 Poster: A snowHead
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Looking around for annual Insurance a couple of questions with no clear answer regarding Carre Neige
https://carreneige.com/en/nos-offres/carre-neige-saison/
1) Repatriation appears to be only to:'The insureds vacation spot'. BUT in the Policy Document it states "Transport / Medical repatriation to home or a hospital center
close to home." Has anyone had confirmation Repatriation to UK is covered?
2) As far as I can tell there is no 3rd party liability at all. so if you get the blame for a collision on piste, you aren't covered.
Currently LV is looking like a better, all be it a more expensive, option ....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Insurance policies usually need at least three reads through to fully understand what you are covered for/not covered
Policy documents will usually trump 'flyers', 'summaries' etc
Here is the section from the insurance policy that seems to provide, in my opinion, some clarity. I'm not an insurance expert by any means
WHAT WE GUARANTEE
//PEOPLE ASSISTANCE//
5.1 Transport/repatriation
Following a guaranteed event, we organize and take care of your repatriation to
your home or to a hospital near you.
Only medical requirements are taken into consideration to decide on the date of
repatriation, the choice of means of transport or place of hospitalization.
The decision to repatriate is taken by our medical advisor, after consulting the
occasional attending physician and possibly the family doctor.
During your repatriation, and upon prescription from our medical advisor, we
organize and cover the transport of an accompanying person by your side.
Any refusal of the solution proposed by our medical team results in the cancellation of the personal assistance guarantee.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ipken, There doesn't appear to be a definition of 'Home' or 'Vacation spot' which I guess could be described as you 'Home' whilst skiing?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've just read through some of the French conditions (as almost certainly they are the ones which would count).
A few things I noticed. With the note that my French is limited - and I might have got some of this wrong.
It only covers lift-served off-piste. So if you take a lift up, and then hike up to some scary couloir, you're not covered.
It only covers treatment in metropolitan France. So if you need on-going treatment once you're at home in Blighty, that wouldn't be covered.
It reimburses costs incurred over and above what is refunded through your "organisme de santé" and with an excess of 50 euros. Not sure how this would apply to a Brit without a French "organisme de sante".
It does identify repatriation "chez vous" which, for one of us, would presumably mean UK. But that's if the doctor thinks you need to be repatriated. Presumably the doctor might decide that a French hospital is quite competent to treat you. If you refuse their suggestions, that's that.
It seems to indicate that injuries sustained in a ski lesson (cours de ski) are not covered, but perhaps that's just my dodgy French.
Medical expenses covered only up to 50K euros
My conclusion is that you'd be a bit daft to rely on Carré Neige instead of a good travel insurance policy with a UK insurer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From experience of a mate with Carte Neige(Carré’s big brother) repatriation to Edinburgh was not questioned with a blown ACL after initial treatment.
In France if you hike up from the top lift rescue is free, like everywhere in France. Ongoing treatment after that, not sure.
I use it for rescue purposes and then I have a year round policy to cover the rest. Carre Neige is of no use if you slip on the pavement after a skinful.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I really can’t imagine that a carre neige or similar can include repatriation to any home country for all foreigners. The liability seems just too great - home could be in the USA or Australia etc. If you consider the situation with Brits and their GHIC then for someone like LV= most of what they insure is either reclaimable/ covered by the GHIC or isn’t going to be significant in the grand scheme of things (like luggage, cancelled flights or stolen skis). The bit you’re really being charged for is the cost of an assistant to go out to help, extended accommodation and new scheduled flights for the injured and assistant once recovered. Or if that’s not feasible soon after, a special medical charter flight. I just don’t see you getting that sort of cover for ~£4/day. But if someone can find a clear and explicit statement otherwise, then I’d be happy to concede the point.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 20-11-23 21:25; edited 3 times in total
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Season Carre Neige is €49. What do people expect?
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@pam w, Indeed, I think your Conclusion is sound.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Carre Neige is of no use if you slip on the pavement after a skinful.
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No use if you crash on the piste after a skinful either. Effects of alcohol or drugs specifically excluded.
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Repatriation to the UK is covered on the Daily Carre Neige if the medical team deems it appropriate. The Season Carre Neige almost certainly only covers repatriation to your seasonaire accommodation - the definitions of "Home" in the two policies are different. Hardly surprising as Daily Carre Neige is €3.30 and Season Carre Neige is €0.27 if you're in Val Thorens (plus Summer season cover!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Presumably if the cost of sending you home to Australia is greater than the cost of treating you in France, they'll treat you in France.
What do you make, @Je suis un Skieur, of the provision that only costs over and above those reimbursed by your "organisme de santé"?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w, if you read the English version, it basically says that you'll have to pay and claim back medical expenses. But your first claim as a Brit would be against GHIC and/or any other travel insurance that you have. Carre Neige will pay any shortfall from those two avenues, less the €50 excess.
You are wrong about your couloir example. Ski touring is covered and that would count. It says "Lift-served" to differentiate from heli or cat skiing. Hiking up is no issue.
Surely everyone knows that the prime reason for having Carre Neige is so you don't have to go through all the pay and claim back BS if you get airlifted off the hill? Anything over and above that is a bonus.
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@LaForet, @Je suis un Skieur, the Vieux Campeur annual insurance is €30 and it covers repatriation, per,
"1. TRANSPORT/RAPATRIEMENT
Si au cours de de la pratique d’une Activité garantie, vous êtes malade ou blessé(e), nos médecins se mettent en relation avec le médecin local qui vous a reçu à la suite de la Maladie ou de l’Accident. Les informations recueillies, auprès du médecin local et éventuellement du médecin traitant habituel, nous permettent, après décision de nos médecins, de déclencher et d’organiser en fonction des seules exigences médicales :
• soit votre retour à votre Domicile,
• soit votre transport, le cas échéant sous surveillance médicale, vers un service hospitalier
approprié proche de votre Domicile,
Par véhicule sanitaire léger, par ambulance, par train (place assise en 1re classe, couchette 1re classe ou wagon-lit), par avion de ligne ou par avion sanitaire"
https://www.auvieuxcampeur.fr/media/wysiwyg/cms/carteclub/20231019_AU_VIEUX_CAMPEUR_DG_FR_WEB_EA5261.4.pdf
I'm no actuary but I presume that injury/illness severe enough to warrant repatriation is simply rare enough that it makes actuarial sense to cover it at that price. P.S. the contract is remarkably similar to that of Carré Neige ... 
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| I'm no actuary but I presume that injury/illness severe enough to warrant repatriation is simply rare enough that it makes actuarial sense to cover it at that price. |
If you were an actuary you'd have done a simple table of average distance required for repatriation vs cost. The Vieux Campeur insurance is probably 95% sold to French Nationals with an average repatriation distance of less than 500km, by road. Of course it's not the same risk as a policy that's likely majority bought by people requiring international repatriation so of course it doesn't have the same terms for the same cost.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OK, but in practical terms, I wonder how the Carre Neige repatriation works logistically? Say if you have to organise a dedicated medical flight back to the Uk? Do you have to organise everything yourself, pay out the costs, and then reclaim from … who? For LV=, for example, you have a contact at their accident management company who coordinates and organises everything - is it the same for the CN? The CN wording doesn’t make this clear although it may do in other sections.
With a policy like LV=‘s you’re also paying for someone to manage and coordinate everything for you, including flights, transfers, accommodation, review of the A&E discharge statement, etc. etc. Doing this yourself, even if it’s just flights for an assistant helper, seats on flights, and car hire might be a real hassle. Let alone longer recuperation arrangements, logistics around secondary surgery, or a medical flight.
All I’m saying is that even if I was certain CN covered the costs of the same things, I’d still probably also take out travel insurance just because the logistics post-accident would be simpler via their accident management people. And of course, you still want that travel cover to handle non-skiing illness and accidents anyway.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| LaForet wrote: |
| OK, but in practical terms, I wonder how the Carre Neige repatriation works logistically? Say if you have to organise a dedicated medical flight back to the Uk? Do you have to organise everything yourself, pay out the costs, and then reclaim from … who? |
Who knows? The insurer for repatriation has changed since Brexit as has, I suspect, the process. Anecdotal evidence on this forum says that previously it was all taken care of by the insurer and paid direct. That is not what the latest policy says...
I refer you back to exhibit A:
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| Surely everyone knows that the prime reason for having Carre Neige is so you don't have to go through all the pay and claim back BS if you get airlifted off the hill? Anything over and above that is a bonus. |
And by extension, yes, you should probably have some UK based insurance in addition to season Carre Neige if you're a UK citizen expecting a claim free concierge type repatriation process.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Travel insurance is not particularly expensive, unless you have potentially expensive pre-existing risks (as I do) in which case it's even more important......
The CN provision that they will pay the excess cost over what your own system covers (minus the 50 euro) does imply that this is something you'd have to arrange yourself after the event. When I broke my pelvis I was at home in my apartment afterwards, compos mentis, with good communications and access to a computer. The medical expenses were minimal (the usual French pharmaceutical overkill, one X ray, a couple of short ambulance journeys and a pair of crutches). My UK insurance would have repatriated me, but left my car behind. And it was easier for me to stay in France, as I had my own place and moving about with huge amounts of snow at the time was tricky and painful. I negotiated for them to pay to fly two drivers out to take me home, in my own car, three weeks later. They said they would pay costs up to the cost of repatriating me by air and I persuaded them I needed two driver to avoid an expensive overnight stay.
If, as noted above, I'd been badly injured all the arrangements would have been made by the insurers. When my husband had to fly home (many years ago) to deal with the aftermath of a freak tornado which took the roof of our house, the insurers sent a French taxi to pick him up from La Plagne and take him to Lyon for scheduled flight, and a taxi home from Gatwick. They paid all those costs upfront, and paid back five-sevenths of his package holiday cost too.
That sort of coverage, and convenience, is not going to happen with CN - it's not a substitute. But yes, it will get you off the hill with no fuss, and costs very little.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This the same "proof" of repatriation you posted in our last discussion of this subject.
So, once again, this example is from 2017, pre-Brexit, on a DAILY Carre Neige policy which is not the same coverage as the current Season policy and with a different insurer!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On off piste, it says it "couvre le hors-piste accessible depuis les remontées mécaniques avec un forfait valable sur le domaine skiable". I took that to mean that it covered areas you could reach from the top of a lift, without heroic hiking (and it obviously wouldn't cover you if you hiked all the way up without a lift pass). But maybe that's wrong, and it does cover anywhere you can hike to from the top of a lift! It's an academic point for me, anyway, as my off -piste days are over.
If you have a UK travel insurance which does NOT cover off-piste, or not without a guide, or the meaningless "against local advice" (which is often the case with less expensive policies) and are injured off-piste (even a little way off piste......) then CN will pay to get you off the mountain, but your UK policy might wash its hands of consequent medical and repatriation costs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| (and it obviously wouldn't cover you if you hiked all the way up without a lift pass). |
Well if you haven't got a lift pass, you can't buy Carre Neige so I doubt that's an issue. 
The policy explicitly states that Ski Touring is covered. "Hiking up" whether from the village or the highest lift is a form of ski touring.
| pam w wrote: |
| If you have a UK travel insurance which does NOT cover off-piste, or not without a guide, or the meaningless "against local advice" (which is often the case with less expensive policies) and are injured off-piste (even a little way off piste......) then CN will pay to get you off the mountain, but your UK policy might wash its hands of consequent medical and repatriation costs. |
This is a good point. One of the main selling points of Carre Neige rescue has always been that (bar some very unlikely scenarios) they basically don't care where you are or how you got there, whether you're in a group or on your own, whether you have or haven't got avi gear and a helmet or what the avalanche risk is. They will get you to hospital and it will all be billed direct to them. IME, most UK travel insurance companies have a whole host of off-piste skiing conditions in the small print so you could definitely be penalised if you're too "honest" about your accident.
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| Quote: |
you could definitely be penalised if you're too "honest" about your accident.
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or if they simply ask piste rescue where you were found......
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@boredsurfin, back to your question 2, I agree Carre Neige provides no cover for third party liability. I guess this is because French skiers may already have this under their home insurance policies. In the same way that many UK home policies provide third party liability coverage in the UK (but not abroad).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We seem to have come full circle on this. I'm reading the responses as saying that you should always have a UK Travel insurance policy with winter sports cover. Then take out the assurance offered with the ski pass because it streamlines the heli-evac process and associated charge payments. That some local ski season policies also cover - probably - repatriation doesn't change this principle. If only because without the former, you'd not be covered for non-ski-related accidents and illness.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 21-11-23 13:32; edited 1 time in total
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The third party point is a good one. The travel insurance "free" with my bank account (subject to hefty penalty for age and infirmity.....) includes personal liability and specifically includes damage you are responsible for in temporary holiday accommodation. Having this last is generally a condition of renting in France - don't know about other countries.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Why on earth would someone expect the carre neige to cover costs to get you home? What's it to do with them? The clue is in the "neige" part of the name, it gets you off the snow to the nearest most appropriate medical facility, after that you're on your own.
Regarding off-piste, if you are planning to go far off-piste/touring then you should get a carte neige. This is unambiguous in covering all and every type of skiing. It's a little more pricy and you have to join the FFS, but it's worth it for peace of mind, imho.
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| they basically don't care where you are or how you got there |
Disagree. Given a heli rescue can run into multiple thousands (depending where they pick you up from and take you to, which could be direct to Grenoble if back or head trauma, for example), then they will be extremely interested to know what cover you have, and will actively pursue you for the €€€'s if you're not properly covered.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Note also that Carré Neige only covers the Savoie stations ... so a bit limited in that regard.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| Why on earth would someone expect the carre neige to cover costs to get you home? |
Because it literally says so in the documentation and because anecdotally someone linked to a post that says in December 2017 they did just that.
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You know it makes sense.
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Insurance for skiing in general seems to be a mess/minefield what with GHIC, CN and the like, the off piste considerations, 3P liability, etc.
As we are a family of 4 who ski off piste without a guide I try to get good travel insurance. We do a couple of trips a year and invariably a couple of holiday trips abroad so it makes sense to get an annual policy. Currently using LV, have used MPI in the past. Given that I don't bother with CN. Back when I was single I did once rely purely on CN. I've never really been bothered about any non-medical coverage - I can self insure, live with that if necessary.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Layne, I'm amazed, I (obviously) thought it was just to get you off the hill. But before replying on it post-Brexit I'd like some more recent examples of hassle free repatriation.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
it basically says that you'll have to pay and claim back medical expenses. But your first claim as a Brit would be against GHIC and/or any other travel insurance that you have. Carre Neige will pay any shortfall from those two avenues, less the €50 excess.
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@Je suis un Skieur, that seems logical - CN as a final "safety net", well after the event. But it's at odds with
| Quote: |
they basically don't care where you are or how you got there, whether you're in a group or on your own, whether you have or haven't got avi gear and a helmet or what the avalanche risk is. They will get you to hospital and it will all be billed direct to them.
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If they pay all the bills upfront - which could be huge - then it would be down to them to chase around and recover what they can from GHIC or travel insurance.
Something doesn't quite add up.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A few extra points
Make sure you have your EHIC (or GHIC) for medical treetment. They are still valid and will cover, as someone pointed out, if you slip on ice while collecting the bread in the morning and break your collar bone. I keep mine in my wallet (card that is, not collar bone).
My travel insurance specifically states that they will not pay out if you are covered by any other insurance policy. So if you are covered by Carre Neige I get the impression they will not cover repatriation costs.
I'm not sure what Snowsport England's third party liabilty insurance covers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This thread has prompted me to check my EHIC - expires next August so must make a note to renew (with GHIC).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Has anyone ever heard of any mountain rescue service refusing to rescue anyone because they didn't have the right insurance paperwork with them?
My family have had a couple of recoveries and never have we been asked for anything before being rescued including a Heli-evac while I was unconscious. The paperwork caught up with me later which I forwarded to my insurance company and they settled direct. Our latest was a simple blood wagon recovery when all the pisteurs wanted was my email address. The bill arrived after I got home and again the insurance company settled it direct.
The key to insurance is read the small print and understand what you are covered for. I did see a policy a while back that specifically excluded cover when the avalanche risk was 2 and over. The cheapest insurance will never give the best cover.
As a good number of "ski" injuries occur on ice in resorts I doubt if Carre Neige would cover the costs which could be nearly as great as if it had happened skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| they basically don't care where you are or how you got there |
Disagree. Given a heli rescue can run into multiple thousands (depending where they pick you up from and take you to, which could be direct to Grenoble if back or head trauma, for example), then they will be extremely interested to know what cover you have, and will actively pursue you for the €€€'s if you're not properly covered. |
I think you've missed the point here. We were discussing season carre neige which is directly linked to your season pass which will be in your jacket pass pocket even if you're unconscious. The rescue services know what cover you have at the time of rescue.
The off piste cover includes ski touring, anything lift-accessed and anything that can be skied or toured to from France in a neighbouring country. So La Thuile for instance. Heli-skiing is banned in France so what do you think the issue is?
The only ones I can think of are cat-skiing which I've never seen in the Savoie or an Italian heli-drop near a border followed by a ski back into France. Chances are if you're heli-skiing, you'll have a separate policy for it anyway.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thing to remember about the EHIC/GHIC is that in France it only covers 80% of surgical costs and none of the hospital daily charge, the remainder has to be paid either by yourself or your insurance company, whichever that may be.
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| pam w wrote: |
@Je suis un Skieur, that seems logical - CN as a final "safety net", well after the event. But it's at odds with
| Quote: |
they basically don't care where you are or how you got there, whether you're in a group or on your own, whether you have or haven't got avi gear and a helmet or what the avalanche risk is. They will get you to hospital and it will all be billed direct to them.
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If they pay all the bills upfront - which could be huge - then it would be down to them to chase around and recover what they can from GHIC or travel insurance.
Something doesn't quite add up. |
I was replyig to your point that was specifically about off-piste rescue. The rescue costs are invoiced and paid direct. they don't even send you the bill. Medical costs used to be the same IME but it now looks like the medical costs are pay and claim back.
"it will all be billed direct to them" refers to the rescue costs incurred in getting you to the hospital, not the medical bills incurred after you've got to the hospital.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Dr John wrote: |
| Why on earth would someone expect the carre neige to cover costs to get you home? |
Because it literally says so in the documentation and because anecdotally someone linked to a post that says in December 2017 they did just that. |
And yet again someone posts a link and example of the DAILY Carre Neige bought with a 1-2 week ski pass, not the SAISON Carre Neige that is bought with a season pass. This thread is about season Carre Neige. The definition of repatriation is not the same in both policies and the cost of the policies on a daily basis is wildly different.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
This thread is about season Carre Neige.
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This thread is clearly about both, but you are right to note the confusion. Do both your points, which I quote just above, relate to season Carré Neige?
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If you look at this link https://carreneige.com/en/you will see that "Carré Neige" is available for between 8 and 21 days, or for the whole season, or for Nordique. It's highly confusing, and I came upon a link which said that "snorisk", the equivalent in some parts of France, is only available for European Union residents.
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FAQ
