 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, planning for next winter and thinking of flying into Geneva as there's a large choice of flights with decent prices.
But when I look at transfers, there seems to be fewer buses/shared transfers running than pre-Covid, and car hire is extortionate.
Looking for a resort that offers 100km+ of skiing that we can get to in an affordable way (and without having to use too many buses/trains to access the full area - some of the Swiss resort groups seem to require multipole connections between areas).
La Clusaz area would fit, but have already been several times so would prefer somewhere else. Would be grateful for any suggestions - no idea how to google this as the bus transfers seem to be hard to track down. Also we probably won't be travelling on a Saturday (cheaper flights) which seems to rule out some buses/shared transfer options.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Morzine
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Portes du Soleil is one of the best served big areas with short, so cheaper transfers from Geneva, with Les Gets and Morzine being the closest so cheapest.
That said transfers were a lot more expensive and harder to come by this year than in the past. Basically Brexit took away at least 50% of the normal drivers and most of the companies have found it hard to replace them.
The first couple of post Brexit seasons were OK, but only because they were also Covid seasons so demand was down. This year I couldn't get my usual shared minibus transfer for love nor money and ended up on a shared full sized coach. A shared full size coach with Portuguese plates and driver, which shows how far the transfer companies have had to go!
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Have a look at Villars/Les Diablerets. Easy to get to (train from Geneva Airport to Aigle then connecting bus up the mountain to the resort). Over 100km of skiing and very pretty.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Of the French options, the obvious choices are the Portes du Soleil, Grand Massif and St Gervais / Megeve. They're all accessible via public transport.
Some of the shared transfers are fairly reasonable but depends on your definition of affordable!
The Swiss options (e.g. 4 Valleys, Zermatt) are competitive getting there, but I would have thought that accommodation / lift passes / ski hire will largely cancel out any potential saving - unless you are going in French school holidays.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@lyzhnik, I’d think transfer companies not even thinking about next year.
Try Swisstours and Flixbus for french stations
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Use the train or blablabus and get to bourg st Maurice. They run every day and cost iirc about 40 euros each way.
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Why car hire is not an option? I looked at transfers from GVA recently when car hire prices were really high and it didn't make much sense using a transfer for 2ppl.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What is "affordable" exactly ???
Properly affordable would be Ben's Bus from Geneva into the 3Vs or bus transfers to the Grand Massif or PDS or around Megeve as said above
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@johnE, I thought Blablabus had become Ouibus had become Flixbus ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It was ouibus now its blablabus. I thought flixbus was a different company.
Thinking about it the cheapest transfer might be blablabus to Crolle then local bus up to les Sept laux.
Loyet is another bus company with routes from chambery to the tarentaise.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mr P got a bus transfer to Chamonix from GVA a few weeks ago and it was under €20 one way. Alpybus are doing GVA to St Martin de Belleville for under €60 one way, I guess it’s a bit more to head up the valley to Les Menuires or Val Thorens. They have a scheduled service Thursday to Monday inclusive.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 30-03-23 15:15; edited 1 time in total
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@johnE, ah, so it is.
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You know it makes sense.
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Direct and regular trains from GVA to Sion, which gives you an easy (and timetable coordinated) public bus connection up to Veysonnaz (where I had ski in/out for not very much, and lift passes on par with the 3Vs) in the 4Vs (Verbier, etc.). Trip report in sig.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As a reference, the current price of an adult Saver Day Pass from GVA for Switzerland is CHF 52 (£49). Buy this from 60 days in advance and it gives you travel across the Swiss public transport system any time the whole day specified, to 5am the next. GVA to Verbier (400Kms) would be about two and a half to three and a half hours, for example and involve one change of train and a change from train to gondola up to Verbier, the latter running till 11pm. 4 Vallées satellites like La Tzoumaz or Nendaz, add an hour and would involve train then PostBus. Lots of other Swiss smaller resorts are similarly accessible by public transport. See www.SBB.ch/en for integrated timetable.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 30-03-23 16:53; edited 2 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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As @Yellow Snow says, it would be helpful know what you think of as affordable.
For St Gervais you can get from Geneva airport for €16 taking the Flixbus (previously BlaBlaBus and OuiBus on this route, as @under a new name says) and changing to local bus services at Sallanches - but they don't have a lot of services. The train to Le Fayet costs around €20, runs hourly, and this year you could transfer up the hill for free on the ski navette during the day; they are building a gondola from the station carpark connecting to the current bottom lift station and presumably that will replace the navette at a fee. Neither of those are the quickest of transfers, but for €44.50 there is the AlpyBus shared transfer that takes around an hour dropping off at the lift station. Are any of those affordable? I do see that a private transfer (around €200 last time we ended up using one) wouldn't count as affordable.
Flixbus ultimately goes to Chamonix so that is a similar price, and that is a pretty competitive route if you look at different companies. The Flixbus connections from Sallanches would get you to Combloux, Megeve, Praz sur Arly or Les Contamines as alternatives (and you could also do those combining train and bus, with more timings). The same AlpyBus shared transfer goes to Combloux and Megeve.
If you are happy with the time taken, I think you can get to most of the obvious French resorts economically taking the train and changing at Cluses or Sallanches as necessary.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Flix bus to Aosta also an option from Geneva from €10
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The transfer cost tail is wagging the ski trip dog in this thread
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rungsp wrote: |
| The transfer cost tail is wagging the ski trip dog in this thread |
I don't know @lyzhnik's thinking, but a standard approach to skiing economically is to start by booking a flight when advance fares are cheap, and then looking at what options from that airport meet the budget.
Geneva is a good airport to start with, since it has multiple flights from UK airports including with the main budget operators. But as soon as you have an arrival day and time that can limit onward transfers, so you need to be aware of all the possibilities. It isn't easy though, a lot of the companies don't publish timetables very far in advance, though they may not change a lot year to year. And the minibus transfer companies usually decide on timings depending on bookings on the day, though it is interesting that as @Perty said AlpyBus are now posting indicative timetables so they may be realising there are people wanting to plan in advance. But shared minibus transfers have gone up in price considerably since before Covid/Brexit (I suspect both had an impact).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@lyzhnik, not travelling on Saturdays also rules out some accommodation, increasingly so, at least in Chamonix ...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The train from Geneva airport to Saint Gervais is 22 euros
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| j b wrote: |
| but a standard approach to skiing economically is to start by booking a flight when advance fares are cheap, and then looking at what options from that airport meet the budget. |
putting the flight horses before the transfer cart
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From what I can tell, Flixbus is absurdly cheap to Le Fayet/Chamonix etc -- 19 euros -- I'd make that option A.
That said...I wouldn't totally rule out car hire...prices seem to fluctuate pretty widely. Maybe leave it open? The point being that you will gain flexibility and time, especially if you aren't traveling Sat-Sat. And, if you have a party of four--let's just assume that Flixbus works for your schedule, so 8 x 19 == 200 euros. If you could find a car for even 300 euros that's big enough, plus let's say 50 euros in gas, you're at breakeven, because with a car you can do a big grocery shop at a hypermarche and probably save vs any market you can walk to in-station...just musing out loud. I've found that what might seem like a huge savings using public transit actually isn't.
If you have a car that also opens up certain stations that might not be easily accessible on bus/train routes, and maybe you have a bigger chance of saving on accommodations or lift passes. If you liked La Clusaz, maybe do Le Grand Bornand? It's significantly cheaper that most decent sized Haute Savoie stations.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pasigal, I think you forgot the cost of tolls, perhaps 60€ and parking in the resort, perhaps another 80€ and insurance for the hire car. Hiring the car will probably be closer to 500€ than 300
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| rungsp wrote: |
| The transfer cost tail is wagging the ski trip dog in this thread |
Or put differently, people are trying (in my view very reasonably) to ensure that the cost of transfers isn't a dealbreaker that makes a ski trip unaffordable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This and last season has seen a very clear switch away from flights and towards transfers as the cost/logistical problem.
This because car rental has rocketed in price, certainly during busier weeks, plus transfers seem to have reduced in terms of both destination and frequency. So when people book their cheap flights and/or resort accommodation, then leave it until nearer the time of travel, they find that car hire cost is a shock; bus transfers don’t work for their flight times or aren’t available; and there’s no easy public transport connection to their chosen resort.
Many more people now try and get all the components of their trip worked out in parallel before committing. And diversify their candidate resorts a bit so as to have at least one that can be accessed wholly by public transport. And if they’ve not got self-drive in the equation, have that as a costed option too. Once everything’s on the table, only then do they book their flight if that’s part of the optimal package.
Surveying all this season’s posts, there doesn’t seem to be a consistent and predictable pattern as to the best choice between self-drive, flying, car rental, bus transfer, public transport and destination. And that’s on top of the usual differences in personal preferences re type of travel, transfer, accommodation and resort. Car rental prices seem to vary wildly. I read a lot of mixed messaging about availability of bus transfers. Not everyone sees driving 12 hours from the UK in the winter as any sort of holiday, while others have had bad experiences with delayed/cancelled flight, and so on.
Standing back, I think that to get the best result, you have to do a bit more work on fully costing-out a range of alternatives first, before booking anything.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 31-03-23 10:47; edited 6 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| The train from Geneva airport to Saint Gervais is 22 euros |
It's a long, slow ride -- have you done it? We have taken it (just once!) from Cluses and the problem is that every train on the Léman Express route has to stop at Annemasse, then reverse (or is it a transfer at Annemasse? I forget) and head to Geneva. You then have to go through Cornavin and then out to the airport. I don't find it particularly convenient. On the SNCF Connect site the times range from 1h40 to 2h40 or so...
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@johnE, Most French resorts don't charge for parking, and tolls to somewhere like Le Grand Bornand will be closer to 5€.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| The train from Geneva airport to Saint Gervais is 22 euros |
It's a long, slow ride -- have you done it? We have taken it (just once!) from Cluses and the problem is that every train on the Léman Express route has to stop at Annemasse, then reverse (or is it a transfer at Annemasse? I forget) and head to Geneva. You then have to go through Cornavin and then out to the airport. I don't find it particularly convenient. On the SNCF Connect site the times range from 1h40 to 2h40 or so... |
we done it last week, took approx 2 hours, chat was good & as I am normally the driver I got to see more. TBH by time you do the car hire stuff, check the hire car over & then drive, i thought it was only about 30 mins extra.
it was an adventure, all to easy to just get a car or get driven.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Agreed, around 2 hours from catching a linking service from the airport to Geneva Cornavin (main station), changing there, then if necessary changing at Annemasse (about half the services are direct but reverse direction, others need a change but the timing is the same). So not fast, but it has the benefit of a timetabled hourly service, and an environment where you can comfortably read or enjoy the views.
And the fare is actually 22CHF outwards to Le Fayet, €20 when buying the return ticket in France.
As I said above, there is a payoff between low ("affordable") price and journey time/convenience.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| LaForet wrote: |
This and last season has seen a very clear switch away from flights and towards transfers as the cost/logistical problem.
This because car rental has rocketed in price, certainly during busier weeks, plus transfers seem to have reduced in terms of both destination and frequency. So when people book their cheap flights and/or resort accommodation, then leave it until nearer the time of travel, they find that car hire cost is a shock; bus transfers don’t work for their flight times or aren’t available; and there’s no easy public transport connection to their chosen resort.
Many more people now try and get all the components of their trip worked out in parallel before committing. And diversify their candidate resorts a bit so as to have at least one that can be accessed wholly by public transport. And if they’ve not got self-drive in the equation, have that as a costed option too. Once everything’s on the table, only then do they book their flight if that’s part of the optimal package.
Surveying all this season’s posts, there doesn’t seem to be a consistent and predictable pattern as to the best choice between self-drive, flying, car rental, bus transfer, public transport and destination. And that’s on top of the usual differences in personal preferences re type of travel, transfer, accommodation and resort. Car rental prices seem to vary wildly. I read a lot of mixed messaging about availability of bus transfers. Not everyone sees driving 12 hours from the UK in the winter as any sort of holiday, while others have had bad experiences with delayed/cancelled flight, and so on.
Standing back, I think that to get the best result, you have to do a bit more work on fully costing-out a range of alternatives first, before booking anything. |
This pretty much sums it up. Also not everyone can drive, and many people prefer not to. Certainly for me (usually travelling solo) I've been looking this year mostly at:
- Saturday to Saturday trips where there's a reliable direct transfer (Ben's Bus or similar; I'm doing one UCPA trip that includes a Ben's Bus transfer)
- midweek trips involving reliable and relatively short public transport (GVA to Flaine or Chamonix; ZRH to somewhere reachable by train)
- trips with organized shared transfers (e.g. SCGB trips)
Some of those things (particularly my reluctance to hire a car) might change if travelling with a bigger group, although even then I'd more likely be inclined to look at getting a cab or chartering a transfer.
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