 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hey all, first time posting here.
At a point in life where I can get into skiing properly after an amazing trip a decade ago.
I will essentially be starting as a beginner and my girlfriend has never touched skis before.
I want to kickstart this winter with a late December trip but I am a little worried about snow certainty.
Currently I am thinking of going to Chamonix as it seems to be a good shout for snow between Xmas and NY.
Is there anywhere else with a sun 1.5hr transfer that I should be considering with a high likelihood of snow. Snow in the resort is a bonus also!
Thanks everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@Astontech, I am not sure Chamonix is a good choice for a couple of beginners. Somewhere like Avoriaz in Portes du Soleil might be more suitable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Welcome to SHs, @Astontech. You will get MASSES of replies to this, including many which suggest Chamonix is far from the ideal place for you.
If by "late September" you mean New Year, if that's the only time you can go, that's unfortunate. It's the worst week in the season to choose, for a host of reasons.
Sorry - this is very negative! But on the positive side, best way to kick start your great decision to become skiers is to get some lessons in one of the UK "snowdomes". So you can get the initial familiarisation with the equipment and first snowplough turns under your belt. And your girlfriend will know for sure after that whether skiing is something she wants to do. Lessons in a snowdome are expensive (you can do "learn in a day" courses) but not as expensive as finding out on the first day of an Alpine holiday that you can't stand it!
Finally - I would forget "short transfer" as a criterion for choosing a resort, given all the other factors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Yes, Avoriaz is a good shout. But think hard about the timing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Yes, Avoriaz is a good shout. But think hard about the timing. |
I checked out Avoriaz but couldn’t find any accommodation on Airbnb, anywhere else I can check for two of us?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| pam w wrote: |
Welcome to SHs, @Astontech. You will get MASSES of replies to this, including many which suggest Chamonix is far from the ideal place for you.
If by "late September" you mean New Year, if that's the only time you can go, that's unfortunate. It's the worst week in the season to choose, for a host of reasons.
Sorry - this is very negative! But on the positive side, best way to kick start your great decision to become skiers is to get some lessons in one of the UK "snowdomes". So you can get the initial familiarisation with the equipment and first snowplough turns under your belt. And your girlfriend will know for sure after that whether skiing is something she wants to do. Lessons in a snowdome are expensive (you can do "learn in a day" courses) but not as expensive as finding out on the first day of an Alpine holiday that you can't stand it!
Finally - I would forget "short transfer" as a criterion for choosing a resort, given all the other factors. |
Yes I live 5 mins from a snowdome so will be getting plenty of practice.
Why is the week between Xmas and NY so bad?
That isn’t the only week I can go, I plan to spend a few weeks skiing this winter but wanted a few days to really familiarise myself with it before going with friends who are more competent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Astontech, The Sylvester week is probably the most expensive and busiest week of the season. It is also very early in the season, so the odds of getting good snow are not in your favour, especially down at resort level.
If are determined to go, check where the nursery/beginner runs are. In a lot of resorts, you will find them down near the resort, hence the snow concern.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
@Astontech, The Sylvester week is probably the most expensive and busiest week of the season. It is also very early in the season, so the odds of getting good snow are not in your favour, especially down at resort level.
If are determined to go, check where the nursery/beginner runs are. In a lot of resorts, you will find them down near the resort, hence the snow concern. |
That makes sense.
Would I be better to push it back a couple weeks, maybe even to the end of Jan?
With that in mind, what resorts will be good for beginners for 3 days of skiing, again, preferably close to an airport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
couldn’t find any accommodation on Airbnb, anywhere else I can check for two of us?
|
Are you planning to put the whole trip together yourself? Sometimes for a first trip, a package can be useful.
Most resorts will have websites with details of available accommodation.
But really, at this stage, accommodation is a secondary consideration. Deciding first WHEN to go, and then WHERE to go are prior decisions. All resorts will have a big range of accommodation (though some French resorts don't have many hotels, as self-catering is more widespread there) though much of the best will already have been reserved for the New Year week. It really is the worst possible week to choose! Avoriaz is high and will probably have the best snow in that area but by the same token, if lower areas have poor snow (which was very much the case last season) it will be rammed, with huge lift queues and very crowded pistes.
Do you have a budget, or is cost not a big issue?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If there are lots of potential times available I kind of agree with the other posters. I would be more inclined to go pre Christmas or early Jan for earlyish season skiing.
Personally I would if going low season always wait to see where conditions are good rather than trying to anticipate where will have good conditions.
If I had to choose somewhere rather than book late I might go for high Austria like Obergurgl or Obertauern rather than Chamonix which has a low base and possibly not best suited for a beginner.
Though in my experience truly enthusiastic beginners will probably enjoy most places
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 6-09-23 11:02; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Astontech, as a pair of beginners you don't need good snow, you won't be skiing off piste or steep pistes, you just need a decent amount of coverage. Don't need a massive ski area either.
Budget ski weeks would be 16th Dec or 6th/13th/20th Jan. Feb HT, school hols around that, NY then Christmas are the busiest/most expensive. So if you are flexible and not restricted to school hols you quids in.
If you want to book s/c accommodation direct your best bet is the resort website/tourist information search facilities, or local agencies, or Sunweb or Snowtrax which do apartment/lift pass deals.
That said as beginners and two people and with flexibility you may be better cruising the TO's for last minute deals.
Chamonix definitely not a good idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Look at Montgenevre in the southern French Alps. Short transfer from Turin (1 hour 15 mins) and is usually snow sure. It sits at 1800m and is in a pass which catches fronts from both the south and west. I've been once over NYs and the snow was perfect so we've booked again for this NYs too. Obviously there's no guarantees though. It's also great for beginners with good ski schools and lots of gentle blues and greens. The only downside is if you're looking for lively apres this is not the resort for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One reason Chamonix is not a good idea is that it's not easy to find accommodation really close to good slopes for beginners (where you will be having your lessons). It often involves buses which, if you have the choice, are best avoided.
Being close to the ski school meeting place is the key consideration for accommodation - location, location, location.
Going mid December to somewhere like the Austrian resorts @T Bar mentions (or Tignes, in France, where there's endless choice of self-catering accommodation at all standards) would be a good choice. But no need to decide on resort or book accommodation now for those low-season weeks.
The quality of the ski instruction will be one of the key factors - especially for your girl friend as a complete beginner. Make or break.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@Astontech, This is not directed at you personally but why the short transfer time and what mode of transfer are you looking at?
Airports tend to be builtt where there is a good amount of flat ground and not near mountains where there is a great risk of weather disruption. Skiing is generally in the mountains where weather disruption is welcome as it provides the snow.
Airports tend to be built near population centres. Population centres tend to be on flat land where building is easy. Population centres don't like snow as it disrupts transport. Skiing tend to want slopes and snow.
The higher mountains tend to be further away from airports (Chamonix is an exception here)
To me after I've spent upto 90 minutes driving to the airport, 30 minutes parking and getting into the building, 20 minutes at security, an hour waiting for the plane. 2 hours sitting on it, 40 minutes queuing at passport control, 20 minutes getting car hire then the difference between 1:30 and 2:30 getting to the resort is irrelevant.
Even then the difference in the mode of transport can make a big difference: a helicopter to Courcheval, a taxi (often called a private transfer on this forum), a coach or the train can make a big difference to the price and the time.
As others have suggested, if you are trying to organise the trip yourself then visit the resort websites for accommodation, or look at the travel operators for learn to ski weeks. They often do good packages with discounted lessons and lift passes and deal with the tricky bits such as transfers for you.
For beginners I would have a serious look at Alpe d'Huez and fly to Grenoble or Chambery with a TO.
BTW are you thinking of travelling on Dec 23rd or 30th?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
1st full week after new years week is the cheapest and least busiest. Munich airport opens up loads of Austrian resorts,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
[quote="Mother hucker"]1st full week after new years week is the cheapest and least busiest. Munich airport opens up loads of Austrian resorts, to include kitz ski and the skiwelt which both will be good for what you're after
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Astontech wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Yes, Avoriaz is a good shout. But think hard about the timing. |
I checked out Avoriaz but couldn’t find any accommodation on Airbnb, anywhere else I can check for two of us? |
Use the tourist office websites also, as well as places such as Vrbo, Sun web.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Astontech, ask Father Christmas  , seriously late December can be dodgy for snow, certainly at resort level. Last season was very poor in the more westerly places (primarily France) though past experience is little use for next season. If this is your first trip you are probably better off with a tour operator than trying to do DIY, no idea which operators to suggest as it is a long time since I used one. There is a fair amount a faff involved in going skiing, hiring skis, organising lessons, getting a pass etc and to start off with much easier to let someone else sort all this.
Three days is not really an ideal number of days for a beginners trip as ski schools are really set up around weekly lessons ie starting on Monday morning, you are likely to end up paying for private lessons which are expensive.
If you can go later in January you might want to look at the Ski Amade area near Salzburg, transfer times are short (usually around 45 mins from Salzburg airport) and the various villages such as Flachau & Wagrain are friendly welcoming places ideal for beginners trips. If you prefer France then Avoriaz / Portes du Soleil motioned above is a good option, another near to there would be Flaine (just over the mountain ridge from Chamonix)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I missed the 3 days thing.
It can be done but requires a bit of thought/knowledge to make cost effective.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
ie starting on Monday morning,
|
Sunday in France
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Obergurgl and Avoriaz for snow in the village, Lech (if you are less cost conscious).
One thing to consider is do you want a pretty place? Avoriaz is not pretty. Les Deux Alps and Alps D'Huez are not pretty either but are very high.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@johnE, you are right Sunday morning, shows how long it is since I had anything to do with ski school
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It will VERY difficult (I'm tempted to say impossible) to find well-located accommodation for just three days in a good resort at New Year without paying a fortune.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
couldn’t find any accommodation on Airbnb, anywhere else I can check for two of us?
|
Are you planning to put the whole trip together yourself? Sometimes for a first trip, a package can be useful.
Most resorts will have websites with details of available accommodation.
But really, at this stage, accommodation is a secondary consideration. Deciding first WHEN to go, and then WHERE to go are prior decisions. All resorts will have a big range of accommodation (though some French resorts don't have many hotels, as self-catering is more widespread there) though much of the best will already have been reserved for the New Year week. It really is the worst possible week to choose! Avoriaz is high and will probably have the best snow in that area but by the same token, if lower areas have poor snow (which was very much the case last season) it will be rammed, with huge lift queues and very crowded pistes.
Do you have a budget, or is cost not a big issue? |
I was planning on that yes.
Let's say I was to push it back to the thrid week in Jan, where woudl you recommend then? Needs to be beginner friendly, short transfer and preferably good food  thansk for the help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| T Bar wrote: |
If there are lots of potential times available I kind of agree with the other posters. I would be more inclined to go pre Christmas or early Jan for earlyish season skiing.
Personally I would if going low season always wait to see where conditions are good rather than trying to anticipate where will have good conditions.
If I had to choose somewhere rather than book late I might go for high Austria like Obergurgl or Obertauern rather than Chamonix which has a low base and possibly not best suited for a beginner.
Though in my experience truly enthusiastic beginners will probably enjoy most places |
Thanks for the insight!
Where would you recommend that is beginner friendly, close to an airport and preferably a picturesque town with good food (to help win my gf over to the idea of coming more often lol) if we were to push to the third week in Jan?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| pam w wrote: |
One reason Chamonix is not a good idea is that it's not easy to find accommodation really close to good slopes for beginners (where you will be having your lessons). It often involves buses which, if you have the choice, are best avoided.
Being close to the ski school meeting place is the key consideration for accommodation - location, location, location.
Going mid December to somewhere like the Austrian resorts @T Bar mentions (or Tignes, in France, where there's endless choice of self-catering accommodation at all standards) would be a good choice. But no need to decide on resort or book accommodation now for those low-season weeks.
The quality of the ski instruction will be one of the key factors - especially for your girl friend as a complete beginner. Make or break. |
Thanks for this!!! With all these considerations, where would you recommend that is beginner friendly, close to an airport and preferably a picturesque town with good food (to help win my gf over to the idea of coming more often lol) if we were to push to the third week in Jan?
We plan on getting a guide/instructor whilst out there.
edit: just found these on the Avoraiz website, these seem like good value for us and in an area that should get snow - am I missing anything? Easy access to beginner slopes? Any huge hidden costs?
https://booking.avoriaz.com/apartment/le-nid-433539.html?&cid=1&action=result&resa_action=result
https://booking.avoriaz.com/apartment/le-billat-433524.html?&cid=1&action=result&resa_action=result
https://booking.avoriaz.com/studio/le-meleze-433600.html?&cid=1&action=result&resa_action=result
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 6-09-23 14:21; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| johnE wrote: |
@Astontech, This is not directed at you personally but why the short transfer time and what mode of transfer are you looking at?
Airports tend to be builtt where there is a good amount of flat ground and not near mountains where there is a great risk of weather disruption. Skiing is generally in the mountains where weather disruption is welcome as it provides the snow.
Airports tend to be built near population centres. Population centres tend to be on flat land where building is easy. Population centres don't like snow as it disrupts transport. Skiing tend to want slopes and snow.
The higher mountains tend to be further away from airports (Chamonix is an exception here)
To me after I've spent upto 90 minutes driving to the airport, 30 minutes parking and getting into the building, 20 minutes at security, an hour waiting for the plane. 2 hours sitting on it, 40 minutes queuing at passport control, 20 minutes getting car hire then the difference between 1:30 and 2:30 getting to the resort is irrelevant.
Even then the difference in the mode of transport can make a big difference: a helicopter to Courcheval, a taxi (often called a private transfer on this forum), a coach or the train can make a big difference to the price and the time.
As others have suggested, if you are trying to organise the trip yourself then visit the resort websites for accommodation, or look at the travel operators for learn to ski weeks. They often do good packages with discounted lessons and lift passes and deal with the tricky bits such as transfers for you.
For beginners I would have a serious look at Alpe d'Huez and fly to Grenoble or Chambery with a TO.
BTW are you thinking of travelling on Dec 23rd or 30th? |
This is super helpful thanks!!
Short transfer time is wanted as we are only doing 3 nights this first time and dont want an extra 2-2.5 hours transfer. We live 20-25 mins from the airport now and we would get a taxi to the resort.
I was thinking 27-30th, but am now considering doing it the third week in Jan, as people have said, I should probably worry mroe abotu where I am going to go - any suggestions on that would be great!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| munich_irish wrote: |
@Astontech, ask Father Christmas , seriously late December can be dodgy for snow, certainly at resort level. Last season was very poor in the more westerly places (primarily France) though past experience is little use for next season. If this is your first trip you are probably better off with a tour operator than trying to do DIY, no idea which operators to suggest as it is a long time since I used one. There is a fair amount a faff involved in going skiing, hiring skis, organising lessons, getting a pass etc and to start off with much easier to let someone else sort all this.
Three days is not really an ideal number of days for a beginners trip as ski schools are really set up around weekly lessons ie starting on Monday morning, you are likely to end up paying for private lessons which are expensive.
If you can go later in January you might want to look at the Ski Amade area near Salzburg, transfer times are short (usually around 45 mins from Salzburg airport) and the various villages such as Flachau & Wagrain are friendly welcoming places ideal for beginners trips. If you prefer France then Avoriaz / Portes du Soleil motioned above is a good option, another near to there would be Flaine (just over the mountain ridge from Chamonix) |
Great, thanks!
I will most likely get a private guide/teacher and for this first trip it needs to be 3 days due to my gf's work commitments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| afterski wrote: |
Obergurgl and Avoriaz for snow in the village, Lech (if you are less cost conscious).
One thing to consider is do you want a pretty place? Avoriaz is not pretty. Les Deux Alps and Alps D'Huez are not pretty either but are very high. |
A pretty place would be a plus.
Thinking of pushing to third week in Jan now.
With that being said, and the desire for a short transfer, is there anywhere else you would recommend?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Personally I wouldn't worry about it being pretty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder anyway. And you need to focus on the skiing. If the gf doesn't take to it going to a chocolate box ain't gonna fix it and actually you might screw up the skiing side of it trying to do that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| afterski wrote: |
Obergurgl and Avoriaz for snow in the village, Lech (if you are less cost conscious).
One thing to consider is do you want a pretty place? Avoriaz is not pretty. Les Deux Alps and Alps D'Huez are not pretty either but are very high. |
Are Obergurgl and Lech pretty? Good for beginners?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Astontech, those places in Avoriaz look decent enough although you could score an apartment for a week for the same price they charge for 3 nights. When I priced up the second one for a week in mid-Jan it was saying just shy of 1200 Euros (for a 26m2 place). That is expensive. I would expect to pay 500/600 Euros (which is what they are charging for 3 random nights in mid-Jan that I chose.
I have skied a lot of in France (3V, Paradiski, Tignes/Val D, ADH, Serre Chev, Chamonix, Les Contamines, La Norma) but never Portes Du Soleil (which is the area Avoriaz is). Reason being I've always found it complicated to figure out, I go early and late season and I am suspicious of conditions/connections. Seems to be suit families. Not saying don't go there though - plenty on here do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
When you say good for beginners as mentioned above what you need is good ski instruction and convenience (having a long walk, bus ride to get to your meeting point is a pain). All ski areas have slopes for beginners and if you are with an instructor they will know where to go. Even Val D'Isere, well known for challenging skiing, has a good beginners area/slopes. The good thing about being a beginner is you can go to a smaller ski area that means cheaper lift passes and probably apartment/restaurant prices.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Short transfer is certainly important if only going for 3 days. Have you looked at flight times yet? Evening flights means you go the most ski time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Could you go Christmas week - you have 2 bank holidays so only need 3 days holiday?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Astontech, only 3 nights. Are you adding a weeknd to this or is it just a long weekend?
I now see why you want a short transfer - ski on the last day and get a late flight home. I've done this to Les Arcs (2:30 drive back), Crolles (skied in Charmrouse, which may be a reasnoble choice but a long transfer, and Les Sept Laux) and Gressony (fly to Turin or Malpensa and from there it is a quick transfer)
Make sure you are not trying to do a transfer on a Saturday
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Sorry to complicate matters further but early season it's good to have access to tree line slopes as when you get bad weather these are still nice to ski. Later season tend to get less stormy weather and it blows over quicker and days are longer so less of an issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Astontech wrote: |
| afterski wrote: |
Obergurgl and Avoriaz for snow in the village, Lech (if you are less cost conscious).
One thing to consider is do you want a pretty place? Avoriaz is not pretty. Les Deux Alps and Alps D'Huez are not pretty either but are very high. |
Are Obergurgl and Lech pretty? Good for beginners? |
Yes and yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
