 Poster: A snowHead
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What are peoples thoughts on the debate of super resorts vs. smaller off the beaten track resorts?
Personally I'm a big fan of the smaller resorts, many of them are highly underrated with great infrastructure and usually significantly cheaper. However many people seem to look down their nose at the smaller resorts? I'm keen to find out why?
Particularly from an Austria point of view there's loads of options
Hinterstoder
Wildkogel
Lofer
Hochkonig
Tauplitz
Planneralm
Riesneralm
Turracherhohe
the list is pretty endless to be honest...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I spend quite some time in Austria skiing, and sometimes do day trips to the smaller areas - But in all honesty, many of them can be skied in a day or two, and I prefer to park the car on Saturday, and not return to it until next Saturday. Essentially it’s about logistics for me:-)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| I spend quite some time in Austria skiing, and sometimes do day trips to the smaller areas - But in all honesty, many of them can be skied in a day or two, and I prefer to park the car on Saturday, and not return to it until next Saturday. Essentially it’s about logistics for me:-) |
I guess that's the question, is it perceived as wrong to ski the same run more than once or twice on a holiday?
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Bigger is always better.
More choice.
Big resort = season
Mid resort = week
Small resort = weekend
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@skilehrer89, with you all the way. One of my favourites is Rauris.
My base is Lauterbrunnen in Switzerland but we regularly visit the small areas Meiringen, Habkern,
Melchsee Frutt etc.
Mid week in particular , these areas are so quiet it's like owning your own ski station.
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| skilehrer89 wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| I spend quite some time in Austria skiing, and sometimes do day trips to the smaller areas - But in all honesty, many of them can be skied in a day or two, and I prefer to park the car on Saturday, and not return to it until next Saturday. Essentially it’s about logistics for me:-) |
I guess that's the question, is it perceived as wrong to ski the same run more than once or twice on a holiday? |
Good question - I have spent so many weeks in Ischgl over 30 years, that must have done each run +20 times (probably more), but I still return, despite having skied it all. Maybe variety is the real trigger here.
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Started big and in 20 years went smaller. Much more enjoyable.
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Likewise.
Much prefer the smaller, more relaxed resorts / ski areas, those designated as 'family resorts' especially.
Far less competition for the snow and there's always challenging terrain if you know where to look.
In life, the adage is 'familiarity breeds contempt' but in my professional life as an instructor and my personal life as a holiday skier I feel 'familiarity breeds comfort'.
I enjoy repeating runs, finding a better path down and/or maximising the conditions under my skis without feeling I need to move on and rack up the miles to justify the cost of the day pass.
Overall the ski experience is more relaxed due to less people.
And normally lift pass prices, food & drink on-mountain, and accommodation are a fraction of the 'super resorts'.
On any given day it's easy to make 30 purchases. If each of those purchases is just 1 euro cheaper in the smaller resorts compared with the 'super resorts' then that's 210 euros less over a week's holiday.
Often the difference is considerably more than 1 euro.
There are some real gems out there, which don't have to cost the earth.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 11-12-23 15:19; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've probably gone small, big, small, big over the years.
Learned to ski a bit in smaller resorts then went a lot to the large resorts particularly the Tarentaise. Went to a lot of smaller resorts for a while particularly if hunting a bit for decent off piste where it was far less skied. I do now quite enjoy piste touring in the dolomites which is about as big as it gets.
Still enjoy really quiet slopes though, last years visit to the Aosta valley was great when I could ski but the awful weather meant I didn't visit any of the resorts that I wanted to.
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Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area.
I can understand why go to Austria if apres-ski is your #1 priority.
I can also understand why go to Austria if you are looking for a postcard picture nice village. Althought there are loads of these in other countries as well, including France. Look at Bonneval-sur-Arc or Valloire for instance.
But if you are a serious skier or snowboarder, you are better off in France. And selected resorts in Italy (Gressoney, Dolomitit) and Switserland (4V, Andermatt). Totally illogical to go to any Austrian resort.
An I can tell, because I went to most larger areas in Austria (Arlberg, Zillertal, Soelden etc).
Especially St Anton am Alrberg, must be one of the most overrated ski areas anywhere.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Depends...
Powder day = small/unknown resort
Piste cruising = go big
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skilehrer89 wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| I spend quite some time in Austria skiing, and sometimes do day trips to the smaller areas - But in all honesty, many of them can be skied in a day or two, and I prefer to park the car on Saturday, and not return to it until next Saturday. Essentially it’s about logistics for me:-) |
I guess that's the question, is it perceived as wrong to ski the same run more than once or twice on a holiday? |
No, and it's inevitable that you'll ski the same run more than once or twice no matter where you are (as some runs are unavoidable in order to get places i.e. home!). To me it's more about itineraries - for example, one day might feature 60/70% of the runs from a previous day, but it's the new 30% that keeps it fresh. For example, when staying in La Plagne we'll go over Les Arcs on a few days, and will ski the same runs getting there but once over there we'll pick a different area to explore each time.
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@Onnem, big fan of Austrian skiing then?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Onnem wrote: |
Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area.
I can understand why go to Austria if apres-ski is your #1 priority.
I can also understand why go to Austria if you are looking for a postcard picture nice village. Althought there are loads of these in other countries as well, including France. Look at Bonneval-sur-Arc or Valloire for instance.
But if you are a serious skier or snowboarder, you are better off in France. And selected resorts in Italy (Gressoney, Dolomitit) and Switserland (4V, Andermatt). Totally illogical to go to any Austrian resort.
An I can tell, because I went to most larger areas in Austria (Arlberg, Zillertal, Soelden etc).
Especially St Anton am Alrberg, must be one of the most overrated ski areas anywhere. |
I don't think thats quite fair to say serious skiers and snowboarders are better off in France (and those selected resorts). I don't think being a serious skier corresponds to the size of a resort you choose? (in my opinion of course) I would consider myself a serious skier with often a preference for a smaller resort for many of the reasons mentioned above - less competition for snow, some fabulous pistes and runs and generally a good saving - meaning more skiing throughout the year!
I've been to many of the larger resorts in Austria too - I know the Arlberg exceptionally well and I do agree it is overrated in some respects (it's still great though!) but the price premium you can pay is not totally worth it. However there are also some very underrated areas in Austria such as Serfaus-Fiss-Ladis and parts of the Ski Amadé that are comparable with many resorts across Europe.
Definitely a really interesting discussion so thank you to everyone who's replied 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As with everything in life, it's a case of each to their own. I just love skiing - any snow, anywhere, any size ski area. From skiing half an inch of snow in the North Pennines to 650km of piste in the 3 Vallees - bring it on! Any day (or hour!) on snow is not to be sniffed at in my book.
IMO, discovering a deserted locals' ski area, far from the radar of those who won't get out of bed for under 200km of piste, is one of skiing's biggest pleasures
And as for writing off the whole of Austria in favour of France... 
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Poster: A snowHead
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i dont find Serfaus Fiss Ladis more cheaper than St. Anton (ok, Lech is another Liga)
Ok Arblerg is a little bit overrated, but if someone know where and when, it is in the same level with Serfaus or Saalbach or Sölden...maybe except Lech and Zürs
However, i went to many resorts in Austria, and never seen so terrible parking System as in St. Anton am Arlberg
For me is a no go reason (since i use tha car)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| swskier wrote: |
| @Onnem, big fan of Austrian skiing then? |
Horses for courses.
As I wrote above, St Anton am Arlberg is - in my opinion - one of the most overrated areas I have ever visited.
I was seriously disappointed, maybe expectations were too high.
Waiting lines, bus connections, atrocious piste preparation (not a problem for me, but for my spouse who is less confident), a-social dangerous behavior on the slopes (lost of near-misses and actual accidents) and no-one from the lift company taking action on this.
I like Schladming and surroundings for it's nice ski area, and not overrun with hordes of my fellow countrymen like nearby Altenmarkt.
But still, if you want a nice mid-sized ski area with authentical village, by far my preference is Valloire or Val Cenis. Or Gressoney. Or Grimentz. Or Arabba.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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“Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area.”
“ Totally illogical to go to any Austrian resort.”
Quite right! I find the 408km of the Ski Circus really claustrophobic. Stick to France.
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| Onnem wrote: |
| Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area. But if you are a serious skier or snowboarder, you are better off in France. |
I agree, Please keep encouraging people to go to France and not come and spoil my 760km (including a number of smaller gems) in the Ski Amade.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Onnem wrote: |
Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area.
I can understand why go to Austria if apres-ski is your #1 priority.
I can also understand why go to Austria if you are looking for a postcard picture nice village. Althought there are loads of these in other countries as well, including France. Look at Bonneval-sur-Arc or Valloire for instance.
But if you are a serious skier or snowboarder, you are better off in France. And selected resorts in Italy (Gressoney, Dolomitit) and Switserland (4V, Andermatt). Totally illogical to go to any Austrian resort.
An I can tell, because I went to most larger areas in Austria (Arlberg, Zillertal, Soelden etc).
Especially St Anton am Alrberg, must be one of the most overrated ski areas anywhere. |
I'm the troll round here lad get orf my patch
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“ Waiting lines, bus connections, atrocious piste preparation (not a problem for me, but for my spouse who is less confident), a-social dangerous behavior on the slopes (lost of near-misses and actual accidents) and no-one from the lift company taking action on this.”
This could be a description of many resorts in Europe including many I have skied in France.
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I thought the piste skiing in Verbier pretty poor but then who goes there to ski pistes? Chamonix busses or expensive taxis? Champoluc ski out and back….oh you mean go there for the lift served off piste. Stay clear of Austria…all terrible.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Matrix wrote: |
“ Waiting lines, bus connections, atrocious piste preparation (not a problem for me, but for my spouse who is less confident), a-social dangerous behavior on the slopes (lost of near-misses and actual accidents) and no-one from the lift company taking action on this.”
This could be a description of many resorts in Europe including many I have skied in France. |
Comparing Arlberg to 3V, 4V, Alpe d'Huez, Zermatt-Cervinia, Serre-Chevalier etc etc... All of them better, not just but by miles.
Of course Mooser Wirt is nice. Been there, done that. For many of my fellow countrymen après ski is knockout criterium, not for me.
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“criterium” Is that Roman for something? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When I visited Austria, I liked to mix it up. Sometimes staying in a larger area and sometimes going somewhere smaller. Ski Amade is perfect for this. You can have a base and spend a few days in the more connected areas, but then have days out at smaller areas. I’ve been based in Schladming but had days out at Fageralm and Filzmoos. I’ve been based in Flachau and had days out at Flachauwinkl/Zauchensee (before the two areas were linked), Hochkönig and Altenmarkt/Radstadt. Regrettably we never made it to Eben or the Gasteins.
I guess most people choose larger areas for more variety and the sense of exploration. Also perceived value, most people would be relatively happy to pay €300 for six days in an area that has 200+km rather than €250 for an area that has considerably less (figures are estimates!).
I now live in Andorra. I love going to Arcalis that has around 30km of piste (but loads of freeride if there’s enough snow) but only go to Pal/Arinsal (60-ish km) a handful of times a season - I don’t find this area as interesting. I mostly ski Grandvalira and that has 210km. This is mostly because of convenience though because I can walk to my nearest lift.
There’s a reasonable number of small areas in France and Spain within an hour-ish drive but I’ve not been to any of them. Again, mainly due to how close I am to my nearest lift (I can only ski weekends) but also value. I pay €425 for a season pass that covers all of Andorra. If I have days out elsewhere, I’m looking at €40-50 a day plus petrol.
If I was in Austria and had one of the Innsbruck/Salzburg or Ski Amade season passes, I’d be off visiting all sorts of areas large and small.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Whitegoldsbrother wrote: |
| Onnem wrote: |
Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area.
I can understand why go to Austria if apres-ski is your #1 priority.
I can also understand why go to Austria if you are looking for a postcard picture nice village. Althought there are loads of these in other countries as well, including France. Look at Bonneval-sur-Arc or Valloire for instance.
But if you are a serious skier or snowboarder, you are better off in France. And selected resorts in Italy (Gressoney, Dolomitit) and Switserland (4V, Andermatt). Totally illogical to go to any Austrian resort.
An I can tell, because I went to most larger areas in Austria (Arlberg, Zillertal, Soelden etc).
Especially St Anton am Alrberg, must be one of the most overrated ski areas anywhere. |
I'm the troll round here lad get orf my patch |
And a fine job you do of it as well.
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As for serious skiers choosing France over Austria, if you base seriousness of skier on the overall quality of those skiing, Austria wins hands down. On very casual, sweeping and general observations from me and friends, the overall standard of skiing in Austria is generally higher than that seen in lots of places I’ve visited in France.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Onnem wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
| @Onnem, big fan of Austrian skiing then? |
Horses for courses.
As I wrote above, St Anton am Arlberg is - in my opinion - one of the most overrated areas I have ever visited.
I was seriously disappointed, maybe expectations were too high.
Waiting lines, bus connections, atrocious piste preparation (not a problem for me, but for my spouse who is less confident), a-social dangerous behavior on the slopes (lost of near-misses and actual accidents) and no-one from the lift company taking action on this. |
Ahhhh - that makes sense. These are reasonable criteria for wanting to avoid St Anton & these are attributes that are a common problem at Whistler too, where the drawbacks are compounded by the risks of unpleasant weather. (In both cases, the combination of reputation for expert offpiste terrain + for nightlife attracts a crowd that is perhaps less considerate of other skiers....) The terrain is superb at St Anton, but I had an ideal experience there, as I visited a couple of weeks before Xmas one year when the snow was very good (much like this year, in fact) so the slopes were relatively quiet. I thought the place was fantastic, yet I can equally imagine hating the experience during peak season.
Also, if piste preparation is a main criteria, and I imagine that is why you rate the Dolomiti Superski area highly, then the existence of a good number of avalanche-controlled itineraries where you don't need a guide to go off-piste means some of the key attractions of St Anton were completely lost on you. St Anton is a great mountain that just didn't suit your criteria - but your criticisms do provide a fair warning to the many skiers who share your preferences. I would never say St Anton was over-rated, just that it's not a good choice for many skiers.
Perhaps that is a matter of semantics - if a resort is not a suitable for a significant proportion of skiers, how can it be a great destination? I am, however, finding the reverse problem in the American-dominated ski forums like Reddit: the Ikon pass has a week each at Kitzbuhel, Zermatt, Chamonix, or Dolomiti Superski included, so all these Americans who have never before thought about skiing in Europe are asking "where should I go?" I think the Dolomites are perfect for a first trip, between the good value accommodation/food, stunning scenery, and huge amount of slopes you can ski. But 90% of the time, the American says they love to ski trees and bowls and think "groomers" are boring - so we collectively direct them to choose between Chamonix and Zermatt instead, as clearly Kitz and Val Gardena will be "overrated" given their preferences.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I prefer small resorts of around 50km-100km
I can usually find enough runs to keep me happy, as well as enough stops.
The problem with French small resorts is that they can be difficult to get to without a lot of planning.
Any savings in going to a small resort in France, can easily be lost just because of the transfers & not being able to jump on a transfer bus.
I prefer Austria approach of small areas linked into a bigger pass. If the conditions are not great or you fancy a change, then choose another small resort that is usually free to get to by the excellent public transport if you have a ski pass.
Happy to leave the big french resorts to those on package holidays & apartment owners.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
| “criterium” Is that Roman for something? |
Oops, got caught, I am a Cheesehead, not a native speaker.
That should have been "criterion".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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in response to the OP original post. I prefer a day at Sonnenkopf over say a day at Lech.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
“Personally, I don't understand why you would go to Austria, if you desire a large ski area.”
“ Totally illogical to go to any Austrian resort.”
Quite right! I find the 408km of the Ski Circus really claustrophobic. Stick to France. |
Funny that.
I don't care how many km of slopes you can put on one pass. I look at the size of the interlinked (skis-on-feet) part.
Must admin I never skied Dolomiti though. But did go to La Thuile, Cervinia, Gressoney and Venosta (are between Sulden IT (not Soelden) and Nauders).
What counts for me is
1. Size of the interlinked area
2. Length of the slopes. Prefer 3000+ feet vertical (Alpe d'Huez!)
3. Spectacular mountain scenery. Much prefer MonteRosa's 10.000 foot wall, over "the grass molehills" in Austria
4. Authentic village, year round habituated, with locals not too much spoiled by tourism
I learned to ski as a 6-YO boy in Lanersbach (AUT). Next Saturday blowing 58 candles. But still doing 110 kmh on the GPS
Went to many Austrian areas, amongst which my much-beloved  Sankt Anton
In Austria my favorite is Rohrmoos: nice sizeable area with good height difference (750-1900), not too spoilt by mass tourism, reasonable prices.
My real favorites
-Gressoney (MonteRosa); Ticks all my boxes
-Andermatt; for the Gemsstock
-Serre-Chevalier
-Alpe d'Huez; La Fare, Combe Charbonniere, Cheminees de Macle 
-Val Cenis (bit smaller)
-Tignes (for industrial ski)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The discussion about the relative merits of small resorts versus big ones is interesting, and can be had about any of the skiing countries. It's a pity that on Snowheads too many degenerate into a tedious "France versus Austria" argument or rely on silly generalities. They tend to end up with "anti France" comments and sarcasm (e.g. "stick to France") whereas it's rare that we have generalised "anti Austria" comments. I wonder why that is?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It’s not a question of which resort/type is better. It’s a question of what do you personally want when you go skiing.
I think that was in the original post but has been forgotten in the tumult.
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| Quote: |
I think that was in the original post but has been forgotten in the tumult.
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Yes, and it was a good question. There are little resorts in ALL the alpine countries.
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| skilehrer89 wrote: |
| However many people seem to look down their nose at the smaller resorts? |
What do you mean by that?
I've tended to find (as you've seen in this thread) that most people either have good reason to go where they go but there are also prejudices and stereo types, some based on truth, some less so - but the latter aren't necessarily directed against smaller resorts. French megasorts probably get a slating as much as anything else.
I have done small (which I loved) but mostly large (for a variety of reasons, practical and skiing related).
One thing I would say is that for off piste skiing (without a guide) going somewhere regularly (big or small) helps for obvious reasons and given the nature of it skiing the same runs doesn't detract from the enjoyment. And piste skiing wise it is nice not to have to worry about navigation but just be able to whizz around knowing where you are going.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
But still doing 110 kmh on the GPS
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I stopped reading here
I'll leave it at that
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@pam w, “ whereas it's rare that we have generalised "anti Austria" comments.”
I often wonder whether it’s related to the marked difference between the two countries in terms of the relative importance of the international winter sports tourism industry. 75% of visitors to French ski resorts are French, so it’s oriented principally towards the domestic market. Whereas in Austria only 33% of visitors are Austrian (despite Austria having a domestic participation rate that is more than twice that of France), so 67% of visitors are foreign customers, and in fact Austria is the country that welcomes the highest number of foreign skiers, with skier visitor numbers trending upwards. The general trend in France has been downwards for many years.
Perhaps that shows in many things?
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FAQ
