My daughter is doing her BASI Level-1 4-day course in a few weeks.
I'm driving her each day - It's a pretty unpleasant 45 min commute to the venue - rush hour morning and evening for pick up and drop off.. soo here's a thought -"why dont I save the planet and just do the course too?"
Do you think it's worth me spending £459 (plud BASI membership) for 4 days BASI Level-1 instruction of technique & teaching, just for me? Even though I obviously won't be progressing to become an actual instructor, I am thinking this is probably pretty good "best-practice" stuff.
Would YOU consider doing that?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 23-05-23 7:02; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I don't think they do much teach on an L1, largely getting people's skiing up to standard to do the L2. That doesn't mean things like the central theme won't be discussed but more with respect to your own personal performance.
Hard to say if it is worth doing. You'd need to look at what else you can buy. If you are a good skier then a week's performance lessons may be better value.
If you need to deconstruct your current ski technique in order to have a sound base for future progression it might be a good course to do.
If you need technique coaching then the Inside Out type offering has merits.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 22-05-23 19:44; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Maybe if you really want to perfect your snowplough........
Maybe if you really want to perfect your snowplough........
I didn't know you had done the BASI 1. Not that you are wrong though...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've done an IASI L1 course indoors in the UK not BASI, but certainly on my course I came out a better skier, and we weren't looking at just getting to the standard (I was above it going in to the course) but continued to push our skiing as far beyond the standard as possible.
I don't think it'll be the worst £459 you spend. Would I rather spend it on a course in the mountains, sure, but you'll come out of it a better skier.
My daughter is doing her BASI Level-1 4-day course in in a few weeks.
I'm driving her each day - It's a pretty unpleasant 45 min commute to the venue - rush hour morning and evening for pick up and drop off.. soo here's a thought -"why dont I save the planet and just do the course too?"
Do you think it's worth me spending £459 (plud BASI membership) for 4 days BASI Level-1 instruction of technique & teaching, just for me? Even though I obviously won't be progressing to become an actual instructor, I am thinking this is probably pretty good "best-practice" stuff.
Would YOU consider doing that?
Personally no but as I understand it a high proportion of people taking BASI 1 have no intention of becoming a ski instructor so I doubt you'll be alone.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@AntonAusTirol, I've done BASI 1 and I found it useful for emphasising the core balance and it improved my short turns. I also have a better body position now and on my recent ski trip I noticed a difference.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@AntonAusTirol, Why not? I'm guessing 45 mins each way, so that's an hour and half of your time not wasted, plus fuel saving costs to be deducted from your course fee. The Central Theme is a series of building blocks up to Parallel turns so not just snow ploughing and it will help you to understand balance and posture when you are skiing on more challenging terrain. Plus of course, time well spent with your Daughter who will no doubt want to show she's better than Dad. As a BASI member you might also benifit from Insurance and member deals as well.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jedster wrote:
Personally no but as I understand it a high proportion of people taking BASI 1 have no intention of becoming a ski instructor so I doubt you'll be alone.
Ditto. Would you get something out of it if you HAD to do it? : almost certainly. Would it be the absolute best use of those sking hours for personal performance? : almost certainly not.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Grüß Gott, Anton, every little helps.
Its only the price of a pair of skis.
But it is the first step on a path.
I've not done one myself.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Is it a pure technique course or does it cover the teaching elements too? If it's pure tech then you'll get more out of it I'd expect.
How much you'll get out of it depends on your current standard compared to the BASI L1 level, a quick search of YouTube should give you an idea of BASI levels.
The BASI trainers tend to be excellent teachers (at least from my experience) and if you really hit it off you could track them down for mountain coaching another time.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'd let my daughter do the course without the distraction of a parent being there.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If you have to ask, you should do it.
If you’re already a high level skier, ex-racer, most likely not worth it. If you think your fundamental is already pretty solid, you probably would not get much out of it either, etc, etc, etc…
But if you have any inkling that your fundamental could use some improvement, you most likely will benefit from such a course.
And it sounds like that £459 won’t put your family in the poor house. Nor even impact on your next season’s ski holidays. It’s hard to calculate exactly how much improvement you ought to get from that amount of money. Suffice to know there will be significant benefits.
zikomo wrote:
pam w wrote:
Maybe if you really want to perfect your snowplough........
I didn't know you had done the BASI 1. Not that you are wrong though...
It’s surprising that perfecting snowlough can do to many people’s skiing.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Mon 22-05-23 22:16; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
+1 on perfecting the snowplough being a good addition to the toolbox.
I am a fan of slow speed skiing though and I can't say it's to everyone's taste.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Henwc wrote:
+1 on perfecting the snowplough being a good addition to the toolbox.
I am a fan of slow speed skiing though and I can't say it's to everyone's taste.
Slow skiing is challenging, and few can do it well. Hence why it is not to everyone's taste! But I agree it is a fantastic teaching tool.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I recall when my wife first did a combined L1/2 course (in Argentina, as it happens) it made a huge difference to her skiing. She was already a competent skier, had been a SCGB rep for some years and was used to leading, but the technical demos required helped her to focus on aspects which had earlier seemed less relevant.
I did my L1 and L2 a season, and a half, later, and certainly would agree that the L1 on its own didn't really give me any improvement; perhaps a better understanding, sure, and this was then useful when I did the L2, at which point it was clear that my overall on-piste skiing was better.
But really it was only when doing the L3 that I really felt that I was getting to be quite good, and for the cost of that many courses I'm pretty sure I could have had several weeks' private lessons with Phil Smith or similar to achieve a similar improvement. The main difference though is that going through the BASI system provides a structure and motivation, so where in real-world skiing you'd tend to say "that's good enough" you're forced to focus, focus, focus to get up to the required standard.
I've no regrets, apart from not doing it earlier, but yeah, I'd be cautious about expectations from the L1, and realistically if she's no intention of following through to the higher levels, and indeed, the ability to be skiing for 30-40 days per season to actually work on the things she's learning, then it might perhaps not be the best investment.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
zikomo wrote:
Henwc wrote:
+1 on perfecting the snowplough being a good addition to the toolbox.
I am a fan of slow speed skiing though and I can't say it's to everyone's taste.
Slow skiing is challenging, and few can do it well. Hence why it is not to everyone's taste! But I agree it is a fantastic learning tool.
Speed masks a lot of balance problems. Worse, a lot of skiers with balance issues would turn to further mask it.
Though I don’t think that’s why people don’t like skiing slowly. After all, speed is fun. And that’s what skiing is about for most people. No shame on that.
It’s just if you want to improve your skiing, then skiing slowly and feel your balance is an important part of the learning process.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
abc wrote:
zikomo wrote:
Slow skiing is challenging, and few can do it well. Hence why it is not to everyone's taste! But I agree it is a fantastic learning tool.
Speed masks a lot of balance problems. Worse, a lot of skiers with balance issues would turn to further mask it.
I'm not sure it's specifically related to balance issues, simply that slowing down the turn allows, and requires, a degree of precision that is really difficult to see, feel or demonstrate when you're going faster. Yes, as a learning/teaching tool it can be very useful, highlighting issues that may otherwise be missed or masked, but it's also very useful in its own right when skiing in poor visibility, for example.
Oh, and re the comments above on snowplough, that's not what I'm talking about here, but proper short turns (as BASI define them) performed very slowly.
To ski those basic levels that well requires you to be seriously good at skiing, and that will flow through to your upper end skiing techniques.
There's lots of chat here about skiing a lot of snowplough, and there's no doubting you will, but if a BASI L1 is anything like an IASI L1, there's a lot more to it than just skiing snowplough the whole week.
2nd point, I passed my L3 tech this April, and the week before that, I did a training week with Warren Smith Ski Academy, we were a mix of L3's and 4's, mainly 3's. There was though 1 guy who was taking the L4 tech exam who was 64, with absolutely no intentions of teaching, but, was using it as a way of improving and also as a benchmark.
Outside of competition, freestyle, freeride and racing there's no real benchmark, so some people like to use the instructor exams for that reason, and also to give you a "pathway" if that's what you fancy.
Each to their own, i'd advocate taking the course, but would understand why you might not.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
Outside of competition, freestyle, freeride and racing there's no real benchmark, so some people like to use the instructor exams for that reason, and also to give you a "pathway" if that's what you fancy.
Not everyone needs any kind of ‘benchmark’. But everyone wants to improve, or at least they think they do.
I was involved in youth sport at an early age, with a rather serious coach. So I’m familiar with the endless drills of boring single movement tasks. When I started skiing as an adult, I found it very different. The focus was on quickly get the learners to slide down the hill in some semblance of control. On the one hand, I found the approach very practical. On the other hand, I can see the limitation of that approach.
As adult learners move towards higher levels of performance, that lack of refinement in the basics which only comes from endless drills of boring movements can become a serious limitation. How to balance those boring exercises vs having fun in order to see improvement can only be decided by the individual learner.
So yeah, “perfecting the snowplough” is seriously important, if you’re serious about improving to a higher level. The beauty of a course in the snow dome is you get to save your holiday in the Alps for just skiing, at a better level.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 22-05-23 23:22; edited 1 time in total
Not everyone needs any kind of ‘benchmark’. But everyone wants to improve, or at least they think they do.
Agreed, and it'll be different for each individual. I know from my experience I was a decent skier, and had improved by skiing with better skiers after a number of years of plateauing. Since starting the instructor route my skiing has improved massively. Could it have done so through coaching holidays/ instruction on holiday, for sure, but the instructor route had other reasoning behind it also. I think the fact I knew I needed to ski to a certain level to pass exams gave me some focus on improving.
abc wrote:
The beauty of a course in the snow dome is you get to save your holiday in the Alps for just skiing, at a better level.
100%, and the reason I did my L1 indoors spread across 2 weekends was that it meant I didn't use up annual to do the same thing out in the alps.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Since starting the instructor route my skiing has improved massively. Could it have done so through coaching holidays/ instruction on holiday, for sure, but the instructor route had other reasoning behind it also.
I can’t be 100% certain, but I believe my improvement is from actual teaching. Having to do umpteen demonstration of snowplough at slow speed (and side slips, stem-to-parallel, etc.) for my students was what did it for me. I could FEEL the difference as I did them for the hundredth time.
Until I started teaching, I couldn’t bring myself to do those boring movements while paying for the lift pass. I just wanted to ski. And even when I did them in classes as a student, I didn’t do them the “right way”. I only did them the way I felt comfortable. But as an instructor, I had a duty to demonstrate the way it’s meant to be done. Or as close to it as I could make it. Lo and behold, my balance on ski improved massively. What I thought was counter-intuitive motions actually works!
After all it is free
After all it is free
swskier wrote:
There's lots of chat here about skiing a lot of snowplough,
one person above raised the subject, and it is a kind of snowheads joke, not meant to be taken too seriously.
Last edited by After all it is free on Tue 23-05-23 8:56; edited 1 time in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Chaletbeauroc wrote:
The main difference though is that going through the BASI system provides a structure and motivation, so where in real-world skiing you'd tend to say "that's good enough" you're forced to focus, focus, focus to get up to the required standard.
I think that is the main difference. You'll have to ski a range of techniques you may not pay much attention to normally, go back to basics, and reach the required standard.
The instructors I've skied with (outside of BASI) have always been "ok that's good enough, let's move on" whereas with BASI you'll go over and over until it is done to standard. High level coaching can be the same, where you might spend hours doing the same thing until it is right. Far beyond what a normal learner would tolerate. I remember one of the UK national team telling me she spent a week on one aspect of her skiing, needless to say BASI was a mere formality for her and she was used by the trainer to do demos.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@AntonAusTirol, Def worth a go. Probably a good investment to have a trip to the dome first to get your ski feet back. Also, even though you not planning to go any further, well worth gooing through the pre-course material on the BASI Study App. Understanding the words BASI use to describe skiing before you start the course wll really help.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
i dont know about BASI etc . I have done the level 1 snowboard in from the DSLV (German)
I have to admit that after the 1 week preparation course my boarding ability was almost 40-50% above as before.
Dont know really why. I think is what someone here mentioned : alone i did things when i thought the conditions are the appropriate. During the course i had to do things to follow the course that i will never decided to do it alone
Maybe only a simple skill building course could also bring the same results. No idea
Since that point i never teached as an instructor, but i would love to go for the L2 and more, however with 48 y old, fullttime job, full time dad, etc etc hitting the snow park preparing my self for the L2 exams it is not the best idea.
my conclusion : if the money / time it is not a problem, go for it.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
my conclusion : if the money / time it is not a problem, go for it.
That’s precisely why the OP asked. Having to drive his/her daughter to and back, 1.5 hr in the morning and 1.5 hr in the evening, time is already set aside.
As the OP already asked whether it’s “worth it” or not, I gather the money isn’t the issue. Just whether there will be benefit from spending the money.
It really depends what technical level the OP is at. Only the OP knows whether a “back to basic” intensive training will be beneficial. Many of us felt it is, however “unexpected” it may seem
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It's amazing how many people come for a dry slope lesson, and they can ski, but they actually have very little idea of what they are doing. You slow them down, take them back to a few basics, explain about basic elements, and they have their eyes opened and thank you for it. Mind you there are just as many who just carry on doing what they already do, without seemingly making any effort to do anything differently! And I have to say, not meaning to be sexist in any way, but it is usually men who fall into the latter category.
My advice would be to go for it. I also know the OP's pain with the ferrying, having done it from Guildford to Hemel with my son about 12 years ago.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So you're paying £80 per hour not to sit in traffic and instead to have skis on. And you need to ask the question?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
OP here
Thanks everybody. Encouraged by your comments, I booked onto my daughter's BASI L1 course at the last minute (with her full approval and amusement).
Having now completed the course, I would say every one of your comments was spookily accurate.
Anecdotally over the 4 days we got about 9hrs of technique training/ assessment and 12 hrs of "central theme" teaching practice/assessment. Every minute of the course was challenging, informative and engaging.
We both passed, but I personally found the "pass or fail" nature of the qualification extremely stressful. There is no doubt that the fear of failure was a strong motivator to bring up my fast/loose/backseat technique to BASI standard. I really doubt I could have changed my skiing that much that quickly without the pass/fail fear hanging over me.
The group was a fun eclectic mix. It was really interesting to see the younger ones develop massively and breeze the technicals, whereas us old dogs were struggling to unlearn 30+ years of baked-in skiing.
I won’t forget the course - it really pushed me out of my comfort zone and unlocked the door that leads to much better skiing. Fingers crossed that my BASI technique brainwashing doesn't come undone before next season.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@AntonAusTirol, glad you enjoyed it, and congratulations on passing.
Do you think you'll go on and do the shadowing, or just leave it at that?
Do you feel like the changes you made have made you a better skier?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@AntonAusTirol, Well done! Glad you enjoyed it!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@AntonAusTirol, thanks for that very clear report - congratulations.
@AntonAusTirol, welcome to the club and congratulations.
What you said about unlearning bad habits is so true.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thank you very much!
Quote:
Do you think you'll go on and do the shadowing, or just leave it at that?
My daughter is sorting her shadowing now. I don't think I will progress with the shadowing/instructing at the moment; I can't fit it in. (Although, wait for the U-turn on that, when she starts bugging me for lifts to shadowing sessions)
Quote:
Do you feel like the changes you made have made you a better skier?
Well we have definitely been given the tools to become much more technically proficient skiers. It will be interesting to see how that translates into extra fun on the mountain. I'm a little embarrassed to say, amongst such rarefied talent as yourselves, that most of my skiing fun comes from messing around in the snowpark and from free-falling down empty pistes. So to get "better" at those activities I still need more coaching.
And that is my biggest realisation from the course - knowing that I can still respond positively to coaching, even at my advanced years (50). So I will certainly be getting more coaching next season on the mountain. I will probably stick to pure technique work - like a 5 day course in Kaprun, something like https://www.siaaustria.com/product/performance-ski-clinic/ . Before the L1 I wouldn't have considered that. But right now, I can't wait.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@AntonAusTirol, 50, you’re a spring chicken on here.
One thing I found great for balance is a simple slow ski…. Parallel into plough and finish on one ski, then move to shot turns on an alternating single ski (one ski on the turn).
I found that it pushed me into a better balance.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@AntonAusTirol, PS
Just go on a SH bash. It covers everything. skiing, people talking sense about skiing, people taking sh1te about skiing, beer/wine and good laughs.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
One thing I found great for balance is a simple slow ski…. Parallel into plough and finish on one ski, then move to shot turns on an alternating single ski (one ski on the turn).
I was terrified of the slow skiing assessment on the L1. My "Plough parallel" was probably my weakest drill; often lifting the inside ski. So yes I'm looking forward to doing slow drill stuff like that on the mountain, whilst I'm waiting for everyone to catch up .
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@AntonAusTirol, I think like me, doing the L1 has really given you the bug for improvement. You were obviously a decent skier beforehand, and doing the courses really opens your eyes to wanting to improve further.
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Poster: A snowHead
