 Poster: A snowHead
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Your probably wondering what a windfarm has to do with skiing, but AMEC were proposing a windfarm in the Clash forest that would probably have destroyed the UKs best (only?) organised, and regularly pisted cross country skiing trails that average over 40 skiable days a year. Last year there were 53 skiable days on the main trails of which 39 were good and 14 were marginal.
Members of the local nordic ski club have made representations to suggest changes so the windfarm wouldn't impact the skiing and Peter Thorn recently attended the public enquiry into the wind farn held locally. I've appended his report on the enquirey below. In the main it looks like AMEC have taken our objections onboard (with the possible exception of ice throw) and providing they do what they say the windfram shouldn't affect the skiing.
Pete's report:
"Just to update you on the situation regarding the proposed Clashindarroch
wind farm. I attended & gave evidence at the local public inquiry held in
Huntly over the last couple of weeks. AMEC have changed their plans from
building about 45 100m tall masts to now building 37 107m high masts. To
stop Moray Council objecting AMEC have removed the three turbines that were
to be built along the Haute Route. Thus the impact on the Ski Trails is now
reduced. The remaining issue concerning the skiing is the extent of the
clear fell for the remaining turbines. AMEC have agreed to leave about a
100m belt of trees along the Haute Route & not fell any trees in the
Timberline area. Thus the existing skiing not not be adversely affected by
the project other than seeing 37 107m tall poles with propellers on them in
the Clash forest. About 25-30% of the rest of the forest will be felled. No
access will cross the ski trails. The issue of ice throw was not
satisfactorily resolved other than AMEC saying it was not a problem with
modern turbines & they will put procedures in place - whatever that might
mean.
I emphasised to the inquiry recorder the uniqueness & national importance of
the trails. The barrister for AMEC twisted my words to say that I agreed
that the skiing didn't have priority over other interests. Actually what I
did say was it didn't have priority over traditional interests such as
forestry, the environment, wildlife etc but DID have priority over the
windfarm & that the windfarm had to be modified so not as to adversely
affect the skiing. I think I got my point across but he did have the last
word & it is all over now.
It will now take 6-12 months for the recorder the make her report & the
Scottish Ministers to make their decision but the future of the skiing looks
OK."
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What does the term ice throw mean apart from northern hard mens snow ball fight
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It means risking beeing hit on the head by pieces of ice thrown from the blades of the turbines. Although AMEC have agreed not to build the three turbines that would be nearest the Haute route and not to clear fell within 100m of any of the trails (so snow holding shouldn't be affected) there will still be turbines reasonably close to the trails (within a few hundred metres). The worry is that AMECs procedures might be to close access when there is a risk of ice throw. Guess when that is likely to be - when there is skiable snow 
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How much of a problem is ice throw? The turbines I have seen although big don’t move to fast so therefore momentum would not throw the ice too far?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nick_C, the rotational speed may not be great, but with the length of those blades, I bet the tips move at an awesome linear speed in a stiff breeze.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Russell, Cross country skiing with helmets and body armour, I wouldn't want to be too close when they have chunks of ice on them.
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So how many people use these trails?
I'm not sure that I agree that a windfarm needs to take into account such a minority interest.
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It may not be such a minority interest to those concerned. That is the theoretical point of public enquiries and public debate, to arrive at a balanced decision taking all factors into account. If a viable alternative is available, what's wrong with that?
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 11-06-06 7:13; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ah sorry, wrote the above before you toned it down somewhat 
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How does one 'tone it down' but show no edit details?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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boredsurfin, by editing seconds before I posted my reply!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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PG, Ah! Ha! Just wondered 
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Yeah sorry, I was a bit blunt with my original remark. Had a few beers watching the football. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Nick_C, the rotational speed may not be great, but with the length of those blades, I bet the tips move at an awesome linear speed in a stiff breeze. |
We've a big windfarm near us, it's quite a feeling to stand under one of the turbines. They have variable pitch blades to try to keep the rotational speed constant, but the scale will fool you until you get very close - they are massive. The tips of the blades are actually moving at a hell of a speed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Would I be right in assuming a serious build up of ice could only occur under unusual weather conditions and if the blades were stationery at the time? If so, ice would be shed as the rotor gently accelerates when restarted and normally well before maximum tip speed was reached. I'd not be willing to stand under one during icing conditions  but I'd be happy anywhere in front or behind the arc of the blades and at a reasonable distance if 'end-on' to the sweep.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| Would I be right in assuming a serious build up of ice could only occur under unusual weather conditions and if the blades were stationery at the time? |
I think not. Aircraft propellers, for example, require deicing arrangements if the aircraft is to fly in to known icing conditions. They're not stationary!
Indeed, this article says that ice build up is greater on moving turbines than stationary ones.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dave Horsley, ok point taken, you've convinced this sceptic at least. 
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Dave Horsley, I always wanted to give nordic ago but did not want to lose any alpine weeks.
It never occured to be that I could goto Scotland for nordic skiing.
Do you know if there is any where to hire the kit with instruction and guide for the weekend.
If there is I would be tempted to come up for a weekend next season and give it ago.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Nick_C wrote: |
Dave Horsley, I always wanted to give nordic ago but did not want to lose any alpine weeks.
It never occured to be that I could goto Scotland for nordic skiing.
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You can nordic ski in the Peak District and Wales. If you want prepared track just get a stronger skier to break trail.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Windfarms are currently destroying the landscape in Moray and Banffshire it is a crazy scheme where locals are fooled by central government by large cash pay outs ,some short term gain for no rewards in the future- these windfarms are ruining what tourists ,hillwalkers,X-country skiers.mountainbikers etc come to Scotland for .I agree with Dave the people who promte these pathetic schemes should maybe have them in back yard because we dont wont them here especialy in the Clash -can you imagine building a windfarm on the Epsom derby race course it would never ever happen so why should it happen at the Clash and the Carbrach ?
I see also Donald Crump is planning a new multi million pound golf course development near Aberdeen and a new windfarm is being proposed near the new golf complex ,Mr Crump says unless the windfarm is turned down he will not proceed with the new course hotels etc , as he says who the hell wants to travel acros the world to see some of the finest countryside in the world despoiled by masive wind turbines,i would think he will have rather more sucess than the Huntly ski club-money talks!
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Nick_C,
You can hire cross country kit or light mountain touring kit from Huntly Nordic Outdoor Centre in Huntly. They also hire all year round mountain bikes, roller blades for use on the track and Xc skis for use on the mat. They also hire rollerskis for the track, but you have to do a course or pay for a coach before you can use those. The Clash trails are really set up for track skis, but you can go mountain touring taking the clash as your start point. If your looking for something a bit harder than track skiing there is plenty of options for touring around all the ski resorts and further afield, mountain touring kit - either AT or telemark can be hired from Mountain Sports in Braemar and Aveimore and Mountain Spirit in Aviemore. Guides wise - i wouldn't bother for track skiing in the clash the trails are well marked with numbered posts at each junction each post with a map on it showing the location. If you want some coaching the ski centre runs courses over the winter and if there is no snow there is always the mats at the centre (usuable all year). For mountain touring if your winter navigation and skills are good I probably wouldn't bother, if it isn't somewhere like Glenmore lodge might be a place to start.
One problem with the Clash is that the snow can arrive quickly and disappear just as quickly - fine if you live locally and can check the conditions and just drive out - I had some great evening skis after work this winter, but not ideal if you want to plan a trip up from England well in advance. A trip up to do some mountain touring on for example the Cairngorm plateau, over the back from the ski centre is a better bet - from late February till easter you are almost gauranteed at least some snow for touring. But you can't gaurantee the weather - not so pleasant attempting to do a tour in 90mph + winds driving ice and no vis. or even just no vis cos the hill is sitting in cloud.
Don't let me put you off, I'm just telling it like it is so you won't be dissapointed. Some web resources:
HNOC http://www.huntly.net/hnoc/index.htm for kit hire, courses, rollerskiing etc.
HNSC http://www.huntly.net/nordicski/ the local nordic ski club
Mountain spirit www.mountainspirit.co.uk for gear hire.
Glenmore Lodge www.glenmorelodge.org.uk for courses, accomodation and they do food and a have a bar
Winterhighland http://www.winterhighland.com/general/ the website for scottish skiing - latest conditions etc. if check out the touring reports page that will give an idea of what some people got upto over the last season
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tomf,
Your putting words in my mouth. I have no objections to wind farms appropriately sited and developed. I personally have no problems with the Clash windfarm as long as our objections are taken on board and changes made so it doesn't impact the skiing. This AMEC seem to have done in the main, after some very strenuous representations from the skiclub. I can think of other possible objections to the site with respect to access along minor country roads (a single track A road) and possible damage to delicate peat moorland, but others were/are no doubt covering that. I quite like the ones sited at the Glens of Foundland for example and if they want to site a windfarm near my house (in my garden would be a bit close) but at the top of the ridge behind my house I'd have no objection in return for a small annual income (or free electricty)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dave Horsley, Thanks for the info, I will take it all on board.
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sorry Dave i didnt realise you thought it was acceptable to cover large amounts of Moray and Banffshire with wind turbines my point is wind turbines are not going to make a huge difference to global warming without a big change in our attitude to energy usasage and i belive untill energy comsumption is reduced it is too rash a decison to ruin the local envoironment and destroy our biggest assest in attracting visitors .perhaps the scottish executive could be more proactive in energy reduction as the sucess in banning smoking from pubs shows and wind farms wouldnt be such a bone of resentment to some of us
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's a bit ironic really. Have wind turbines and it ruins the skiing, but don't have wind turbines and global warming still ruins the skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
sorry Dave i didnt realise you thought it was acceptable to cover large amounts of Moray and Banffshire with wind turbines my point is wind turbines are not going to make a huge difference to global warming without a big change in our attitude to energy usasage and i belive untill energy comsumption is reduced it is too rash a decison to ruin the local envoironment and destroy our biggest assest in attracting visitors
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1) As I understand it the area covered by windfarms in the Highlands of Scotland will be small and the latest 10 year plan for the highlands has limited the areas to three sites deemed suitable for windfarms. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/4919766.stm
2)At the moment if I drive from Aberdeen to Cairngorm I pass one windfarm (at Glens of Foundland) and have a brief site of one in the distance looking off to the right from the A95 not exactly high percentage of land covered in windfarms
3)Surveys have not shown that windfarms put off tourists
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Do people really think the Glens of Foudland turbines have ruined the environment? Sorry but I really can't see an issue with these turbines, they are modern, sleek and look fairly spectacular on the rolling hill farms, if anything I would say they've actually added to not detracted from the Landscape. Yes there are locations which are wholly unsuitable for such development, but carefully sited and sensitively developed wind-farms certainly have a role to play in the energy mix.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Do people really think the Glens of Foudland turbines have ruined the environment?
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I don't know, but i like them  . And I wouldn't mind turbines on the ridge behind my house. Also as I drive between Oldmeldrum and the A96 there is a single turbine on the ridge to the right of the road, I wouldn't mind seeing turbines along there either. Access should be easy, as its close to a decent main road, its farmland not delicate upland moor and its not forested. I'm not particularly worried about turbines off the coast at Aberdeen either as long as they won't cause a major problem with seabirds and sailing interests are taken into account at the design and planning stage.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 16-06-06 8:20; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've got 3 windfarms nearby that I pass quite often on my travels with work, they really stand out against the absolute flatness of the fenland landscape. They've become as much a waypoint as church spires or the chimneys at the gas fired power stations but with a degree of animated elegance all of their own.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I get my electricity from the ones off the North Wales coast at Rhyl. Not entirely convinced they are the best overall solution, but I think they're part of it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hoppo, don't they just feed the grid? Can you really identify the source of your electricity?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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laundryman, they do - but I use the npower Green Juice scheme which claims to buy units equivalent to my usage from the site - which, aside from sticking the windmill on your own roof is the best you're going to manage in terms of identifying the source of your energy.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hoppo, ah, I see. I'd like a windmill, but I see David Cameron is getting some flak from his neighbours for despoiling the Edwardian neighbourhood. I live in an Edwardian-built conservation area, so I could see the same thing - and that's just from Mrs L.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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laundryman, I did wonder about solar panels - but my roof line runs North-South - so I think the sloped bits of the roof are facing the wrong direction. I should probably check out cavity wall insulation first.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hoppo, cavity wall insulation saved us an absolute fortune when we moved here 13 years ago. Turns out our house was one of the very first to be built with a cavity (or so I'm told).
Do you know whether it's possible with windmills (or other home generators) to sell electricity back to the grid? I honestly think that's the way to go. I'm sure the concept of giant power stations is just a hangover from the days when it made no sense to transport coal far away from the mines.
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laundryman, yes you can but the cost of the metering gear would probably make it uneconomical for domestic situations.
http://www.micropower.co.uk/ has some info.
There are also options like Stirling engines, hydro schemes, solar cells etc. For a committed 'greenie' investing in the technology for the long term and with a bit of space to do it all it looks surprisingly good.
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Don't know if this is of any interest to anyone, puts the other side of the arguement across.
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