Choosing short/freestyle skis for slow riding ASD child

A snowHead

We will have 2nd attempt to skiing this seasons and due to ASD and mobility/muscularity issues I'm quite certain my son will only be able to ski at very low to low speed for a very long time. How can I help him ski more comfortably given the speed will be low? Last year he could do green and part of blue runs but the skis where from a rental shop and he is quite tall so the were long too. I'm thinking about freestyle skis, does it sound ok for my son's riding profile? How should I choose the length of the skis? Ideally I would want him to ride a snowboard to avoid twisting legs in different directions resulting in a bad injury, but will see if it's something he can do.

A snowHead

I think rental shops often give kids skis which are too long. You don't say how old your son is, but following the advice of a very experienced instructor I always insisted on skis no longer than chest height for my learning grandchildren (two of whom have some degree of autism, though without muscle problems). Does your son enjoy the skiing he does? Has he expressed an interest in snowboarding? If he is like my two grand-daughters he might not take too kindly to change! Has he had lessons? Some instructors are very good with kids with special needs, if they are briefed accordingly.

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@snowyc, what's the problem you are trying to solve, in what way is his skiing uncomfortable?

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Suggest looking at "park" type ski as they will help mitigate areas of concern from design remit.

Twin tips in type, usually more centrally mounted, low swing weight (less mass to rotate and influence the skier from structure focus of lighter tips and tails) more flexible and far less likely to catch the ends in giving the classic compromise of skis going in conflicting directions.

They are specifically designed to not punish the skier from a variety of compromised pilot directions ( their forte in landing from any angle in advanced use ) with less absolute grip focus around the ski's ends. All of which helps to make them very easy to use for any skill input. Usually a bit wider under foot, bringing a more fluid glide to low speed use even when used in shorter lengths.

Agree with Pam, about chest height is good starting point for the profile you've given, building confidence and muscle memory of response being far more relevant than pure ski technicalities.

You can run them at minimal binding settings for din too as they build less accumulated turning energy in use that would need a more tenuous setting for more advanced skier.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

My son had ski lessons with a bad instructor but he did learn him more than I had expected. But I didn't know about the behavior of the instructor we got home from holiday. Because of it my son didn't want to ski anymore. However, that was last year and this year he again wants to ski. So I'm trying to get as much knowledge as possible to help him learn skiing to a level he would have a fun.
He has no interest in snowboarding but we played with a board at home and agreed to have a try for 1-2hrs on a slope to see how it goes.
No pressure here , jus trying to give my son as much fun as possible. Snowboard is a long shot but it's unlikely to work out.

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@snowyc, if you let us know where and when you will be skiing somebody might be able to recommend the right instructor. That will make all the difference. Strapping him to a snowboard without expert instruction seems a high-risk strategy to me! How old is your son?

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parameters: roughly 5′4 (165m) and 45kg?

After all it is free

Hmm. I don't really understand the logic there, I'm afraid. Are you a snowboarder or a skier?

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Both.
Snowboard "lesson" with myself: I'm making required adjustment to avoid my sons' anxiety.
Switching from skiing to snowboard: I'm checking if it's something he can do better, safer and more comfortably than skiing.

What's the issue with this logic?

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You haven't said what problem he had with skiing, having apparently learned more than you expected and able to tackle green runs. It's great that he would like to have another go. You've now referred to his anxiety, but haven't clarified what form that takes.
Most people, even with good athletic ability and balance, do fall a lot in their first few hours on a board. Is he OK about falling? When I first learned snowboarding I was relaxed about falling, but still got a sore backside. And generally, parents as teachers aren't a great idea.

Is the instructor you've lined up able to teach both snowboarding and skiing? Some ski instructors, to be honest, aren't great snowboard instructors. I know from experience that that's true in France - don't know about other places.

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I don't want to go into too much details about my son as we will take care of it.

If the instructor was able to teach both he would go straight in his hands but that's the reason initial play will be with me. I'm fully aware of how bad teaching by parents/partners is and always try to avoid it. But it won't be a proper lesson, more about checking how comfortable he is with board, riding in a different position to skiing and dealing with different (to skiing) types of falls.

The reason I opened this topic is to try to understand pros/cons of shorter skis, how short can we go and what it means? e.g. why not ski blades?

Well, a couple of us have recommended skis about chest height. I have quite a lot of experience of blades and wouldn't specially recommend them, and in particular I'd say that they are quite hard on the knees and can punish riders who can't get them on their edges (they were sometimes used by ski instructors for the specific purpose of making people carve but that approach might now be out of fashion. I haven't been conscious of seeing snowblades much in recent years). Short skis with bindings set light, as suggested by @ski3, sound like the best bet.

You know your son and as you have not explained what his anxieties are, or what difficulties he had with skiing, we clearly can't make any sensible comments on your proposal to give him a beginner lesson on a snowboard.

You know it makes sense.

Skiing versus boarding - the snowplough is a very stable shape (triangle), and helps beginner speed control. Not sure if this is relevant but good luck anyway.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@snowyc, what length skis was he given last time? He is light for his height which could mean he would be fine on shorter skis, but there is a limit to this and super-short skis become less stable again.

A snowHead

Yes - snow blades aren't very stable. Typically a beginner blader will find they "shake" quite alarmingly till you get them on their edges.

A snowHead

@pam w, Thanks! Ski blades was just an example to understand where limit is but I assumed there was a good reason we don't see beginners using them.

@CathyAuLait, that's the main reason I want to make a fun of playing with snowboard as it's much easier on skis to make quick progress.

@mgrolf, Difficult to say from pictures but between chest and chin. He is indeed very tall for his age (12yo) and skinny.

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@snowyc, again, not sure what you mean. Presumably you DON'T mean that it's much easier to make quick progress on skis. But what you wrote is confusing. And without knowing what difficulties your son had with skiing, it's hard to respond.

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@pam w, what I mean is that it's generally easier to start skiing than snowboarding. I've seen people (incl. kids) doing blue runs after 2-4hrs lessons vs. beginners really struggling with toe side after couple days.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Ok. If that's the case why are you seeking to swap your lad, who has only just started skiing, and is slow, over to snowboarding?

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@pam w, I have a lot of respect to this forum and really don't want to get involved in such discussion. I'm not saying my question can be answered with 100% accuracy without providing my son's medical records. However, I feel like I've said enough to give a general overview of needs and was looking for just some thoughts and share of experience if someone was in similar boat. What you are asking about has already been answered.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

OK,fair enough, no problem. I have just been trying to respond helpfully to your various queries as I have a lot of relevant experience of kids (including ASD kids) learning to ski, and have used skis, snowboards and blades myself and had lessons on all three!

After all it is free

@snowyc, without seeing your son actually skiing, i don't think any of us can give a much more informed answer than what you've got above, i.e. chest height should be fine, and park-type skis might be slightly better. Kids skis in general tend to be pretty light and forgiving though (at least the ones you'll be offered in rental).

If you want to be certain, then ask his instructor after he's had his first lesson, when the instructor has had a chance to see what, if anything, your son is struggling with. If the instructor suggests different or shorter skis then go back to the hire shop armed with that info.

Have you tried talking to Disability Snowsport UK? They probably have experience with others in a similar situation and could give good advice on many aspects (not just ski length).

@pam w, but it makes me feel like all my decisions are questioned, even though I'm trying to give as much background as I feel comfortable to share.

Just to summarise:
12yo now, ASD and low muscle tone,
Last year i booked a recommended ski instructor and he spent 2 full days with him (with some breaks during the day). At the end of 2nd day I could see he was slowly moving forward on greens and flat pieces of blue with some good attempts to turning.
As mentioned before, after feedback from my son I'm sure he could have done better with someone with a better attitude or at least would have had more fun.
He didn't want to do any more skiing later due to bad experience. Now he wants to go to the same place we were last Dec but would prefer me to teach him.

I'm really bad teacher and even worse if it comes to teaching/training relatives. I can try to have some fun playing on a snow rather than doing actual teaching and am always happy to leave it to professionals.

Snowboard - I'm worried that his low muscle tone and difficulties with staying focus can result in a bad injury when he crosses skis. So I would want to give him a try with snowboard. However, no pressure here, just want to take an opportunity that he is at a very early stage and is keen to try. It's a very long shot because I know how demanding snowboarding could be for him but I know cases where it was more intuitive for someone than skiing (he likes balancing exercises etc).

I know how different kids can be, especially with ASD, hence my question was basically how I can help him by changing the skis. Rental shops make assumptions based on what people expect and how they learn and I have too little knowledge about technicalities to figure out what the optimal length is what difference different ski profiles make.

@mgrolf, yes, I've tried talking with DSUK but the easiest way would be to meet in person which wasn't an option given availability during weekdays.

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sorry if you felt "questioned", @snowyc, but the questions were just to try to get a better feel for the situation. Hope it goes well for your son. No more questions!

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So I'm autistic, as is the munchkin who is now almost 16, skiing since 2, doing his L1 CSIA in a couple of weeks. I have CSIA L2.

It's worth knowing that most autistic folk are also hypermobile, and as you mention low muscle tone I'm assuming joint hypermobility. A lot of autistic kids can learn to ski when they can't really manage any other sport because of the ankle support provided by the ski boots, and the fore/aft stability from the skis. Joint laxity around the ankles is huge barrier to most sports, but the ski set up nicely compensates for it. My munchkin can ski anything, and I've long given up trying to keep up with him, but he can't ice skate or kick a ball, for example. So you won't get the same benefit on a board. I agree with the others, chest height and consider twin tips. HTH Smile

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@Pending, wow! I have more and more doubts about snowboard now but won't put much pressure on it or we will have a play with it outside a chalet to see how it goes, but, I feel like ski is the way to go. We've done lots of ice skating but always ended up with me pushing a penguin as he couldn't coordinate his legs to skate rather than walk. BUT! he can kick a ball and rides a bicycle Smile

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I am confused as to what the issue was with the instructor. You say he was a bad instructor but he taught your son more than you were expecting.
He had your son skiing down green and easy blue runs after 2 days. Expecting more than that seems unrealistic.

You know it makes sense.

@snowrider, once I find it I will post a video of how he skied. The guy had a huge knowledge and he was recommended by someone who runs ski camps for disable kids. After the trip my son told me he wouldn't ski anymore and in a different conversation he told me the instructor shouted at him number of times. My expectations are very realistic: safety, respect and fun. At this stage it's very easy to kill the passion to something.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

What is chest size? I've measured my son today, chest is around 110-120, height 165cm, skinny (45kg?). Does this actually matter 110 vs 120 skis for him? His feet are 25cm so could it be a factor requiring longer skis to make sure boots fit bindings?

A snowHead

Thanks everyone for advice! We had a slightly different approach to skiing this seasons and it was a great success. Son used 120cm skis and spent 2x half a day skiing with different instructors and he's now definitely more into it than he was last year. Now the plan is to do indoor skiing once a month and if it goes well we'll do more family riding next time.

Re length of skis: every instructor said 120cm were a bit short but then said that conditions on the slope and his level doesn't really require longer yet. We may try 130cm next time.

A snowHead

@snowyc, where abouts do you live? General area.

If you are anywhere close to Snowtrax - near Bournemouth, we made progress with my youngest, who is ASD, Dyspraxic and dyslexic, by regular private lessons there. In the summer they do discounted lessons especially if during their off peak times which we could get some after school slots for.

Also we got her her own kit which did help. As it meant that it was her boots and skis, so this was consistent.

As a result we now have a pair of surplus 140cm minion skis, I would be happy to give you if it helps?

My daughter is now 14 and happy skiing blacks, and I al struggling to keep up. Which is a huge turn around from the many years I spent skiing behind her, me using mainly snow ploughs as that was only way I could go slow enough.

Again the regular consistency of the dry slope and occasional visits to hemel let her gradually increase her speed.

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@NickyJ, Bristol and we are heading to Tamworth first. What sort of surface is in Snowtrax? I've ridden on something similar but it wasn't white unless covered with snow. Do you have a comparison with indoor skiing? We have a similar distance to both so will try to choose whichever is best, although I didn't like the smell of the changing room in Tamworth last time I was there.

Thank you very much for you offer, I really appreciate it! I will see how it goes with the lesson in 3 weeks time and will come back to you.
Can you say a bit more about your daughter's progress and what skis she used? I wonder if for regular indoor sessions I should look for as short radius as possible (9m?).

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@snowyc, the service is not the old Dendix stuff

https://www.snowtrax.eu/skiing/#

There are pictures on that page.

The lift for the main slope is horrid and was a challenge for a bit with her. On the smaller slope it there is a magic carpet. They also have really short stretches which beginners side step up.

I have only looked at cost of lessons at Hemel and they were hugely more expensive. For us we can get to Snowtrax in 20mins on a good day making regular trips easy. We got a good relationship with one of the instructors who we made sure she had every time. They are lovely and quiet in the summer which also helped massively!

Her first skis were a second hand twin tip's then those 140, and now she is on longer as she is 5'6 now.

For her the exact spec wasn't hugely important the consistency was, if that makes sense

Help!!

Choosing short/freestyle skis for slow riding ASD child

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