During Christmas week I stayed on piste as the snow off was poor.
I asked kolkie to video me. I was aiming to do short rounded turns. The snow was ok, not great (previously icy but softer that day). I was on 180cm 93mm skis.
Any comments and suggestions are welcome. My own: much less dynamic than I thought, not enough pressure at the beginning of the turn (though I was trying).
Your extension at the start of the turn is quick and quite vertically up rather than a lateral move, so in the first part (half of) the turn you are quite "light" on your skis and during this phase you blend in a lot of rotation. As a result the skis start to grip the snow late in the turn and at that point your line straightens up a bit, so your turn shape isn't consistently round. None of that is a problem is that is your intention, and that's a good approach to skiing steeper terrain with good speed control, but if you wanted a higher performance short radius turn you could think about the movement you make at the start of the turn (not so "poppy" and more lateral, allowing your feet to move outside your centre of mass so your skis find earlier grip). Once you changed the setup phase of the turn you'd have more options to manage the shape of the rest of the turn.
Also bear in mind you aren't on skis with a short turn radius (cf Joshua's skis in the above video)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
If you take quite a bit more speed you will be able to generate the forces you need to get more dynamic turns. Maybe also try shortening your poles a little to reduce the popping up effect.
Try the swords drill to get the feeling of staying lower in the transition.
Your extension at the start of the turn is quick and quite vertically up rather than a lateral move, so in the first part (half of) the turn you are quite "light" on your skis and during this phase you blend in a lot of rotation. As a result the skis start to grip the snow late in the turn and at that point your line straightens up a bit, so your turn shape isn't consistently round. None of that is a problem is that is your intention, and that's a good approach to skiing steeper terrain with good speed control, but if you wanted a higher performance short radius turn you could think about the movement you make at the start of the turn (not so "poppy" and more lateral, allowing your feet to move outside your centre of mass so your skis find earlier grip). Once you changed the setup phase of the turn you'd have more options to manage the shape of the rest of the turn.
Also bear in mind you aren't on skis with a short turn radius (cf Joshua's skis in the above video)
Rob, this is very insightful, thank you! You've almost certainly identified the reason for how I'm skiing - I'm translating stuff that works offpiste (especially in steep terrain, which I often ski) to the piste, and doing it on skis with relatively high radius. I should have added that I was on a red run but without much room to get much higher speed.
When doing bigger turns, I think I'm much better at lateral movement and carving the entire turn. Still work to do to get the ski to bite the same way in shorter turns.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
red 27 wrote:
Heel push and A-frame - perhaps related. Inside leg is too inactive
Thank you for commenting. I guess I'm looking at the underlying causes and how to deal with them - for instance I know I'm A framing (maybe less than in previous years, maybe not), but hard to get rid of it.
Interesting comment on the inside leg. There's been a recent lively discussion on another BzK thread which included a mention that the outside ski / leg should be doing the majority of the work. Offpiste I ski far more evenly weighted, but on piste I admit I never know how and how much to focus on the inside leg.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@swskier, thanks! I'll look at that carefully (and then rent a pair of piste skis with a small radius and find a nice grippy blue slope - should improve my turns!)
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
snowheid wrote:
If you take quite a bit more speed you will be able to generate the forces you need to get more dynamic turns. Maybe also try shortening your poles a little to reduce the popping up effect.
Try the swords drill to get the feeling of staying lower in the transition.
Thanks! What's the swords drill? Strangely, most of the time I'm pretty low in the transition, not sure what happened here.
(Poles already pretty short I thought, 120 cm - I'm 179).
Speed is an interesting one, it does make things easier but ideally I would be able to work on / refine the movements at lower speed, too.
Interesting comment on the inside leg. There's been a recent lively discussion on another BzK thread which included a mention that the outside ski / leg should be doing the majority of the work. Offpiste I ski far more evenly weighted, but on piste I admit I never know how and how much to focus on the inside leg.
That makes sense... Perhaps on piste you still ski with a fair bit of weight on the inside leg and so struggle to get it 'out of the way' early in the turn. This causes the A-frame and also a slow initiation, which then leads to you needing to skid off speed with the tail push later in the turn
A distinct and conscious active flex of the inside leg might help?
I'm (obv) not an instructor - I only comment as I ski like you and have struggled for years to make progress from this stage
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Well, you very nearly have it. Looking at the off piste...
The A frame thing is obvious. Especially off piste using both skis together is more efficient, and you must load both skis in deeper snow anyway. It looks like the stem is happening after the jump/rotation (see below), so you're not doing it for turn initiation.
You're jumping to start turns; that first turn initiation looks particularly aggressive. Some skiers "bounce" in powder, but their action is more sinusoidal, smoother and longer, and they don't rotate with it. What [I think] they do is push down into the powder, then "bounce" on the reaction to that whilst banking the skis through the turn. That's not what you're doing. You're also rotating a lot at the start of the turn.
The initiation issues look like you're not confident that your skis will turn you, so you're making absolutely sure. If it was me I'd practice on easy slopes (even fridges) because speed obscures the details, and if you can do it slowly [especially on plastic!] you can definitely do it.
Someone like rob@ could no doubt help accelerate the process, which I think would be quick.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@horizon, As always, I will qualify my thoughts by stating that I am not an Instructor and am happy to be corrected on anything that I say which is misleading.
Thanks to skimottaret's advice, I find it revealing to freeze-frame my way through the clip....and this is what I see (which matches what was said above).
IMV. I see a competent skier, that is skiing a bit Old School, with Up-Unweighting, but with great balance and good arm carriage. Then when you posted the clip of you skiing Off Piste - it seems to me the style On Piste was a direct carry over from that (which I suspect is where you prefer to be).
A-Frame: Yes, I see a bit of that going on....but the fact that it doesn't screw you up when skiing Off Piste IMO means either you don't do it there, or it's not generally too pronounced.
U/Hill Ski Tip Lead: If you freeze frame your way through the clip (eg. @ 11secs), you will see quite a lot of daylight between your legs
V-Shape: On some turns, you will see the ski tips slightly diverging ie. wider than the tails (eg. @ 5 secs).....which I think is a result of the A-Frame causing the skis to track on different radii
Up-Unweighting/Thigh steering: I think you have strong steering at the end of the turn, which creates a platform to launch into the next turn...you can see the snow being sprayed at the end of each turn, as the platform is created.
What I have found helpful
- At the end of the turn, as the weight transfers away from turning ski to the U/Hill ski, pull the now unweighted ski back (leave the Tip on the snow while unweighting the Tail) and roll the knee downhill (the knee of the new turning ski will automatically follow a fraction of a second later).
IME. This does 3 things: a) As you are starting the turn, by rolling the knee of what will become the U/Hill ski out of the way, it helps reduce the A-Frame. (b) By pulling back what will become the U/Hill ski, it stops it getting too far ahead. (c) Achieves early weight transfer.
- In order to stop the Up-unweighting, think of skiing under a low ceiling. Take your lowest position (eg @ 14 sec) - and instead of allowing the force of the turn to Up Unweight, stay flexed (under that low ceiling) and let the knees absorb the pressure, like going over an invisible bump. If you freeze framed at that exact moment, it would look like you were in "the toilet position". The legs then extend away from the body.
Here are some videos that might help show what I'm trying to get across.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 17-01-24 23:07; edited 4 times in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@horizon, if I could ski like that off piste I'd not worry about my turns on an easy red slope! But then I'm not a perfectionist.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@horizon I think it's time to start snowboarding
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@horizon, with friends like that, who needs enemies
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
