 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
Started boarding beginning of 2023, I did several lessons at snow centre before I went out to Lech for first time for a week and a few more though the rest of the year and will be going to Les Menuires in Feb.
Still put myself in the beginner to lower-inter class even though they passed me though L5, no real problems getting from top to bottom upright.
When I am in the snow center I was using 154 rental (Head) boards but when I went on holiday a friend lent me his board an Endeavor Guerilla 159W board and put on a set of Union Force bindings.
http://www.snowdb.com/catalog/endeavor/2009/guerilla
I am thinking is way too large for me. Im 5'7", 80kg and 265 boot. When i start going its stable but hard to get it to turn as quick as I want and far harder than when im on the shorter rental boards ive used before.
I believe his idea was if you can ride the oversized board then anything else should be easier.
I am looking at some other boards, im mainly just in for a general ride no tricks etc.
I do have a budget window and ive seen a few board come up near to me that could be options around the £200-250 ish 2nd hand mark.
Burton Instigator Snowboard 155
Bataleon Fun.Kink 157
Endeavor Live 158
Any help apreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's true a longer board will be a bit slower to turn than a shorter than a shorter version of the same board. However, shape and stiffness arguably effect how quick a board turns even more than length.
Most board manufacturers do suggest sizes based on weight, so check their websites to see if the sizing works for you. That said, as a beginner you probably want to err on the shorter side.
For a beginner I'd actually advise renting. As the kind of board you want as a beginner - flexible, shorter, probably some kind of rocker or hybrid camber. Is perhaps not the kind of board you will what you want after a few weeks on snow. Owning is not really cheaper once you add ski carriage and maintenance, especially if you will be having to buy a new board soon anyway.
As a beginner the endeavour live is probably not the easiest ride. Bataleon is potentially ok, at 80kg you can even go one size shorter. Burton could be a good choice - bit of a banana so could even be a little too loose and playful.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Endeavor Guerilla 159W is also a wide board, nearly 1cm wider than the rentals ive used before, ive only got size 7.5 UK boots and his was more like 9-10.
True I get what you mean about rentals also at snow center they dont charge for board rental, im lucky last holiday and this holiday not having to pay to get it transported over.
Most are recommending between 155-159 depending on the sizes they do, the burton though is either 155 then 160.
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Don’t go wide unless you need to, which you don’t.
Wrt size just follow the manufacturer recs for weight and put yourself roughly in the middle of the range. You need to be able to bend the board to get the side cut to engage properly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’d agree with all of the above. Shorter, more flexi and definitely not wide.
The only thing I’d not go for is the battalion if it’s got their triple base thingy. The tech is supposed to stop you catching an edge, you need to learn not to do it yourself…….
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I wouldn't be going above a 157.
I've had boards between 155 and 157 over the years and I never noticed the size difference.
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@hang11, the wide was just because he leant me the board, my dinky feet do not suit it
@rogg, yes pretty much all of theirs have 3BT, my ethos as well all those aids at the start can lead to bad habits, auto vs manual etc
Others in the mix then is Capita Outerspace Living or Burton Instigator Camber (not regular flat).
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Don’t over think it - just get a good all round not too stiff board in the right size that you can get a good deal on, and have a look at reviews on places like angry snowboarder and the goodride.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The thing is you don't know what sort of riding you really enjoy and this will dictate the board you buy. After a few more days you might decide you want to just hit the park or you may experience pow and think goddaaaamn I want more of that! The board you buy will vary greatly. I also suggest renting for a little while longer. To be safe go for an all mountain mid flexing board around the 156 length but do check manufacturers weight guides.
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Don’t get hung up on length - the snowboard doesn’t know how tall you are, it knows how much you weigh so just size it on manufacturer specs which are nearly always weight and shoe size.
fwiw I’m 6’2” 95kg US12 and my boards range from a 156 powder board to 169w for my split. My daily drivers are 168w and 161 and the 168w rides shorter than the 161. I’ve had a 148cm board for powder days as well and that didn’t feel too short.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| hang11 wrote: |
Don’t get hung up on length - the snowboard doesn’t know how tall you are, it knows how much you weigh so just size it on manufacturer specs which are nearly always weight and shoe size.
fwiw I’m 6’2” 95kg US12 and my boards range from a 156 powder board to 169w for my split. My daily drivers are 168w and 161 and the 168w rides shorter than the 161. I’ve had a 148cm board for powder days as well and that didn’t feel too short. |
Hmm this doesn't seem right mate. 156 powder board for your weight thats miles off and 148cms board for powder are you refering to one of those short fatties? That would be a different weight range. I'm 86kgs my shortest board is a 156 but thats for freestyle, it struggles in pow. My freeride board is a 161 and I'm in the weight ranges (just about on the 156).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
156 powder board for your weight thats miles off
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Plenty of volume shifted boards with next to no tail and super wide. Capita spring break slush board for example only goes up to 151cm, and that would be ok for his weight.
For a traditional shaped board it is way too small, but that's just proving the point shape is lot more important than simply looking at a boards length and that's why you need to check the manufacturers guidelines.
As well as the kind of riding you are doing, there's also some personal preference involved. I'm 70kgs and my resort/freeride board is a 160cm stiff traditional camber board.
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All mountain, trad camber would be my view. And not longer than 157cm
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You know it makes sense.
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@wiigman, out of interest, why would you suggest trad camber?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gainz wrote: |
Hmm this doesn't seem right mate. 156 powder board for your weight thats miles off and 148cms board for powder are you refering to one of those short fatties? That would be a different weight range. |
Volume shifted with no tail and a lot of width under foot and in the nose - bigger surface area than a traditional style board. Which is my point about not getting hung up on length, admittedly at the more extreme end of the spectrum and unlikely to be a good daily driver
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Poster: A snowHead
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| ste_B wrote: |
| @wiigman, out of interest, why would you suggest trad camber? |
Some of the "banana" shapes are definitely more forgiving. So the argument by some is that they promote bad habits as you can "get away" with mistakes without catching your edge and you can easily skid turns. Trad camber is a lot less forgiving, so perhaps forces you into better habits. But perhaps also makes the learning process less fun.
But I think it's a little outdated view really. While I love my trad camber board, and it does have some advantages, there is no reason why you ever need to ride one. If I was going to buy a new all mountain board tomorrow my first thoughts would be Rossi XV or libtech orca, neither of which have traditional camber. Hybrid profiles perhaps offer better all around boards.
We don't see skiers telling people "don't ride the nice modern fun skis with lots of rocker, you should learn on some old long skinny skis". At the end of the day it's about having fun.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ste_B wrote: |
| @wiigman, out of interest, why would you suggest trad camber? |
I'll give my unwarranted answer to that. If you learn on a camber dominant board your fundamentals will always be solid and you're unlikely to develop bad habits that will be difficult to unlearn later. Sloppy technique is much easier to get away with on bananas, that's why they're so much fun to mess around on once you can actually ride.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@boarder2020, @Snow Hound, thanks for the responses.
I think I would have probably wanted to learn on anything that would minimise the chances of catching an edge on the flats!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ste_B wrote: |
@boarder2020, @Snow Hound, thanks for the responses.
I think I would have probably wanted to learn on anything that would minimise the chances of catching an edge on the flats! |
You're not the only one, which is precisely why there are always plenty of snowboarders ruddering around in the backseat never fully in control of themselves or their boards.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@boarder2020, I have had a Rossi XV in the quiver for the last 6 years. Whenever I strap in I know it's going to be a good day. It's just such a capable, precise and fast board.
I read that the latest model is really bad though - Angry Snowboarder gave it a brutal review, so I'm being careful to not kill the one I've got. If Rossi don't see the light and update it back to how it used to be, I'll probably replace it with a flagship when the time comes, but that won't be as much fun as the XV - I've had a solution split for the last few years too.
I much prefer camber dominant boards, but can't recall the last time I have seen an old school full camber board in a shop.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Blimey this thread has gone down black run 
I think ile put myself in for a Capita Outerspace Living 156.
I have to make a decision and im always super indecisive, its a bad trait I have.
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| tsmg wrote: |
Blimey this thread has gone down black run
I think ile put myself in for a Capita Outerspace Living 156.
I have to make a decision and im always super indecisive, its a bad trait I have. |
That's where most threads end up.
Good choice.
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Why not the Yes Basic? They hold resale value as it is a good do everything first board.
Do not go wide with your dinky feet. That is probably the biggest reason you had problems turning your friends board. You would really have to work hard to get your body weight over the edges to turn! Forget the XV as your first board IMO. Maybe its more forgiving brother One. They are both easier to initiate turns & I think that is where you are looking to improve.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Gored, turn initiation and confidence to do it quickly at speed is my biggest fear, just about timing else catch an edge trying to run, problem with doing stuff at SnowCentre is that its a short run and narrow, can fluster me a little, but out on holiday in a couple of weeks so will get to brush up on long runs. I just have to approach this like I do racing motorbikes
I ride goofy, need to train my switch more, its very unnerving but I do it but not really intentionally, a few turns might end up with one as a 180 and into switch.
No real reason why out Yes Basic other than I need to make a choice.
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| Snow Hound wrote: |
| ste_B wrote: |
| @wiigman, out of interest, why would you suggest trad camber? |
I'll give my unwarranted answer to that. If you learn on a camber dominant board your fundamentals will always be solid and you're unlikely to develop bad habits that will be difficult to unlearn later. Sloppy technique is much easier to get away with on bananas, that's why they're so much fun to mess around on once you can actually ride. |
Thanks to Snow Hound - could not have put that better... But appreciate everyone will have a different view on this!
I also find new(ish) snowboarders that I meet (via lodges, friends etc) are often totally confused by all the options re lifted/rocker/hybrid/TBT etc. So camber feels like the obvious start point.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| tsmg wrote: |
@Gored, turn initiation and confidence to do it quickly at speed is my biggest fear, just about timing else catch an edge trying to run, problem with doing stuff at SnowCentre is that its a short run and narrow, can fluster me a little, but out on holiday in a couple of weeks so will get to brush up on long runs. I just have to approach this like I do racing motorbikes
I ride goofy, need to train my switch more, its very unnerving but I do it but not really intentionally, a few turns might end up with one as a 180 and into switch.
No real reason why out Yes Basic other than I need to make a choice. |
Maybe spend the money on a private lesson or two? Will be cheaper than buying the wrong board. If there same board was suitable for everyone, then there woud not be the choice of board.
I guess you know why you are over-turning. Practice starting your next turn before finishing the previous one. If you got time to get flustered, then your brain is taking over. You are responsbale for the person in front of your. Your feet will take over if your brain panics
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
You're not the only one, which is precisely why there are always plenty of snowboarders ruddering around in the backseat never fully in control of themselves or their boards.
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I don't disagree with the sentiment that a trad camber will probably make sure you learn good fundamentals. But plenty of people manage to learn good technique without ever riding a trad camber board. It's not like the only option is trad camber or complete banana. If a hybrid can provide the stability of camber and some of the the float, playfulness, and forgiving nature of rocker I don't see what's not to like.
@Gored, no definitely not suggesting a Rossi XV for a beginner! Was saying even as someone thats a fairly decent rider and enjoys a trad camber board if you told me tomorrow I had to replace it I'd go for a hybrid. (Although sounds like the new XV might not be so good after all!)
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
156 powder board for your weight thats miles off
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Plenty of volume shifted boards with next to no tail and super wide. Capita spring break slush board for example only goes up to 151cm, and that would be ok for his weight.
For a traditional shaped board it is way too small, but that's just proving the point shape is lot more important than simply looking at a boards length and that's why you need to check the manufacturers guidelines.
As well as the kind of riding you are doing, there's also some personal preference involved. I'm 70kgs and my resort/freeride board is a 160cm stiff traditional camber board. |
Yeah I get this but why are you bringing up these types of boards for a beginner? A beginner needs to build confidence and learn correctly, but not on a volume shifted or full rocker board Imv. Also I don't think they should bother with trad camber neither. A good hybrid board should be the way to go. You can experiment later but now you need to progress without the pain.
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You know it makes sense.
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@boarder2020,
@boarder2020, not saying that learning on rocker automatically means bad form. Good instruction no doubt helps, riding with decent riders too.
Geeks like me who like to read about good technique and watch countless YouTube clips are likely to have a fair idea of what solid riding should look and feel like.
Also I was careful to specify 'camber dominant' as I think there's a big difference between boards with camber between the feet and those with rocker. Rocker dominant boards are much easier to swivel and counter rotate. Great if this is another tool in your arsenal, not great if this is how you do most of your turns.
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