 Poster: A snowHead
|
We’re a family of 4, children aged 11 and 12. This was our 9th family ski holiday. Wife injured her knee 3 years ago and hasn’t come back to skiing yet. Maybe next year.
The preamble: I wanted/planned to go to the Aosta valley as I’ve never skied that area but 2 months before travel, I saw Crystal offering the Wiesenthal apartments (discussed on here previously) in Selva for 1st week of Easter holidays for £1666 for 4! Didn’t think this was the holiday for us but it sure made me keep an eye on things on their website. A week later and I saw Crystal offering >£600pp off a 4* hotel B&B in St Anton and could not resist. Ran the numbers and decided we were saving money on any alternative if we kept 7 nights of dinner to around €1000 (excluding alcohol!) There were also substantial discounts on passes and ski hire/lessons for the children through Crystal that helped the budget eg Adult pass for 6d was €307 direct vs £255 with Crystal. So, it was a 2nd Crystal holiday for us.
Flight was MAN-INN. Despite a 2.30 pm flight and no excessive-seeming delays at check-in or security, we were somehow left with time for either food or duty free shopping, and having children, went for Wagamama’s instead of perusing the Single Malt/perfume selections.
Typically, my son’s choice came last and he decided it was too spicy so all he could have was the remnants of the Mrs’ food and it was all eaten with an ear out for the final call, quite stressful. I did notice the new T2 is more spacious than T3 but there are still lots of long corridors with travelators that may or may not be working. The signs giving you timings are accurate if you have a toddler, I guess, or maybe a very, very bad knee.
Ski bag was outside the terminal at INN before we got out with bags and finding the right coach was straightforward. Passes and vouchers for hire were distributed and were as requested. The route is dual carriageway all the way to the edge of the valley sprawl so it’s a good choice for the travel sick and somewhat less stressful than last year’s journey, which involved steep white roads, thick falling snow and putting on chains in the dark.
As the weather was 5C and light rain, and it was nearly 8pm, after a quick check-in at Hotel Banyan it was 2 doors down to dinner at Dolce Vita. Quite good to very good were the verdicts. Kids pizzas were correctly recommended by the waiter as they are only slightly smaller than adults but much cheaper. €110.
Day 1:
After yesterdays late arrival it was an early start and ghostly quiet downstairs in the breakfast room. There was a lady laying out and clearing away but she did her best to avoid eye contact and ran into the kitchen as soon as possible so I worked the coffee machine and raided the hot selection while the Mrs did the same to the Samovar and the cold buffet (both good).
Got to Sport Alber shortly after it opened and sorted boots, helmets and skis fairly quickly. Trying to sort ski depot was however inexplicably complicated, involving speaking to 3 different staff who all gave different, vague instructions before I finally went to back the ski tech with an English accent who had sorted out the kids bindings and he swapped my paper tokens for stickers and mission finally accomplished.
Lesson finding
Expecting ski school meeting to be between the 2 lifts and finding lots of folk in ski school garb there, I thought I had cracked it. Alas this section is adults, kids are the other side of Gampen involving a sweaty tramp through slush. Lessons had a big sign with 7-11 in 1 queue and 12+ directed in another direction but we stuck both of ours together in 12+ after explaining the ages to the yellow coated manager and their now designated instructor, Karin, who turned out to be Swedish. Mr Yellow coat then proceeded to continue pushing more and more youngsters at poor Karin, eventually evidently to her considerable consternation. But she was very enthusiastic with the children and pointed me at an office to pay for lunch for the kids. €19 a day each later and yet another bit of paper and they were off until 3pm.
Said my goodbyes and went up Galzigbahn which is a Funitel, half way between a gondola and a cable car, and straight onto a black run which started very easy and got better to the end. Lots of fresh snow so I looked for a close, red (rather than black) itinerary and saw Mattun. The first section was boot-deep barely tracked snow but lower the tracks got much closer and it was packed down by traffic.
I rather got powder fever at this point and skied multiple itineraries and to the sides of pistes, basically wherever fresh tracks could be made on the toughest routes possible, all around St Anton, Zurs and Lech, in the same day. I got back to St Anton just after 3pm, importantly just before the kids, completely exhausted, starving and slightly manic.
After a few calming beverages and snacks, first at Sport Hotel then via Spar on our balcony. It was a lovely spot catching the evening sun, always warm due to lots of shelter and overlooking the Hotel Schwarzer Adler car park. Spent an hour or so every evening here drinking €1.19 beers and €3.19 fizz. Not the finest view but quiet, we could hear goats and birdsong. Barely a murmur was audible from the revellers after midnight, even with the door ajar due to the traditionally overheated room. Room and bathroom were excellent and spa downstairs is pretty reasonable and was quiet for the first 5 nights, we generally only met 1 other family in there.
For dinner - we seemed to really luck out by walking into a very busy Bodega just as a table for 4 were about to leave. Excellent and €115 seemed a bargain. Great wine.
Day 2:
Son woke up with a sore foot/ankle/shin. At Alber he decided he couldn’t wear his boots so we walked 2 steps where they sorted a new pair for him. At lessons, the instructor advised daughter swap skis so the walk of doom had to be done x 3, frankly the last thing my legs wanted after the day before. I couldn’t face round 4 so got on Gampen, then went up Zammermoos, planning to head upwards. My head was turned by route 76, Arlbergfilmrinne, so I tried this. Not my finest decision TBH. Tracked out and crusty. Visibility rapidly became so bad I had to ski to a marker pole and peer anxiously into the murk to pick out the next. A long way down another couple caught me up and I waved frantically then shouted at them as they skied even further to the right, past a marker hidden in a gully, that I had spotted late. Eventually the nightmare ended and I got the chairlift up to run 100. Even this blue was tricky for me at this point and I binned my vague plan of skiing Langerzug and went up Albonabahn 2. This was much better, gentle side piste, a slow chairlift on repeat, no queues and most of all, sunshine!
After a few repeats, I repaired to the restaurant for a beer and a Germknodel in the sun and felt much better.
I also texted the Mrs, who told me the sun was shining in St Anton so I decided to ski back. Clouds rapidly gathered around me as I left and the ski back to Alp Rauz was back in the deep murk. I somehow found Schindlergratbahn on the way and struck up conversation with the couple sharing the gondola cabin. Turned out they were the ones I’d seen on route 76 that morning and we had a lovely chat!
Dinner at Skiing Buddha. Very good to excellent €120 and great entertainment from the climbers. Also distracted by the waitress, who looked like Thandie Newton’s more attractive daughter.
Day 3:
No dramas pre-ski school for a change but when I tried to ski the easy run to St Christoph, realised my legs were still gone. Went over to Rendl and found things a bit better. Even tried some untracked fresh snow between 14 and 11. Had a heavy fall, on the bridge over the road, while walking back.
Met the Mrs and went sightseeing up Vallugabahn together as there was no cloud, then had drinks and chips together at the top of Galzig. She thought she might try this skiing malarkey again as it was so nice and she was enjoying her Rosé.
Dinner at Maximilian’s, literally in front of the hotel. TBH a bit measly on the ribs, but busy, we booked the night before, €145, okay but no one’s favourite.
Day 4:
Kids only doing 3 days ski school this holiday so the 3 of us head off together. Thought I’d take it fairly gently so we went up Vallugabahn after Galzigbahn. After the first queue, they refused to go up the final leg as they really wanted to go skiing, despite the knowledge that the next lift would be a steep T-bar. We then thoroughly explored Zurs via Tritkopfbahn 2. Lunch at Seekopf, nice trio of Knodel. Great view from my seat and some interesting behaviour from the canoodling couple sharing our table. When we arrived, a Germknodel arrived for them which they shared, then a coffee, then a round of schnapps, then another coffee, then an Apple strudel as we were leaving. Daughter said she is not so good after lunch so we did the blue back to Zurs before taking Muggengrat to ski Trulli back towards St Anton. For some reason, this was far too steep and she had to side slip the top. Probably not helped by the arrival of cloud.
Son decided lolling around in the middle of the piste was in order while he waited for us to get down the steep section. Finished with what turned out to be the regular end, Funslope in St Anton on repeat, then 52 down to Zammermoosbahn, up the chair and a gentle blue across to download on Galzigbahn. Tried to persuade her the trouble with Trulli was all in her head. FATMAP, though, gives this run a max of 44 degrees, significantly steeper than eg Harakiri, Mt Gele and only less steep than the likes of Grand Couloir, Courchevel. Hmmm, but she feels vindicated.
After a knock back by Aquila, dinner was at Bobo’s. Massive tasty ribs. Son had the combo and will be talking about how he finished it until he leaves school, at least. One of his favourite meals ever. Great value, huge portions, great service and great Weisebier too, €115 again
Day 5:
More sun, and a trip to Warth with the kids. As we were off slightly earlier, it was pretty busy. At Trittkopf mid station we avoided the large queue for 2 and took 1 down to Zurs instead.
Still a big queue at Übungshangbahn but from there we could see slightly smaller queues on the other side of Zurs and at Madloch, there wasn’t any significant queue. Met the Mrs at Der Wolf, as recommended by the kids instructor.  Pedestrian access is via Petersboden lift from Oberlech and it worked out great. Busy and we had to wait for a table on the terrace but nice food with huge variety. We had Gulashsuppe, Taboulé, Ramen and Sausage. After yesterday, I stuck to blues in Warth until my son threw a massive strop so we skied a few blacks to calm him down. Nice on the North face of Salober, got slushy towards the bottom on the south facing so inevitably he fell just after I’d passed him to lead the way back to Auenfeldjet. Fortunately only a slight drama.
Mesmerising lift station at the Lech end, a Chondola and a speed test on the run just above, the kids loved it. They loved the run down to Lech somewhat less though, super slushy. Caught the 1608 bus back, €11.50 for the 3 of us, bus packed and drops you off at the train station, a fair walk in ski boots from Galzig base so very relieved to see Mrs there with walking boots for the children.
Dinner at Al Fuego, Short Beef Ribs pretty good €200. Same wine list as Bodega as part of the same hotel.
Day 6:
Much more cloud so I took the kids where I’d enjoyed myself the most in bad light, up Albonabahn. After some moans about a non-detachable 2-man lift, we all agreed it was lovely chilled skiing in the sun. Nice lunch of Alpenkrapfen (Cheese Ravioli), Germknodel and Sausage, nice runs on and off the piste.
Coming back, son persuaded us all to use the T-bar at Alp Rauz instead of taking our skis off to get to the Valfegehrbahn chairlift. Skied to the top of Galzig via 77 (which takes you to Schindler despite what the piste map says) then 86 instead of the pole over via 78, then yet more funslope and the final black, blue finish. Flat light seemed to slow me down much more than the kids.
Dinner at Aquila, pretty good. Daughter especially liked her Char risotto. €200 again, added to by me getting sent back to the hotel for something our daughter had forgotten, asking the Mrs for a pint for when I got back, and arriving to a bottle of 12% beer!
Day 7:
Very early start to get the coach back. Hotel opened breakfast 15 mins early to accommodate, except the coffee machine had just been started on its cleaning cycle! Coach visible down the road about the expected time. Got the cases and skis into the trailer. Coach went into the pedestrian area of the village to do another pick up but got entangled with a pole, necessitating a change of wheel on the trailer, with a fair crowd and a coach driver who looked like he was having a very bad day. 30 mins delay but got us to INN in reasonable time.
Other Costs
Package-Flights/transfers/hotel £3850
Ski carriage £50
Adult ski pass £255
2 x Children pass/hire/lessons £900
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
The short pitch at the top of Muggengrat / Täli is pretty steep, not helped by the fact that you stand on a flat section peering over the edge, the right hand side is slightly easier. Not convinced it is as steep as the other runs you mention (I would assume it is less steep than Langerzug). I can see why it might cause issues for someone especially in less than ideal light. The rest of the run is great with grand mountain scenery.
Pretty scary costs for a one week holiday for 4
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@munich_irish, this is how much a family holiday in school holiday time costs.
Booking this trip in the same week next year, is currently >£3000 more than the price above. I console myself that they won’t need lessons for much longer, so we can go to smaller resorts but then see them skiing and think we’ll be needing guides soon.
The basic initial cost (before hire, lessons etc) of our previous Crystal holiday was £3999, self-catering, in 2017!
Look on Inghams website and you won’t find much at <£1000pp headline, in any school holiday time.
DIY is hard to make cheaper. 1/2 term flight to GVA on EJ or Jet2, I’ll be lucky to get change from £1000 booking now. That leaves €2500-3000 ie €100pppn for accommodation. You can find a nice hotel for that but 4*+, spa/pool, easy access to lessons in English and lots of good skiing? Add on any transport to resort and 12 meals/day and your options are now very limited.
At least on this holiday, because we had a nice balcony, sunny weather and had to walk past the shop every day, about half the booze we drank all holiday was at Spar price rather than bar/restaurant price. Practically saving money with every slurp!
Summer holidays unfortunately aren’t any cheaper either. Flights and hotels are even more expensive. Apartments can be reasonable but the kids are now at an age where they like socialising too. Eurocamp type places are slightly cheaper than the numbers above but car hire is then essential and more expensive than in winter, roughly cancelling out the accommodation savings. And I’ll have to cook or drive to dinner.
If we DIY, we generally do 2 or 3 holidays in 1 which saves on flights eg the 3 days we spent in Venice in 2018 cost about the savings made by flying home on Tuesday instead of Saturday, including eating out x6!
I too am dubious that a red in Zurs is the steepest piste in Europe, but when you consult a website for facts and it fully vindicates the 12 year old, who can disagree? I can imagine her reaction to Ochsenboden would have been worse!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Zürsertali has become easier over the years. The start of the headwall piste has been progressively moved towards the skier’s right, which has served to decrease the length & pitch of the initial drop. It does not have the sustained steepness of Langerzug.
Great trip report, BTW. Looks the Arlberg delivered for you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@what...snow, Not having kids myself I am always quite shocked at the cost of holidays. A two week sojourn in a posh villa in Tuscany for the two of us is less than your one week "special offer" ski trip (though the Arlberg has got very expensive in recent years).
The first time I skied that red I was rather taken aback by that first pitch. Perhaps it is something about the location but it feels "steeper" than the various black runs around the Arlberg, though it usually has decent snow and few if any moguls. A fair way to side slip down the steep bit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@munich_irish, I actually find the bumps, further around to the right, to be easier than the piste. At the very least, you don’t have to contend with out of control skiers spearing off in random directions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@munich_irish, I bet you’re not going in any of the first three weeks in August though! Check the price then, but you will probably need a stiff drink afterwards. And bear in mind there are 4 of us so our 1 week away should cost twice as much. Discounts are minimal on adult sized children. They eat as much food and soft drinks cost the same as beer, although they go mad if they have >1 per meal.
@ulmerhutte, the off piste before you reach the piste was very nice on Sunday, still a fresh line when I got there. In retrospect it was probably a mistake to walk to Zurserseebahn afterwards rather than crossing the road and getting Ubungshangbahn but you live and learn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| Zürsertali has become easier over the years. The start of the headwall piste has been progressively moved towards the skier’s right, which has served to decrease the length & pitch of the initial drop. |
I have been coming to the Arlberg since 1993, last visit was this March
The start of the piste has always been were it is.
To include Langerzug on a ski trip coming from St.Anton needs good planning, and luck, because closure/opening very erratic, especially later in season
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 12-04-23 13:05; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@what...snow, you walked from the exit of Zürsertali, ie opposite the Tritt load to Zürserseebahn?!? Bloody hell, that is a decent walk, especially in ski boots! Still, you got to see Zürs from street level! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Langerzug, Rubbish.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| @Langerzug, Rubbish. |
No. I skied the ungroomed steep first slope already in 1993; and the groomed piste to the skiers right was also there, exactly were it was this March, and all the years in between.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
x.x.x.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 12-04-23 13:42; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Deleted
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 13-04-23 1:37; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| Langerzug wrote: |
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| @Langerzug, Rubbish. |
No. I skied the ungroomed steep first slope already in 1993; and the groomed piste to the skiers right was also there, exactly were it was this March, and all the years in between. |
Rubbish. That shows you have not done any serious skiing in the Arlberg. I am betting you did not get beyond poncing around the Oberlech terraces with your partner. |
Very stylish, substantial, content-related remarks.....Can you please explain the connection of all this dirt you're spreading to the first meters of Zürsertäli?
(should you be interested, I have pics showing the 1993 situation...)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Langerzug, nope, this is getting boring, and no doubt also boring for others. Best solution: put you on block, because you have nothing useful or original to say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@ulmerhutte, I'm wishing you a lovely winter down under. Sounds like you're a bit frustrated....Just a tiny bit
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@what...snow, We go first two weeks in August, helps not having to pay for flights, cost is for the hire of the villa (which is silly expensive) plus petrol, tolls etc.
@Langerzug, @ulmerhutte,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
ooooh this is much spicier than my TR from the same week
FWIW I can't say I noticed any particular steepness on red 44/Tali seemed like a pretty normal - if very pleasant - run though we did have good vis for it.
I think the steepest thing I skied on piste that week was one of the black in Warth maybe? Didn't make it over to Langerzug for the reasons that Langerzug (the user) mentions. It's a bit of a trek and would be a fair waste of time to find it shut or in crap condition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| what...snow wrote: |
| @munich_irish, I bet you’re not going in any of the first three weeks in August though! Check the price then, but you will probably need a stiff drink afterwards. And bear in mind there are 4 of us so our 1 week away should cost twice as much. Discounts are minimal on adult sized children. They eat as much food and soft drinks cost the same as beer, although they go mad if they have >1 per meal. |
Agreed. We're a family of 4. Ski lessons cost us around £400 for the week, and children's lift passes aren't much cheaper than adult ones. Essentially they are two freeloaders who more than double the cost of the holiday.
We did Les Arcs from the 1st to 8th April, self drive. All in it came to £3900. However, we know that £200 of that was spent on a couple of particular souvenirs, so that won't be a repeat purchase, and we made a mistake in not doing a shop prior to arriving, so shopped at the Sherpa in 1800. We'll be doing an Aldi or Lidl shop in Auxerre next time, and that'll save us around £200. So £3.5k all in for the 4 of us. Happy with that, our Austria trip cost us £5.5k (but £2.5k of that was lovely accommodation).
We go to Eurocamp in France in August. Usually around the last week of August so we can be there over my birthday, and it's slightly cheaper. We drive and have a 3 bed mobile home. Usually comes in around £2000 for the week. Which is still cheaper than a week at a British caravan park.
Great trip report. My children are similar ages, so very interesting to read. Was there a cost offset in only doing lessons for three days out of interest?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@munich_irish, flights are super silly expensive during summer holidays though. £1000 is a minimum and they can easily hit £2000 if you don’t get them very early. I think everyone still thinks other people are getting £40 flights to the Alps and Mediterranean but the reality is those fares now seem the rare exception not the rule. Last year I got cheap flights at Easter (still £550 for 4) and spent the money on an excellent hotel (with 25% discount) instead. This was not all good news as:
The bar was also lovely and reasonably priced, but all those €4 glasses of Prosecco/beer did add up over a week, and we managed quite a few €12 cocktails too! It didn’t seem worth driving to a supermarket for cheaper drinks though.
All accommodation will for evermore be rated against this hotel and will inevitably come up short. The whole new wing with our room and the new Spa with the walk in outdoor pool was exceptional. The Aufguss was great entertainment from the other side of the glass. The food was great, there was soup, bread and cakes at 3pm as well as a 4 course dinner. Wine was all >€30/bottle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@ulmerhutte, yes. A once only walk with a scramble at the end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Meltus, she did numerous blacks in Warth and St Anton no problem. It was only this run she freaked out on. Definitely more mental and to do with the topography. She doesn’t really like stopping before steeper sections.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@what...snow, are you talking about the long red 144 from the top of Muggengratbahn lift called the Zürser Täli back down to Zurs?
Not skied it for a few years! Last time we rounded the second corner to find a huge avi had literally just stopped after sliding across the piste!! If I hadn't stopped for a nature break we could have well been a bit too close for comfort!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@kitenski,  that’s the one. I’m still toddling around on your old skis BTW.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@what...snow, ha! which ones?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@Meltus, Conditions of Langerzug -when open- in general are excellent. It is completely north-facing.
Coming from St.Anton, best is to have lunch in Lech/Oberlech, check the status, and then head over to Rüfikopf, ski Langerzug and return to Rüfikopf via Schlosskopf and Oberlech, to head back to St.Anton
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@kitenski, the High Society Freerides. They worked well in the conditions last week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@what...snow, ah yes, nice skis!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
But I asked them and they decided they wanted more time with me 
which I definitely take as a positive. For another £100 you could stick them in 6 days and only see them over breakfast and dinner 
