 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm just about to book my hire skis for next year. Normally we are offered a choice of beginner/intermediate/advanced, and it's easy - we go for intermediate.
This year, the classification is in 4 parts and apparently one level is for 'blue to red' skiers, and the next for 'red to black'. This all seems a bit daft to me, as - if nothing else - a red in France is very different from a red in Italy (the classification is from a company offering ski hire across all of Europe).
So - my instinct is to go for the 'red to black' level (there is one more level above this). I will happily ski anything red (in Italy), and will tackle a black as a means to an end, or if I've had a good look at it from the lift and feel OK about it - if it's wide, I'll do it much more happily than if it's narrow. But my question is, is there an issue if I get skis which are more suited to someone who is 'better' than me? Will I have any issues if my skis are more suited to a more competent skier?
I'm sure someone will come come along and say I can just change them if I don't think they're right, but I'm not a good enough skier to 'feel' anything about my skis - when you only ski one week a year, it's very hard to tell whether how things are going is because of the skier or the ski!
What could any potential issues be with getting the 'better' skis?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If they are very stiff you might not enjoy them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmmm. That doesn't really mean anything to me! Are better ones likely to be stiffer? Or less good ones? And what do you mean by 'enjoy them'? I just like to get down the mountain in a controlled fashion (not at a snail's pace, but I'm not interested in zooming down the middle of a slope in a straight line). I like to cover a decent amount of miles, so we ski hard in that sense (not much stopping), but 'performance' of a ski is not something I understand at all.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IME. Skis can be unsuitable for your level...this is usually down to them being too damp and torsionally stiff of your level/weight.
If you find them hard to turn and feel like they are running away with you - ask for something softer and more forgiving.
I think it unlikely you will be given an unsuitable ski in the Red to Black run category.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I booked premium skis this trip and my wife moderates. We got given the same skis.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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There's usually 3 levels of ski available. What they call those levels is pretty irrelevant... 1/2/3, beginner/inter/advanced, blue/red/black, bronze/silver/gold... they'll still be the same 3 ranges of ski.
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Yep - 3 levels is what I'm used to. In this instance there are 4, which is what has caused the confusion. There's one additional level either side of the 2 I'm referencing.
With a choice of 3 it's a very easy decision to go down the middle. But it seems that mid option has been sub-divided.
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@WoottonBecs, from your own description of skills, particularly around the approach you'd take to black slope, then the "blue/red" option you've detailed seems appropriate.
Skiing a black slope without a second thought would swing the balance of choice to that category including the black definition. Which as you've stated is not your current level.
Mostly a higher technical level of ski is going to include the need to load it more in more aggressive a fashion and sustain those loads on demand of the skier. This can make the skier that's less equipped skill wise unable to apply that level of pace/force/direction, then feeling that the ski is just difficult to use and effectively driving them where IT wants to go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I know this doesn't help with your question but they surely can make a difference. My wife was moving from beginner to intermediate and I booked intermediate skis for her thinking they would be a bit better quality and make skiing a little easier. But she found them too fast and swapped them to beginner and was much happier.
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| WoottonBecs wrote: |
Yep - 3 levels is what I'm used to. In this instance there are 4, which is what has caused the confusion. There's one additional level either side of the 2 I'm referencing.
With a choice of 3 it's a very easy decision to go down the middle. But it seems that mid option has been sub-divided. |
From what you've described go blue/red level.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As for can a ski be too much... Think of it like cars. You might be very happy and competent, driving your Ford Fiesta as hard as you like. Now get in a Ferrari, drive it the same way and expect to be visiting the scenery in very short order... backwards!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@WoottonBecs, also bear in mind that sometimes the difference in price point might just reflect how new the ski is i.e. this seasons ski vs. last seasons.
I've rented a wide range of ski and outside of beginners ski's and specialist skis (park, off piste etc), I've not really seen any pattern in what I've been given. Yes some are better than others, but that is normally down to what the shop decide to give me (no doubt driven by stock and whim) rather than what level I've ordered. So I wouldn't worry too much!!
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@WoottonBecs, do you carve your turns? If yes go for 2nd from top, if not go for one below.
Level one will be floppy beginner ski,.level 2 your usual intermediates, level 3 stiff carving ski, level 4 newest poshest version of stiff carving ski.
If you have a stiff carving ski out can't drive it, it will be a right ball ache for you, as you really need to press the ski into the turn to get the most out of it.
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You know it makes sense.
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@WoottonBecs, in addition to what others have said, I note you mention that this is "a company offering ski hire across all of Europe." My guess is that means they're just an aggregator who act as intermediary between you and the actual hire shops (like Skiset, Alpinresorts etc). There could be very limited correlation between their levels and the levels the shop itself offers. If you can, try and find the shop itself online.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks all - plenty of food for thought.
@sugarmoma666 - you're right in that it's an aggregator. It's via the company we've booked through, and they're doing 2 for 1 this week, which is why I want to get it sorted today. The difference (in price) between the 2 levels is not much, so I think I'll book the slightly more expensive ones, and will have a conversation with the people in the hire shop when we collect to make sure I have something that suits. Easier to trade down than up, if necessary (if it's pre-booked/on a voucher etc).
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Poster: A snowHead
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@WoottonBecs, Assuming you're no longer improving your skiing but are comfortable with what you know, one other consideration is your age. A "softer" ski may well help you maintain your level as the ravages of time catch up. Just a thought and ignore if you're under 50. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Rent advanced skis -- in a short length.
More control, more edge, more speed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Rent advanced skis -- in a short length.
More control, more edge, more speed. |
More garbage
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have seen many instances of people spaffing cash on platinum/gold/5* skis cos more money = more better. What they got was rock hard race skis, which are jolly hard work for part time British intermediates...
Go for the second cheapest pair.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i’ve been renting for 25+ yrs - and I reckon you basically get what they have left on the day - so I always book “red” as they are cheap
When hubby’s skis were taken in Les Carroz the shop tried to charge us ££s more than we expected because they said they’d given us Gold skis - and they wouldn’t budge even though I pointed out we only booked red and had no idea we’d been given anything else - - so just bear in mind if you get “better” skis you need better insurance
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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From a shop that I've hired from:
Evolution (Beginner)
I discover the mountain with equipment that is safe and easy to use
eg. Dynastar Speed 263
Performance (Intermediate)
I ski with comfortable high-performance equipment which allows me to take full advantage of the ski area
eg. Dynastar Speed 4x4 363 Ti
Excellence (Advanced)
I ski with the newest equipment each season for enjoyable high performance skiing
eg. Dynastar Speed 563
Premium (Advanced/Expert)
I ski with luxury, technologically advanced equipment
eg. Dynastar Speed Omeglass Master SL K
So as the the cost goes up, you get more advanced skis - which are most likely also newer.
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@WoottonBecs, It's cruel of them to make 4 categories when - as you say - with only 3, you obviously go with the 'just right' Goldilocks middle option.
Skis can certainly be too good for you! I once went to a very small hire shop (in Les Coches somewhere I think) and got chatting to the old girl who ran it and for some reason (probably me talking shyte) she got the impression I was a good skier and gave me a pair of 'good' skis her son (an amateur racer) had used last season. They were 183 GS skis with a radius of 23m and I literally could not even make the simplest turn on them. I returned that night with my tail between my legs to be handed a pair of punter carvers which of course I should have had all along...
One other thing to note is that sometimes the cheapest ones can look very old and battered... I've got a feeling that rental price is in part determined by age of the ski.
Personally (especially in Italy) I go into the shop holding the folding and pick a pair I like. It works out the same price as online once they've seen the cash in hand and you can feel the goods before parting with the money. This tactic only works in owner-occupier rental shops, rather than Intersport franchise type places, for obvious reasons
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Really stiff skis only come alive when a lot of pressure is applied to the turn.
Softer skis come alive at slower speeds and less exertion.
Beginner skis are born alive but start to flap when you exert too much pressure.
Be honest with the hire shop. It makes no sense not to.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Last season I skied for the first time in 25 years. I booked intermediate skis and 6 half days of group lessons. Day one was a wash out, after day two I was moved into the advanced group. By day four I was doing okay but still struggling to match most in my group. I asked my instructor what my biggest weaknesses were, he replied "My skis!". Off I went to the rental shop expecting to pay for an expensive upgrade, the Yorkshireman in me couldn't help but think that my instructor was on commission. I paid 16EUR for advanced skis for the remaining two days. The difference was almost unbelievable! The change was immediately awful, 5 minutes later I was happy. After 30 minutes I had much more confidence on more challenging sections. Skis definitely make a difference!
If you're "means to an end" blacks are lots of traversing to just get down then stick with inters and enjoy the more relaxed stuff, if you want to push hard then spend spend spend!
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Skis are like amplifiers, always get the ones that go to 11 so you are left a bit in reserve if the piste is particuarly steep.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My skis always seem too good for me 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I generally don't hire but have on a couple of occasions.
I've always just told the shop my height/weight and what/how I ski. Then they give me something that should (and in my limited experience) works.
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I've got many pairs of skis amoung them some Völkl deacon 74 evo. I very rarely ski them. I used them this last week with my stiffer race boots. All day i've got to be on my game usung them and by on my game i mean every input needs to be correct. When i get it correct float>grip>pop. Any sloppiness gets punished. I'm not sure I can be bothered to ski them everyday especially with my kids.
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