 Poster: A snowHead
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Enclosed please find information about a new product, Ski Finder and Avalanche Rescue.
This product was developed out of a need by an advanced skier, based on his personal skiing experience.
The product is more a service to the powder addicts community and its price hardly covers the manufacturing costs (less than half the price of a daily ski-pass: US$ 35 including shipping).
The Ski Finder and Avalanche Rescue device can be better than a transceiver.
The transceiver will give you a zero point, but this might be up to 1 m (3 ft) or more from the buried person, and when you have to move 1 ton of snow to rescue the person, That Means Alive Or Not.
The product is mainly designed for Off-Piste skiers and Powder addicts, and will increase the chances of Surviving an Avalanche, or Finding a Lost Ski in Deep Powder.
The concept of this product incorporates 2 small pouches attached to the skiers’ legs. When the ski detaches from the Skier's boot, it will pull out a red strap highly visible.
1) In the Avalanche Rescue mode, it deploys two highly visible Red Straps 5 m' (16.4 ft) long, one strap attached to each leg, noticeable by the rescue team.
2) In the Ski Finder mode if a ski detaches from the boot while powder skiing, a highly visible Red Strap 5 m' (16.4 ft) long, trailing behind the ski, will make it easy for ski retrieval.
If you need additional information, please visit my website: https://www.ski-finder-avalanche-rescue.com
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So... You've reinvented powder traces/ribbons?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@adithorp,
Not exactly. If you visit my website you will find the difference.
I tested many times until I made the best product to my opinion.
The force needed to separate the straps will never cause any damage to the skier, yet will pull out the straps.
The pouches are very small and this product was made to do its job.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kinda relying on the strap not getting wrapped round the victim as they move through the avalanche and it remaining visible. Anyway, I'm a snowboarder so...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How have you tested that the strap won't get detached from the skier by the avalanche? The result of which would be recuers looking in the wrong place and the victims possible death.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@adithorp, the high quality images on his page should make everything abundantly clear 
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Missing a trick - the powderhound community will all have transceivers, the grizzled beard community with see these as avi chords and get all rheumy-eyed about them, maybe go dig them out of their retired Fairisle jumper drawer.
But, the Freestyle community... This is an untapped group! Pay out your colourful ribbons and they'll trace out your corked 720 off the big booter like a rhythmic gymnast for ultimate hang-time! Stylish and adding flair to your tricks, plus you can sell multiple colours, not just red.
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Slow down. I don't need you to buy my product, and as I mentioned, the cost is more a service to the powder addicted community that I am part of it.
It is not designed for snowboarders.
Regardless your opinion I am proud of it.
There is a new season ahead, so with my product or not: See You On The Slopes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've looked at the website and videos there but it's not clear how the tape knows whether to say attached to your ski or you. Or do you choose in advance which is going to happen?
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Unfortunately you seem to have spam posted to every corner of Snowheads, so any leniency the community would previously have offered your product has very much gone.
| adithorp wrote: |
| How have you tested that the strap won't get detached from the skier by the avalanche? The result of which would be recuers looking in the wrong place and the victims possible death. |
Hey, I may be dead but at least I know someone has my skis.
I don't think the idea is quite as terrible as some seem to suggest, but possibly only as something additional to transceiver. The idea of these somehow being an alternative to a bleep is, quite frankly, terrifying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| I've looked at the website and videos there but it's not clear how the tape knows whether to say attached to your ski or you. Or do you choose in advance which is going to happen? |
maybe they're smart-ribbons?
Or maybe both could might happen, leaving the possibility of skis, pretty ribbons and body in 3 separate locations. Genius!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@adithorp,
There are two straps connected with a velcro tape, that will detach once the ski detaches from your boot in a fall or in an avalanche.
One strap stays linked to your foot as it is sewed to the pouch that is connected to your foot, and is pulled by the ski that has the other strap connected to it.
The rescue team will see 2 straps: That makes it easy to locate and if they pull the first strap and it is not you, the other strap is certainly you.
And the force required to detach the straps is 5 kg (tested). That will not harm the skier but will pull the other strap.
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| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
@adithorp,
There are two straps connected with a velcro tape, that will detach once the ski detaches from your boot in a fall or in an avalanche.
One strap stays linked to your foot as it is sewed to the pouch that is connected to your foot, and is pulled by the ski that has the other strap connected to it.
The rescue team will see 2 straps: That makes it easy to locate and if they pull the first strap and it is not you, the other strap is certainly you.
And the force required to detach the straps is 5 kg (tested). That will not harm the skier but will pull the other strap. |
Yeah you're in a avalanche you really want rescuers to be wasting time digging up your skis x2 rather than you . As a minimum you want the two parts of the strap to be different colours with markings on the ski parts to be clearly worded "SKI ONLY" and the human part to be "VICTIM", and ideally your colour scheme communicated to a recognised international standard.
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You know it makes sense.
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So there is 5m of tape attached to each foot and each ski? 20m total, and 4 free ends to pull?
| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
| That will not harm the skier |
I don't think the slight tugging was the major concern of harm to the victim, more the idea of multiple lengths of tape cheese-wiring his/her head off in said avalanche...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The idea is not to dig but, first to pull. If they pull the strap attached to the ski, the ski shows up easily.
If they pull the other strap, they will know.
Like any other device it won't dig out by itself. All the devices are designed to locate easy and fast.
With this product you don't need to use your probe, that is time consuming by itself.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
The idea is not to dig but, first to pull. If they pull the strap attached to the ski, the ski shows up easily.
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Have you ever seen avalanche debris? It sets hard and quickly. A strap isn't going to pull a ski out easily. Have you ever even recovered a submarined ski in deep snow - you have to dig considerably to free up any bits that are catching.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Dave of the Marmottes,
Yes. I've seen.
I managed to rescue my ski after I lost once one(a pair) in deep powder.
Fortunately, I haven't personally tested my product in an avalanche, and I pray that I never will.
As I mentioned: this product came out of a need and my personal experience.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Yeah you're in a avalanche you really want rescuers to be wasting time digging up your skis x2 rather than you |
As I said, at least I'd die knowing that my skis were safe. That's rule 1, it's all about the kit.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@SnoodlesMcFlude,
Not exactly.
Your skis will be probably scattered somewhere around and the rescue team will see 2 separate straps far away on the field.
If they see 2 straps closed one to the other they will assume that 2 legs are around. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Joe Axelrad, actually they'll get out their transceiver and search for the beeping noise.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@SnoodlesMcFlude, at least they can home in on the 2 straps, assuming they understand the product.....
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@Joe Axelrad, What steps have you made to educate ski patrols around the world about your product? For that matter what discussions have you had with any patrolller re your product to validate and troubleshoot it?
We've already had a couple of suggestions on here from amateurs on ways it might be improved to be less self defeating.
From the defensive way you are arguing I suspect you've launched a "safety" product without consultation and with a lot of reliance on assumptions about how professionals are going to behave let alone amateur companions etc.
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| @Joe Axelrad, actually they'll get out their transceiver and search for the beeping noise. |
A transceiver is good, however it will give you a triangulated zero point and it might be 1 m or more from the buried person, and then you have to search with the probe.
The distance of 1 m means about 1 ton of snow and the time it takes to dig such an amount can result in dead or alive.
This product gives you the exact point, and not to mention the difference in price between a few hundreds US$ and its price $35, that hardly covers the manufacturing and shipping cost.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wrong.
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| From the defensive way you are arguing .... |
I am not defeating, I explain. Your remarks and mine, are just explaining it more, and for that I thank you.
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| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| @Joe Axelrad, actually they'll get out their transceiver and search for the beeping noise. |
A transceiver is good, however it will give you a triangulated zero point and it might be 1 m or more from the buried person, and then you have to search with the probe.
The distance of 1 m means about 1 ton of snow and the time it takes to dig such an amount can result in dead or alive.
This product gives you the exact point, and not to mention the difference in price between a few hundreds US$ and its price $35, that hardly covers the manufacturing and shipping cost. |
Bro learn when to give it a rest, learn to be humble and accept criticism and shortcomings in your ways, learn from the experience of others how to better your product, after all your goal is to sell it right - this is why you came to our community and started pushing your crap product all over the place today.
You do realise that with your "life saving product" the person would be buried under exactly the same amount of snow as the person wearing a transceiver. Secondly your tape would not be directly above the person, you assume it would even be at the surface - yet you haven't done any product testing. I would bet heavily that if the tape would be at the surface it would be at some angle, so you would need to probe to understand exactly where someone is, otherwise according to your fake statistics of 1m of snow weighting 1 ton you would be expending alot of effort digging in the wrong place.
I don't know why the admins haven't come along to remove you and your crap from this forum - also your website just screams built in a basement by a teenager trying to scam someone of money.
I wish you the best of luck though in your efforts.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 2-11-20 14:27; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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IIRC there have been studies done on avalanche cords, and the results weren't very favourable, much better with a transceiver. Promote your product as a ski finder, but please not for avalanche rescue.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Am I missing something?
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A transceiver is good, however it will give you a triangulated zero point and it might be 1 m or more from the buried person
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| Quote: |
In the Avalanche Rescue mode, it deploys two highly visible Red Straps 5 m' (16.4 ft) long, one strap attached to each leg, noticeable by the rescue team.
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So 5m or less is better than 1m or more... depending on how you quantify more / less. ??
Do the straps have directional arrows, so if you find the middle of them you know which way to go?
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| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
A transceiver is good, however it will give you a triangulated zero point and it might be 1 m or more from the buried person, and then you have to search with the probe.
The distance of 1 m means about 1 ton of snow and the time it takes to dig such an amount can result in dead or alive.
This product gives you the exact point, and not to mention the difference in price between a few hundreds US$ and its price $35, that hardly covers the manufacturing and shipping cost. |
I feels it's kinda useless to even discuss this, but still... First, with transceiver you come basically to few 10cm of the person. Then you use probe to locate person to 0cm accurately. That's quite good thing, and realistically, you normally don't need more then few strikes with probe to hit target (if doing it right).
With your 5m strap, you are 5m away from person (if that strap is even on surface and visible). You have no idea where person is, nor how deep it is. So you can start digging from place where strap is visible, and then you can dig 5m far or deep to come to person. Unfortunately I have been digging people out of avalanche already, and I can tell you, there's i no f** way you will pull the cord and drag anything out of avalanche... not ski and certainly not person. I guess it would work, if you have powerfull winch there and instead of cord some metal wire, but then it can actually happen, you will tear leg of the body and bring only leg to surface, which I also doubt is good outcome.
Like I said, you have obviously no idea how real avalanche debris look like and how these things work. Cords, balloons etc. were in use as "avi kit" ages ago, before transceiver appeared. After transceivers appeared, even early versions, which were much worse then today's, these things went to history. So it's not really something new that you invented, but it's certainly something that was in use ages ago, and is proven to work much worse then today's avi equipment.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| @Joe Axelrad, actually they'll get out their transceiver and search for the beeping noise. |
A transceiver is good, however it will give you a triangulated zero point and it might be 1 m or more from the buried person, and then you have to search with the probe.
The distance of 1 m means about 1 ton of snow and the time it takes to dig such an amount can result in dead or alive.
This product gives you the exact point, |
You say the cord is 5 metres in length, therefore the visible cord on the surface (if even still attached to the victim) could be anything up to 5 metres from the victim. (NB not many 5 metre avalanche probes on the market) So your 'exact point' isn't exact at all.
I'm out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| From the defensive way you are arguing... |
| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
| Wrong. |
What's defensive about that? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I agree with some of the comments, having seen avalanche debris it sets like concrete, and a hard work digging, coming from a Ski Patroller friend in COLO, who knows from experience every min is life threateningly valuable.
Mins can be wasted can be lost tracing skis.Instead of the rescue team want to go straight on to finding bodys.which a transceiver does.
If you market it as a ski finder in it principal it sounds good, but needs more testing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| MagSeven wrote: |
| Joe Axelrad wrote: |
| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| @Joe Axelrad, actually they'll get out their transceiver and search for the beeping noise. |
A transceiver is good, however it will give you a triangulated zero point and it might be 1 m or more from the buried person, and then you have to search with the probe.
The distance of 1 m means about 1 ton of snow and the time it takes to dig such an amount can result in dead or alive.
This product gives you the exact point, |
You say the cord is 5 metres in length, therefore the visible cord on the surface (if even still attached to the victim) could be anything up to 5 metres from the victim. (NB not many 5 metre avalanche probes on the market) So your 'exact point' isn't exact at all.
I'm out. |
what used to happen with cords is that you tugged on them until you were vertically over the victim - but they were cord like a 6mm climbing cord so would cut through debris.
That said, no evidence that they ever saved any lives.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You see just part or the end of the strap, and you pull it toward the end there it feels resistance and you follow it until you get to the location of the buried person below the strap.
However, you will have to use a probe to search for the exact location, but the strap will give you, as much as you can follow, the location where the victim is.
| Tubaski wrote: |
Am I missing something?
So 5m or less is better than 1m or more... depending on how you quantify more / less. ?? Do the straps have directional arrows, so if you find the middle of them you know which way to go? |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You're still deliberately missing the point that a strap probably won't cut through debris (and is almost certatinly farked if there are elements of tree debris in there). Yeah happy days if you've got the right part attached to a human and you can use it to cut through so that in the end you are vertically above vic with a known depth of burial (you have got the strap marked in length gradations haven't you?). But what's your data on how often that happens?
I don't think the idea is totally insane (apart from having exactly the same straps attached to your skis) and neither were avy cords. Could be a useful surface indicator of zone to start the search. But I still think as a minimum probing required and probably most pros or well trained people would be in tranny search anyway. And imagine being a rescuer who wastes time digging out a ribbon that has torn off rather than following established protocols.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Joe Axelrad, I think you can take this product to another level, Why not attach auto inflate balloons to the end of the ribbons. For one ribbons generally get buried in the snow during an avalanche. With the balloon attached the largest item would rise to the surface.
Next you could attach an auto delay flare or explosive to the end of the victims ribbon so their location erupts and gives a location that could be within 5 meters.
The rescuer could then race to the 5 meter zone and commence a detailed search with a transceiver.
Its the most ridiculous product I've ever heard of - powder traces cost next to nothing and are of very little value.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You are right Dave.
I cannot know if I am vertically above the victim. This product will give me a fast visible location where the victim is located.
The final location, should be determined by a probe.
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I've literally made my own powder traces by taking a length of orange hazard tape and affixing a rubber band round them to attach to binding brakes. Total cost basically nil. Used them about twice on big days before decideing they were too much faff and it was easier to concentrate on staying upright.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ...I don't think the idea is totally insane (apart from having exactly the same straps attached to your skis) and neither were avy cords. Could be a useful surface indicator of zone to start the search. ... |
This.
Not a substitute for transceivers, but in addition. Anything that can help quickly narrow down the potential search area - particularly if there are only one or two rescuers - is useful. Spot the cord and start a transceiver search in that area.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry to be blunt, but I think it sounds terrible. Good luck though and congratulations on having the get up and go to make it and put it out there. Someone will like it I'm sure
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| extremerob wrote: |
| ... I don't know why the admins haven't come along to remove you and your crap from this forum - also your website just screams built in a basement by a teenager trying to scam someone of money. ... |
Ah but they did - he necroed/ spammed lots of threads, they just let this one live because it's kind of funny watching him squirm.
Well, I assume that's their motivation, but they did take action.
Hardly a new idea. Stuff people hope their friends never buy as a present.
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FAQ
