whilst skiing and for what period of time have you used each one? Wondering how in depth you experience of them is to judge?
5) Did you find that after a period of time (say 10 days) that you were less aware you were wearing it? Again, how did this compare between manufacturers and styles? |
is this bit where you think you catch me out?
I've got several in different styles. I ride MTB uplift all the time and once upon a time raced DH. I've got a fair amount of experience wearing them. I now only wear the Fox raceframe impact roost deflector. slips over everything else and isn't tight on my body. The risk of injury is considerably higher on my bike than skiing. |
Not at all. But is has an impact on your advice/opinion. I would imagine risk of injury is considerably higher (some of the downhill MTB racing looks absolutely mental to me!).
Personally I wear them for motorbiking and have previously worn one for skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a Dainese wave body armour for the motorbike which has a back protector. I wear it everytime I go out skiing and boarding, (s'funny though but I only wear the back protector on track days now). I've had an out of control beginner slam into me which did no damage at all to me, he was in a bit of pain though.
I swear it's saved me multiple times as I've had some big crashes, all my own fault. I think the shoulder protection has saved me a broken collarbone at least once (I've done that on the bike too) but I've now removed the elbow pads as they don't fit under my new jacket.
But it really is horses for courses, if I was just cruising about not really trying to learn or push myself I probably wouldn't wear it because it is quite uncomfortable. The big relief at the end of the day is not so much getting out of my ski boots but getting the blooming armour off!
I don't use apps like skitracks anymore, but I've seen 30mph quite often when I had it turned on one holiday and that's fast enough to break bones. On an empty piste it's easily possible to exceed that.
I don't use it on the MTB purely because it's so uncomfortable...and hot.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| javindo wrote: |
Recently got this mouthful of a product: Forcefield Pro Shirt X-V 2 Air Body Armour and so far so good. Hardly notice it once skiing, easy to forget it’s even there until you sit down etc. Holds the relevant protection in place nicely and the pads can be removed to machine wash the vest.
Probably a bit overkill for most but I’m not taking any chances after a bad fall into my shoulder last year which took months to recover from. Also have a friend who had a family member suffer a broken back from a fall on a flat.
I think they do lesser (ie fewer pads) and greater versions too depending on what you fancy. I chose this because it seemed to be the sweet spot between too much ie very noticeable and too little ie pointless. |
I bought this Demon upper body armour from Absolute Snow a few years ago (and these impact shorts ) and despite looking a bit like Sam Smith at The Brit Awards, I wouldn't go back to not wearing any protective gear.
Absolute Snow have as good a range as anyone I've found when it comes to the protective stuff, but I also have a bog standard Dainese back protector that looks a bit like this that I found in TK Maxx a few years ago. It was a little bit big for me, so I should probably try and find it a new home at some point.
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