 Poster: A snowHead
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Both my son (1 and I want to start venturing into ski touring. We are both UK advanced skiers - him more than me (I taught him everything I know but he now knows many things which I don’t…). we want to dip out toes (hur hur) into touring - split boarding and ski touring in his case and ski touring in my case. But what’s the best thing re starting? Get full touring kit? Hire? We are both fit from endless skiing, cycling and mountain climbing. All advice welcome.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stick some frame bindings on an existing set of skis and get some skins which fit would probably be the cheapest. If you enjoy the experience you can then start spending the $$$ on tech bindings, compatible boots etc etc. Hiring might be a possibility but the standard of kit is quite variable IME and you can find yourself with weird combinations (like beefy bindings on super lightweight flexy skis)
I assume you have off piste safely kit already but you’ll need that obviously
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@valais2, I've seen a cycle a few times with snowboarders getting into touring, where they spend €€€ on split boarding gear, only to find they can't keep up with or access the same terrain as their mates on skis. So they learn to ski, and then spend more €€€ on ski touring gear. If your son can already ski, then skip the first part of the cycle and go straight for the skis!
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@valais2, what Scarlet says re split boarding. ( also splitboards eyewateringly expensive. You could make your own?)
I didn’t go to any of the ski sales this year but I anticipate a bundle of post confined-winter acquisitions being disposed of after a winter of no usage. …
It’s all about the up so the down can be allowed to be compromised …
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ask around in resort. I know it’s easy for me being in Tignes a lot of the time but I was keen to try touring and got some hand me downs. A few weeks later I was into major expense and the original kit moved along to someone else.
We have a good hire shop (Duch Sports) that have good hire kit and they also organise an evening skin for beginners.
If you decide to go ahead and buy your own kit then you need to then discuss what you want to do. Touring is always a compromise between weight, expense, and uphill performance vs downhill performance. But that’s a topic for the future.
Good luck!
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One solution may be as follows: I assume you have a few contacts with local guides?
It is not inconceivable that some of the guides have kit (skis, skins etc) that you could hire and do a couple of introductory tours.
This would benefit you on numerous levels, there are so many questions that you will want answers too. A guide will provide you with all the "do's and don'ts" and provide a nice learning experience.
Am I correct thinking your winter residence is Crans Montana? If so you are on the doorstep of some exceptional touring up on the glacier and beyond to Wildstrubel.
Hope this is of use to you.@valais2,
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@valais2, personally I'd be inclined to spend the money initially on an intro to touring/avalanche training course, on hire gear.
From there I'd then go ahead and invest in the kit assuming you enjoyed it.
Either way I'd say do the training, and you'll just be a few £/€/CHF's down on some rental kit but better that way than spend all that money on kit to realise you don't like it.
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it is not clear to me...can you both skiing? if yes then ok. If not , then it will a problem
Splitboarding with ski touring it is almost impossible.
What ever you decide take some training courses
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@valais2 How much off-piste skiing have you both done, & of what kinds/where?
Also: what’s your motivation? Do you want to access lines that involve skinning, for example? To earn your turns? To go out on day tours where you might see relatively few others? To get the sense of having achieved a longer, hut-to-hut route?
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@valais2, Wow I’m really surprised you don’t already. My go to set up is pin bindings on a freeride ski, Dynastar Legends 110 with Scott Cosmos boots a great hybrid setup, for bits and bobs off the back. Of course if I was going hut to hut I’d be use a proper touring ski . Once I went to pins and touring boots I use them all the time bar in boiler plate conditions when I revert to piste setup .
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If cost is an issue then I would hire at first. Decent touring gear (pin bindings etc) is available readily in several shops where I ski (Les Contamines) and the daily rental rate is VERY competitive with owning unless you are doing a lot of touring days.
My favourite ski shop in resort also tends to sell used ski/binding/skin packages at the end of the season for about 200 Euro. Sure the gear has seen some action but it would still look after you for plenty of touring days
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| Both my son (1 and I want to start venturing into ski touring. We are both UK advanced skiers - him more than me (I taught him everything I know but he now knows many things which I don’t…). we want to dip out toes (hur hur) into touring - split boarding and ski touring in his case and ski touring in my case. But what’s the best thing re starting? Get full touring kit? Hire? We are both fit from endless skiing, cycling and mountain climbing. All advice welcome. |
Depending on your boot sizes I can probably lend you some gear to try out
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You know it makes sense.
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Don’t make a splitboard.
Amplid outlet store has great deals on full setups. Regular snowboard boots are fine.
I have to say though as a snowboarder of 30 years who loves taking the p 1 ss out of skiers the only time I think about learning to ski is when I’m walking uphill.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@valais2, but seriously, hire for the first 1,2 or 3 outings. You’ll know if you like it quickly enough.
The nice thing these days is you can buy boots that work well enough for alpine as well. So that’s one duplication gone.
And you can’t have too many skis can you?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@BobinCH, Bob that’s really kind. I’ll PM soon….
We can join the ‘ski touring for wallies’ group.
Hang11. You are right. I am not making a split board. I missed a Jones for the Grom at rock bottom price secondhand.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| ... The nice thing these days is you can buy boots that work well enough for alpine as well. So that’s one duplication gone. ... |
Possibly two: AT boots are a popular split boarding choice, or so I'm told.
There's been a lot of split board hype, so I'd expect the 2nd hand market to be pretty good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cant go wrong with a Jones split but there’s a lot of great choices out there these days - I would strongly suggest getting a split with camber under foot for uphill traction and avoiding Union splitboard bindings / I spend a lot of time rebuilding my daughters unions with cable ties and duck tape in the back country. They are cheap and a nightmare.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Sparks splitboard hardware is excellent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spark is good, but the screws fall out all the time - need to go over them and check tightness every time you use them. Burton and Nitro splitboard bindings are also based on the spark system.
Spark tech toes if you decide to go the AT boot way are utter garbage though. I'm currently waiting on a warranty replacement on a newly designed set, but they explode so regularly that last week on a 8 day hut based tour, I carried two spare toe pieces and wasn't holding my breath for a total of 4 of them to last 8 days. I know loads of people who have had the same issue. If you do go for AT boots, I'm told that plum pekye are the way to go, but no personal experience of them, otherwise adapter plates and sexy ski touring kit.
The rest of their gear is good, and the heel lock on the soft boot bindings are a useful feature for the odd bit of downhill pizza/French fries, it's also easy to get spare parts for them.
If step on is your thing, Burton are releasing a step on splitboard binding based on the spark baseplate and puck for the 24 season.
Phantom Slipper AT boots, which are based on Backlands, are awesome, but scarily expensive - I've been using them for a couple of years. There's another brand called key equipment in France who make splitboard hard boots, and they are a fair bit cheaper. I use the phantoms with Spark Dyno hard boot bindings, and it's a great setup. My other setup is 32 TM2 soft boots and Spark Surge bindings - also great and definitely my preference for lumpy snow.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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A friend hired some decent touring kit last season (he liked the boots so much he bought a pair!), so don't write off the idea of hiring.
FWIW-I've had Salomon Shift bindings on all mountain skis (Salmon Stance 88 ) and Nordica Strider hybrid boots with pin inserts for a couple of seasons. They were fine, but reasonably heavy all round and the shifts are quite a faff to switch over to touring mode.
Last winter Father Christmas bought me some wonderful ATK touring bindings and then I blew well over £1000 on boots (Scarpa Gea RS-spent over an hour in Au Vieux Campeur in Albertville where you can help yourself to boots and try the whole stock at your leisure), skis (Black Crows Camox Freebird) and new skins.
What can I say? I liked them all so much I spent the rest of the season skiing on them in all conditions..the ease with which the boots click into the bindings was a total revelation.
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| Perty wrote: |
A friend hired some decent touring kit last season (he liked the boots so much he bought a pair!), so don't write off the idea of hiring.
FWIW-I've had Salomon Shift bindings on all mountain skis (Salmon Stance 88 ) and Nordica Strider hybrid boots with pin inserts for a couple of seasons. They were fine, but reasonably heavy all round and the shifts are quite a faff to switch over to touring mode.
Last winter Father Christmas bought me some wonderful ATK touring bindings and then I blew well over £1000 on boots (Scarpa Gea RS-spent over an hour in Au Vieux Campeur in Albertville where you can help yourself to boots and try the whole stock at your leisure), skis (Black Crows Camox Freebird) and new skins.
What can I say? I liked them all so much I spent the rest of the season skiing on them in all conditions..the ease with which the boots click into the bindings was a total revelation. |
The joy of using ATK bindings 
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Ha! I’m not a touring binding nerd, and when I looked at the ATK website, I was gobsmacked by the range on offer. Glad I didn’t have to make a choice…
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've been lusting over ATK toe pieces and wishing they would make them with a voile pattern 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As others have said it's wise to do a few days to see if it's for you rather than shelling out big money before finding out you don't really enjoy it. Fortunately there are some good second hand deals to be found from many people making that exact mistake.
Similar to cycling there is a lot of tech and imo a lot of snobbery around it. For example frame bindings, sure they are not as light and efficient as other options, but they will be more than fine for getting you out touring. Don't feel you have to spend huge amounts of money and buy top of the range stuff. Unless you plan to do Killian jornet style days, your base fitness and any old gear will be enough for any normal objectives. I say this from experience as someone with decent fitness and a very old, heavy, inefficient, splitboard set up, it's never held me back - in fact the 2 times I've been in groups that turned around it was due to skiers on much more efficient set ups being too tired!
Regarding splitboarders can't tour with skiers and it's much slower. Not in my experience, I often tour with skiers without any issues. Yes splitboard will always be a little slower in transitions as there is an extra stage. But with a bit of practice you can get transitions very quick, to the point where the difference is pretty negligible. For most people touring is a fairly relaxed thing anyway, it's not about speed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@boarder2020, VERY interesting ... good stuff ... many thanks
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| valais2 wrote: |
| @boarder2020, VERY interesting ... good stuff ... many thanks |
No worries. Feel free to message me if there's anything I can help you out with. But definitely don't feel like you need all the expensive gear. Good fitness is a much better predictor than equipment of uphill performance ime. But like I say most of the classic day tours you would probably be considering are "fine" on anything in working order. Nowadays there's not too much awful stuff out there.
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You know it makes sense.
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