Knee contusion strapping

A snowHead

I fell while running at the end of July and bashed my knee. It did not pop, but I did not like the feel of the bash and decided to limp back rather than run through what I would normally treat as a skint knee.

A month and a half later I still have no pain walking or running, but there can occasionally be a sharp pain when bending the knee past 90 degrees. There is also still a contusion at the top of the kneecap where the skin was broken.

I have been running regularly since then, but decided to add some kneecap support (in order to learn how to do this with kinesiology tape).

I have followed the instructions online regarding a kneecap stabilising taping. This seems to allow me to bend my knee beyond 90 degrees without feeling any sharp pain. (probably some contused tendons micro tearing)

Am I wasting my time doing this, will it cause any harm? Puzzled

A snowHead

you could actually just go to the doctors or a physio....

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Bigtipper, you're wasting your time, and money.

Taping has no medical nor scientific basis and was invented by a chiropractor to make even more quack money.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@under a new name, no money spent I already have the tape.

@holidayloverxx, if it was causing me a problem walking, or running I would be concerned enough to do so. As neither is a problem, and I am not in any pain, it is just a longer recovery than a usual skint knee.

@adithorp, this is why I experiment and try to gain some knowledge. If we all went to the doctors or physio when we had a skint knee, you would find it very difficult to get an appointment.

What I have done seems to be effective. It is only on for about 2-3 days. It less irritating than a full on knee support brace which just presses on the contusion.

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@Bigtipper, the fact you have an ongoing problem that you want to treat suggests it could benefit from being looked at. You should be able to get a private physio appointments easily enough.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Quote from Web MD..

"Evidence Lacking

There has not been conclusive scientific or medical evidence to confirm the effectiveness of the tape. A review of evidence from 10 research papers for Kinesio tape to treat and prevent sports injuries was published in the journal Sports Medicine in February.

No clinically important results were found to support the tape's use for pain relief.
There were inconsistent range-of-motion results.
Seven outcomes relating to strength were beneficial.
The tape had some substantial effects on muscle activity, but it was not clear whether these changes were beneficial or harmful.
The study concluded there was little quality evidence to support the use of Kinesio tape over other types of elastic taping to manage or prevent sports injuries.

Some experts have suggested there may be a placebo effect in using the tape, with athletes believing it will be helpful."

I can't see any benefit of private physio appointment for something which needs a little bit of time to heal on its own.

After all it is free

@Bigtipper, do nothing then (even though you don't have any idea whether it will heal on its own)..

I can't see why you even started the thread TBH

@holidayloverxx, it is getting better but it remains a small issue. This is how I know it will heal on its own. I want to prevent making it worse by supporting it while it is healing.

I posted the thread as I do not know if I am wasting my time, or if I will cause any harm.

I am probably wasting my time, and it will not cause any harm. Just like putting a big plaster on my knee will not harm me.

However, anecdotally I can say I feel no tearing of the healing area when I bend my knee more than 90 degrees. Which psychologically is a good thing as it makes me believe it is healing.

I suppose it is a bit like the scab on my knee. When I bent my knee more than 90 degrees the scab would crack and I would feel pain. The scab has gone now, but under the skin there is still a scab.

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I suppose what I was looking for was any evidence of anyone harming themselves by using elasticated plasters?

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@Bigtipper, I'm sure it is possible.

Not sure why I'd waste my time/energy on them tho'. Quite sure why I wouldn't.

Just to say that last year I was seeing an ex England Rugby team physio, Paul Frawley, for caf muscle / Achilles issues and he did advocate tape*, and it's quite a popular protocol for calf muscle, Achilles.

And even before Kinesio tape, I know from experience that physios were advocating tape for kneecap stability.

http://youtube.com/v/E3rA_w9WM6w

Currently, I'm testing the B-Cure Laser Pro, and still too early to be sure, but would say signs are positive, have also been using it on my knee...........but with me and the abuse I still give my body at my age, I'll try anything to keep going Laughing

*though in my case as I sweat like a pig it came off very quickly!

You know it makes sense.

http://youtube.com/v/aPkmo5Xqqtw

This is similar to my second attempt to tape my knee up. (to stabilise the patella while the contusion heals)

There are other methods for runners knee, and other knee problems, which I might try next time.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Patella taping was advocated by my hubby's physio (his Dad) in 2002 (ish) when we went to Banff, and he had knee problems before we went. Taping allowed him to ski every day, the day he forgot to tape, he could only ski for an hour or so before stopping. It stabilised the patella and allowed him to recover afterwards too. FIL was a well respected Sports Medicine Physiotherapist and Osteopath with an additional qualification in Podiatry.

A snowHead

This is my knee, (blue) taped by a sports physio in 2014. I can't remember why I had it taped, I think it was because it hurt like buggery after a week's skiing (post TPF and stretched MCL). it worked.

The beige tape was done by Jonathan Bell's physio before the return to ski after injury day in 2013, 6 months after the TPF/MCL

My point here is I think taping is beneficial, but I'd rather my physio did it as they know why it needs to be done and how to do it correctly for a specific issue

A snowHead

@holidayloverxx, I agree. Hubby's Dad painstakingly showed him several times how to do it properly before letting him loose with the tape.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I find taping/straping/supports work quite well.
Certainly not a placebo effect, but also not a replacement. I find it helps a lot with stability.

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23306413/

conclusion: there may be some short term pain relief from the use of this type of tape, but there is no evidence that the final outcome is any different using it or not.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After various knee ops over the years, inc ACL, I've used anything from a full-on Donjoy brace to something like the image below.

Last year I bust my knee in Japan (didn't find out till three months later as it was the start of Covid when I went to see my knee surgeon back in the UK with the MRI I had done in France!) at the time I knew I had damaged it pretty bad, and after a couple of days rest I used the brace like the one above, that said we stopped skiing March 15th so I only ski toured about 5 or 6 times and looking at comments from my diary on one I said it was more comfortable going up than down Laughing

I'm not too sure strapping would have given enough support, and these braces retail at sub £20 so they're a good option, maybe better than tape?

I'm also fortunate in that over the years my quads are pretty strong so that helps support the knee as well.

After all it is free

I've got several of these braces of varying quality. The most supportive puts too much pressure on the contusion, and rubs up and down on it. It makes your knees sweat, and is very uncomfortable to use when running.

The least compressive of these options, a simple bit of elastic tubing, rolled over the knee can help with keeping the knee compressed and warm. The type of thing I am referring to is the cheap stuff used for arthritis. Very gentle compression.

The other braces and bandages do not stay on the knee when running, and tend to slip down. They become a nuisance. Taping stays on.

I do not need much support, as I can and have been running regularly without. I just thought I would try something and see what happened.

@Bigtipper, yes agree not the best things for running. I don't wear them on the up ski touring for those same reasons.

If I feck my knee then I resort to the bike and only start running when it feels better, and then I strain my calf muscle rolling eyes

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@Weathercam,

Strapping can allow you to focus directly on a problem area.
Support bracers can cover more area & offload the joint as the neoprene absorbs a lot of the motions that would go through the joint it’s self.

Sometimes I need to wear a brace, but I try not to, as I like to ‘feel’ how my knee is. I use a cheap neoprene patella strap as default, but sometimes I have to go for a full leg compression sleeve. My thigh muscle does not fire correctly, my knee has a permanent subluxation of the patella & the top of my tibia has a torsion twist.

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It is about 2 months now since I had the fall on my knee. I found the strapping initially comforting, but I think it contributed to some unusual muscle feelings after runs so I have not continued with this.

Today I am examining meniscus injuries, and dismissing this after doing some self tests. The swelling I have is at the top of the patella, not underneath the patella. This is where I hit my knee. It looks like it is probably some injury to the tendon attaching the top of the patella to the muscle above that.

I have decided to rest again, and use minimal intervention. I will use a tube bandage to add heat and compression to the knee and increase blood flow.

I will probably start running again in a week. Neither running nor walking are presenting any pain or problem. Kneeling is becoming less painful on the knee, but it still is difficult to fully bend it without feeling a little pain.

A gentle finger massage of the muscles surrounding the kneecap identified the particular tendon which is causing the pain. Pressing on this muscle, which attaches to the tendon and then to the patella, makes me feel the pain I usually feel when bending my knee too far.

This also seems to release some of the tension in the muscle and allows more freedom of movement before pain.

I suspect this will resolve itself with some rest over the next week.

You know it makes sense.

A search on anatomy of the knee suggests the quadriceps tendon is the damaged one with my knee. I think the damage to this tendon may have been done after the fall, when kneeling on the knee too far.

The pain did not exist until after that kneel which I remember as it was really painful.

I will stick with my current strategy regarding resting it for a week, and some gentle manipulation. I do not think it is serious, however it is interesting to see all the other possible injuries which may be much more serious.

It takes a long time to heal tendon injuries compared to muscle injuries. It seems this is because blood flow is poor in these areas. Also age is a factor. So I will add some heat and other methods to increase blood flow.

https://www.bostonsportsmedicine.com/pdf/protocols/Quadriceps%20and%20Patellar%20tendon%20repair%20rehabilitation.pdf

This link is a bit excessive for my injury, but the ideas are useful for improving healing of this type of injury.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@holidayloverxx, to tape up your knee after you fractured you tibial plateau would require an x-ray. While you could probably estimate that your mcl was damaged from where the pain was coming from, it might just be better to rest the leg and not go skiing on it as this is a bit like an alcoholic drinking some bicarbonate of soda in order to prevent stomach lining damage when drinking large amounts of alcohol. (in other words it is better not to drink alcohol)

I have fractured a toe before, and I can tell you I knew about it. It was only a hairline fracture. Shocked

A snowHead

@Bigtipper, er...the fracture was healed. The surgeon diagnosed the stretched MCL. I can ski just fine thanks

A snowHead

I often look here and elsewhere regarding injuries in premier league

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

What confuses me is that often there will be a comment like knee injury 75% chance of playing next week!

I fell over and banged my knee, more than 2 months later I still have an issue with tightness of muscle/tendon. Perhaps they are getting better treatment, are younger, or are playing on with minor damage and in danger of making it worse.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Bigtipper, I would hazard a guess they aren't trying to self diagnose and treat

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@holidayloverxx, if there is no pain and no significant impaired movement then you do not seek advise. This is self diagnosis and treatment.

I you are in pain, and movement is impaired, then you try to obtain a diagnosis. However, likelihood is that if you live in rural Scotland this will mean a 60 mile round trip a 4 hour wait, after you have been seen by a GP and referred as the GP cannot do anything if there might be a problem. Which probably means you would go straight to A&E (which is also a 60 mile round trip anyway)

Clearly, if you pursue activities which have a high incidence of knee injury, hoping that there will be timely diagnosis and assessment as well as treatment at a fair cost is sensible.

Understanding in advance that this hope is often misplaced, and often you will be looked at by amateur first aiders likely to do more harm than good, suggests it might be a good idea to prepare in advance with self knowledge.

Obviously if there is a medically qualified person with experience in knee injuries available at the time you require assessment and treatment, in the remote location where you need it, then that might be great. Most people will not be so lucky when it happens.

Footballers are assessed in order for clubs to protect their investment. This means they get assessed even when there is very little wrong, when most people would not bother getting an appointment with a GP. Often footballers will get scans done for a bruise.

However, if you look at some of the players out with genuine knee injuries (as opposed to phantom bruises), eg.

Apr 20: "Had a nasty knee injury last week and he's going to be out for a significant time now. He's had an operation that was successful." - no return date
Aug 27: "Keinan Davis is coming out of a brace tomorrow and he'll be three or four weeks away from training." - no return date
Aug 27: "Mads is unfortunately a longer-term injury, with his medial ligament that is damaged. I don't want to put weeks or months on his recovery." - no return date
Sept 18: "At the moment we think it would be two to three weeks minimum [for Richarlison, Pickford and Coleman] and after we will see." - 50% chance of return by 17/10/21
Sept 30: "Ayling has problem in his knee. Require simple surgical intervention [and] some time after [to recover]." - no return date
Sept 24: "He's been working so hard. He's given everything to get back. So maybe another 4-5 weeks, but he's doing very very well." - potential return 20/11/21
Sept 21: "With Jack, 10 to 12 weeks maybe. A long-term injury is always a blow to us. The tendon on the knee is disrupted, I don't know how long, but it will take time." - no return date
Sept 16: "Will is in the team session the whole week now, he looks good and is very happy that he's back on the training ground with the team." - no return date
Sept 29: "Jonny is doing very well rehabilitating from cruciate ligament surgery and is on course for an expected return in the new year." - no return date
Sept 29: "We are taking him stage by stage, and he is due a specialist review on progress in October. Until then, we do not want to put pressure on him by giving him a specific return date." - no return date

You will see that genuine knee damage will keep players out for long periods, and can be career ending.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Bigtipper, of course knee injuries can be career ending. You just seem obsessed with finding something wrong with yours and trying different treatments in case it's something else. If yours doesn't hurt or isn't impaired why not just leave it alone? If you think there is a problem then seek professional advice.

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@holidayloverxx, prevention of future injury out of ignorance! Also I may need to advise any junior doctor in A&E what might be the problem with my knee....

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@Bigtipper, i think if I was in A&E I would expect the doctor to advise me what the problem might be not the other way round. As a non expert I could only report the symptoms and how the injury occurred, probably the same for you.

After all it is free

@holidayloverxx, I guess you do not know many junior doctors who work in A&E?

@Bigtipper, true...but I sure as hell know that they know more than me

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@holidayloverxx, I suspect you know a lot more about your prior knee injuries than anyone else. You are too modest!

Help!!

Knee contusion strapping

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