 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All, I have booked accommodation in Arc 1600 the first week in February next year. Never been before so looking for adcvice!
Firstly I intend on getting the train there, to Bourg. The main reason for choosing Arc 1600! Any advice on train travel there would be welcome, from the research I have done it seems Eurostar do not release tickets or info about the Snow train until late summer, and based on last year it may not even be running in February. So considering Eurostar to Lille or Paris and then SNCF, any advice on the route would be welcome.
Secondly, just wondered how easy it is to get from Arc 1600 to La Plagne? Looks like its a bit of a pain on ski, I assume there would be some kind of bus that would go from 1600 to the Vallandry area so you could get the Vanoise Express across to La Plagne? I can't find any info on buses that do this though? Again any advice welcome, I would prefer 20 to 30 minutes on a bus to get to the Vanoise express than 2 hours of lifts and a circuitous ski.
Thirdly, just general advice on the ski area, I am an intermediate but prefer the less steep red runs, which runs or area would be best for me?
Thank you in advance
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lots of train info here: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=166241 - and https://www.seat61.com/index.html is good for booking horizons etc.
I've done a few trips by train - I tend to get a late EuroStar on the Friday night and stay in Paris, then get the first train down on the Saturday. It is doable in a day though (especially on the way back, as the time difference helps).
I recall that there is a bus from 1800 to Vallandry (and there are buses from 1600 to 1800) - we always stay at the Vallandry end though, so I'm sure others will have more of an idea. I think it's only 2 lifts to get across though; from the top of Arpette you can take a long blue all the way.
I think all the red runs above Vallandry were pretty nice last time we were there, quite wide and well groomed, and not steep. The Clair Blanc red from Arpette was absolutely horrible though.
(Coincidentally we will be in les Arcs the same week as you; I'm heading out for a few days elsewhere first, but will be heading back by train on the 8th.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@DHosking, I cannot answer your questions about the train. There are many more experienced train users here to answer that question.
Yes it is a bit of a pain to get to La Plagne. You have to get 2 lifts and a bit of skiing to the Vanoise express. The route are: cachette to arpette and cruise down to Vallandry or Cachette then all the way down Belvedere to the Vallandry lift, take that up and ski down to Peisey. This route can be a little trickeir to find. Both routes take about 45 minutes to an hour.
You can get a bus from 1600 to 1800 which takes about 20 mnutes. Another bus will take you to Peisey. These busses are not very frequent. If the schedules line up for you then it may be possible to do it in an hour, but I've never done it or contemplated it. It will be a lot more hassle than just skiing across.
There are a number of gentle reds in the Vallandry sector and by the time you get there you may just give up on the idea of going to La Plagne. In the last couple years I've skied about 20 days a season in Les Arcs and haven't botherd going over to La Plagne at all even though I've had a lift pass that would allow me to do so. There is just so much good skiing in Les Arcs. Are you going to meet someone? If so where in La Plagne are you planning to go?
Where are you planning to stay in Les Arcs? If you are planning to stay in Plan Devin it may be easier to get the buss to 1800 anyway rather than walking up all the stairs to the lifts, many people do and get off at the Alpin Jardin lift.
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Bus time tables are on the paradiski app. We used them abit thus year and they seemed okay. Basically 20 mins between sectors an then a change so if going a way depends on timings.
We never went over to la plange as more than enough in les arcs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you very much for the responses.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I don’t think it’s too much hassle on the Les Arcs side to get to the Vallandry express. Not enough to warrant catching a bus. The double decker cable car across the valley is a pretty impressive piece of engineering, with fine views, including a part glass floor on the lower deck.
Once across the La Plagne side, there are rather slow tedious old chairlifts for a while. However, the area has plenty of wide, cruisy blues and reds, which sound like they may suit you.
Overall, I prefer Les Arcs but would usually ski about a third of my time around La Plagne, on a typical trip.
A downside of La Plagne for me is that the piste back to the Vanoise Express is long, busy at peak times and often icy. That wouldn’t put me off going there though.
Vallandry has some good reds through the trees, such as Aigle, useful if visibility is poor.
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Two lifts and a nice ski is "a pain" to get over to La Plagne... mmmm.
Certainly not 2 hours.
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Though this season there were 13 navettes between Arc1800 and Peisey a day with a frequency of about one an hour. It was actually possible to use the navettes to get to the Vanoise Express for 9:45 (https://en.peisey-vallandry.com/shuttles.html). The 8:25 from 1600 would get you to Villards at 8:50 then there was timetabled an 8:55 from Villards to the hotel Vanoise where a short ski down would get you to the lift. You could do it in 80 minutes. The next poosible times by navette would be 10:30 and 12:10.
Things may be different next year, however. Timetables do change. Until recently there were only a couple navettes between Peisey and 1800 a day. I suspect this was mainly to allow those who wanted to nordique ski to get upto the cross country area at Pont Baudin.
Personally, I would rather ski across - much less hassle and significantly quicker. We usually use the Belvedere and the Grizzly, coming down Combe if it is open or Ecureuiles to get warmed up. And then of course abandoning the trip to La Plagne altogether as these pistes are so much fun.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Can you ski Belevedere all the way from the top of Mont-Blanc 4 to the bottom of Grizzley?
Would the last section be very flat and require a lot of poling?
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@DHosking, no poling is required unless the snow is heavy, but you do need to get a move on from quite high up and keep to the left. Otherwise only a couple pushes are necessary. It's no problem.
The only problem is the piste has no artificial snow making and can be closed late in the season.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Can you ski Belevedere all the way from the top of Mont-Blanc 4 to the bottom of Grizzley?
Would the last section be very flat and require a lot of poling?
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Pretty sure you can. From memory it's a long flattish bit, which is a bit boring, but is consistently downhill.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Shakira wrote: |
| Quote: |
Can you ski Belevedere all the way from the top of Mont-Blanc 4 to the bottom of Grizzley?
Would the last section be very flat and require a lot of poling?
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Pretty sure you can. From memory it's a long flattish bit, which is a bit boring, but is consistently downhill. |
Am I in in a minority in saying that I have NEVER been bored on skis (in almost 40 years of skiing and averaging over 60 days a season for at least the past 15 years). 
Challenged (and maybe tired) from poling or skating long, flat sections? Yes. But never bored in the mountains...
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Personally I'd aim to go up Derby to ski down to Vanoise, rather than going all the way into Vallandry.
It's certainly worth doing for the experience, however you do have to take 3 lifts, with very little skiing between them, before you even get to heart of La Plagne region. There is some lovely skiing there so is worth it.
Going back can be whacky races with people rushing to get the Vanoise Express back over - at the very latest you need to be planning return from 3pm from Les Arcs
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Personally I'd aim to go up Derby to ski down to Vanoise, rather than going all the way into Vallandry.
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To get to Derby, you need to take an extra lift - Arpette, Carreley, Transarc or Charmettoger. You can ski past the bottom of Derby all the way to Peisey.
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Going back can be whacky races with people rushing to get the Vanoise Express back over - at the very latest you need to be planning return from 3pm from Les Arcs
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Starting thinking of returning about 3 pm from La Plagne. The Arpette in Bellecote can have huge queues but do not be tempted to take the Route des Bauche,. where there is perhaps a km of poling needed.
There is a slight rise of the piste as it crosses the Charmettoger piste which you need to take a run at and beware of skiers coming down Charmettoger and pedestrians walking along the snowshoe path.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You can catch a late EuroStar on Friday, stay in Paris overnight, then take a train to Arc 1600 the next day; check for buses from 1800 to Vallandry, and there are some easy red runs in Vallandry that you might enjoy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@johnE, oops yes I was forgetting where Derby was in my head! And my post should have read planning return TO Les Arcs or FROM La Plagne
Clearly not with it
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Boris, I thought you meant grizzly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@johnE, Like you , I'd do Cachette and Arpette (the equivalent from 1950 / 2000 is Bois d L'ours and Arpette) then Belvedere all the way. 15-20 mins from top of Arpette for an intermediate.
But you'll only want to / need to do it once as Les Arcs will have more than enough to keep you busy for the rest of the week. (if as a first timer you want to go over more often, you've booked the wrong resort....) Wouldn't bother swapping that gentle warm up ski for a Navette. Shudder.
Done the trains many times, probably 20-30 trips each way, and probably all combinations. Each has its benefits and occasional distraction. A few questions to consider: Where are you starting out from? Can you do the Friday night - or is it an early Saturday start? Are you taking your own gear? Are you going as a family with multiple ankle biters? HOw early do you like to book? All of which could sway you decision.
As above, the train threads on here (and man in seat 61) are full of useful, and pretty much up-to-date info. But if you can clarify more specific details, I can give the pros and cons of each.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi, I am on my own, no gear other than boots. I could so a Friday train to Paris and then train to Bourg, however would also consider the non stop ski train from St Pancras to Bourg if its running as that seems easy. Not sure what the price comparison is between the two? I would probably prefer the more direct easier route if the price compares to a stop over in Paris Equally I would also consider and early start on Saturday.
Ideally it would be good to be able to get to Arc 1600 in time to sort out lift pass and ski hire on the Saturday afternoon so I cam hit the slopes first thing on Sunday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@DHosking, So the "direct" train this year, you actually changed trains at Lille - but it is only a platform change so very easy, and a 50 min layover - time to get out of the station and look around if you wanted to. But as you say, who knows if they will run it again this year, and even if they do, if it will continue until your February trip.
As you are alone, then the shlep across Paris if doing a Eurostar <> SNCF will be very easy - 2 stops on the metro.
An early start from St Pancras will enable you to get to Bourg in one day - but to make the connections, you should allow 1 hour transfer time minimum (to account for potential delays). To catch the ~ 12:20 from Gare de Lyon, you'll get the 8:00 from St Pancras. BUT it won't be until about 6.15pm into Bourg: then you have the funicular (included in your train ticket as part of their 'green' initiatives) up to 1600. So you'll be unlikely to sort ski hire that night.
( Note - you can book your ski-pass online, and if you don't have a previous paradiski 'carte', get it sent to your UK address: so that's not a concern)
The previous train to Bourg will leave at about 10:00 from Gare de Lyon (Bourg by 3:!5) . But there are no London connections to get you into Paris in time to catch that - even the 06:15 won't get you to Gare de Nord until 9:50.
IF you go the night before, then there are a few hotels very close to Gare de Lyon that are reasonably priced, and you'll be able to catch the even earlier / earliest trains to Bourg - IIRC we stayed one time in the Mecure above the Gare, and got a train about 7 am which got us into Bourg by midday.
And there are three or 4 others (which are not necessarily direct where you might have to change at Lyon and / or Chambery) that will get you in early afternoon - early enough to be able to ski that afternoon - which will be a 'bonus' included on your weekly pass.
Eurostar tickets are usually available 6 months ahead, SNCF 3 months - although I'd suggest creating an SNCF account, and subscribing to their 'warning' emails, as sometimes they release them in batches, so they could come out a little earlier.
It can be a bit stressful booking one ticket and then hoping that the others will become available. But to get decent Eurostar prices, book as far ahead as possible.
The advantage of the direct train is of course, single ticketing. IF they are doing it this winter, then again, sign up for email notifications because it's never quite sure if / when they are going to release them, and they did sell out v. quickly last year.
As for prices - have a look through the threads, and you will see that you can get a "single country" Inter-rail pass which covers the cost of any journey on 3 separate days in a month ( ie your out and back portions), that can work out cheaper than booking direct (and allows a discounted Eurostar ticket too - but it doesn't cover the whole of the Eurostar costs)
Or, we have the annual SNCF travel card which gives good discounts on that leg of the journey. Book the Eurostar far enough ahead - say £39 each way, then it's about €75-90 each way for the second part of the journey, again booking early enough.
First class on the SNCF is worth it for a very small upgrade (€5 ish?), but travelling on a Saturday does not get you lounge access or free food as it does during the week. Bah.
The direct train IIRC was about £130 each way last year - so the costs are very similar. Your only issue is that it returns on the Sunday morning - well, it did last year - so you'll need to book a night in Bourg ( Base Camp Lodge it the place to go) or an extra night in 1600 - it does give you that extra day's skiing though!
(FYI We went out on the "direct" on the Saturday, and then back on the Saturday SNCF > Eurostar last year as we needed to be home . But that's certainly doable as you have to book each leg separately).
This is a lot of information, and I know it all sounds very complicated. But that's because there's so many options: it isn't difficult (honest!) once you get the spreadsheet out and narrow down what you really want. Feel free to come back with other questions! And enjoy the ski over to La Plagne!!
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Great, thank you for the qdvice.
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FAQ
