 Poster: A snowHead
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Not the best Post but...
We have to mention not only the good ones but also tha bad ones
https://todaytimeslive.com/world/211139.html
The worst thing is that (according to the father and the lawyer) they are trying to bury the whole thing
“The current status of the investigation is dramatic because so far hardly anything has happened here,” the family’s lawyer
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's all very strange... Our 3-year-old daughter spent a week in Piou Piou this year, and that seemed like the last place for these things to happen, or at least conducive to this sort of stuff... but maybe it works differently in Austria...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Impossible to know anything. But I would have thought all ski schools are now obsessed (like the rest of the world) with "safeguarding". And that includes protecting adults against suspicion.
I act as chaperone for the kids in a local church choir - including my grand-daughter. I just sit there until the adults arrive for the second part of the choir practice and provide water and biscuits. The girls are there together - lovely kids, if very boisterous, and I can't imagine they would ever come up with any false accusations. But the choir master is happy to have me (and the other woman with whom I share the task) as witness.
I almost caused an incident once. Went up a chairlift with a lone French boy, about 8 years old. All the way up he was wriggling and clutched himself a few times and I thought (from my experience of 8 year old boys) that he needed to pee. There was a public loo at the top of that lift so in my unwisdom I asked him if he needed the toilet. "NO", he said decisively and skied off like a bat out of hell at the top.  The fact that I "talked funny" (as another French kid told me on a lift) can't have helped.
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well as a father i have to say that i would never want to work in a nursery school or something like this. OR also (although i have a snb instructor license) in a ski resort with small children.
I a kid come and said to his father "i wanted to pee, and the teacher / instructor helbed me with the clothes etc" immediately our mind goes somewhere else.
And yes as pam w said, i think that all schools now will try to do something against suspicion. ANd i hope so.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Reading a German report I'm not sure that it is actually a ski instructor; seems to be someone working in a ski-kindergarten. Don't get the impression from the other report that they are trying to bury it either - it only happened in mid January and the complaint reached the police at the start of this week so the investigation has only just started. The person involved has been suspended.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| turms2 wrote: |
... immediately our mind goes somewhere else.
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My mind(30 ish years in schools with children 3-11) doesn't!
Kid needs a pee? If the protocol that says, 'Ask if they need help/call for chaperone/help child/get on with the day' doesn't exist, of course that's a problem. But crappy admin does not = abuse. I will make the assumption that every one in early childcare has a DBS equivalent, in any first world country?
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| sukuinage wrote: |
| Reading a German report I'm not sure that it is actually a ski instructor; seems to be someone working in a ski-kindergarten. Don't get the impression from the other report that they are trying to bury it either - it only happened in mid January and the complaint reached the police at the start of this week so the investigation has only just started. The person involved has been suspended. |
nope...there was not an ski instructor. Something like animation or like this.
About the person i dont know.
"The employee suspected of the crime no longer works at the childcare center, the director emphasized in her statement. His employment had been limited until the end of January. On the one hand, this raises the question of whether the man is still in Vorarlberg at all and available for police questioning. According to information of the APA it concerns a young man with a domicile in the more distant foreign country. On the other hand, the Alliance for Child Protection Austria also contradicts the version of the institution on this point. Records show that employment of the employee was originally planned until April 15. In addition, there are photos according to which the man was still in the facility on February 1 - apparently at a crisis meeting after a police witness questioned the director. The fact that the suspect had not yet been confronted with the suspicion directed against him at this time by the Vorarlberg police, Nikolaus Rast, the lawyer of the father of the Viennese boy, had already sharply criticized on Friday. With it "the stupidest criminal of the world gets opportunity to destroy possible evidence", meant Rast.
The alliance child protection Austria fears, one wants to cover up in Lech in the middle of the winter high season an abuse case "with all means". Association chairman D'Atri demanded on Sunday the closure of the care facility as well as the resignation of the mayor of Lech Gerhard Lucian, who would have falsely claimed on Friday that the suspect had only been employed until the end of January and was no longer active in the facility.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)"
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The thing is every pervert has a clear DBS (or equivalent) until the first time they get caught committing an offence against a child. Some of them unfortunately will be young men or women who apply for jobs in ski schools or children’s nurseries etc so they can gain access them more easily. Or, they find another way to access victims like dating someone who has kids. Makes you shudder to think doesn’t it but that’s what they do.
The ‘dirty old men’ all over the world were young lads once and most likely had unhealthy ‘interests’ then too. I think I read just the other week actually that people with paraphilias generally develop them between 15 and 23 years old.
I’d like to think there aren’t many (perverts) at all working in ski resorts but unfortunately there will be some, same as in schools and nurseries here in the UK. Not many, but there will be some. You don’t know who they are until/if they get caught doing something that raises your suspicions or they commit an offence.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 8-02-23 17:02; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In the UK you need to be registered and licensed to train or be near kids. Football, Cricket, Rugby, etc.
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@Gored, you do, that’s right but you still pass if you’ve not been caught doing anything before that has been brought to the attention of the Police.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The behaviour of the child does seem strange from what has been said and it’s understandable that the behaviour would be concerning to his Dad.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gored wrote: |
| In the UK you need to be registered and licensed to train or be near kids. Football, Cricket, Rugby, etc. |
When I was doing SCGB repping they went through a phase where we had to complete an online training and submit a Criminal Record extract, but after a year or three the latter, at least, was dropped. Never sure why.
There's no requirement either within BASI or the Swiss ski schools where I've worked to have any specific training or certification to work with kids.
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| sukuinage wrote: |
| Reading a German report I'm not sure that it is actually a ski instructor; seems to be someone working in a ski-kindergarten. Don't get the impression from the other report that they are trying to bury it either - it only happened in mid January and the complaint reached the police at the start of this week so the investigation has only just started. The person involved has been suspended. |
The original English language report linked to, while clearly very poorly translated, specifically stated that he was a ski instructor and that he was still working with children. Pi55 poor reporting, at the very least.
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You know it makes sense.
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Speculating on this is pointless. We simply can't know.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Chaletbeauroc, when I did my BASI course we needed a CRB check.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Does this case mark the end of leaving your child with the ski school? I haven't ever been anywhere near a situation like this as I don't teach kids but I do know instructors who have been told by parents that they would need to 'help' their children at the toilet. Is it OK to expect a ski instructor whether male or female to do this? Maybe all ski instructors will refuse to get involved and call the parents or just let the kids pee themselves or worse. I'm sure the same problems apply in nurseries.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| gilo wrote: |
| @Chaletbeauroc, when I did my BASI course we needed a CRB check. |
It's possible that I did too, when starting out, but never been asked for a new one. I would have expected though that they'd need a new one every few years, which they certainly do not. Unless it's related to having a UK address, but certainly for SCGB it was easy enough to get a Swiss one which was perfectly acceptable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Someone may well have passed every check under the sun but has changed their name or gender, or both, making it more difficult to know their full history. Or just simply not been caught doing anything yet. I think most sexual offenders in prison are in there not for their first ever offence but for the first time they’ve been caught doing it (or been successfully prosecuted).
I think there’s usually a string of offences or undesirable behaviour before they actually get prosecuted for the behaviours.
These people all start somewhere.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| @Gored, you do, that’s right but you still pass if you’ve not been caught doing anything before that has been brought to the attention of the Police. |
I’ve been involved in kids rugby and football for 10 years now, and it is standard practice that no kid is ever left alone with one adult, and vice versa. There will (or at least should) always be 2 registered club officials in all situations. It protects the kids because if one of them is an undiscovered nonce, they won’t do anything because the other adult is present. It also protects the coach in case there are any malicious accusations as there will be witnesses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Timmycb5, that is exactly the way to do it as it protects both sides.
Imagine being accused of something when you’ve not done it. It would be terrible as there would be the ‘no smoke without fire’ comments etc
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| @Gored, you do, that’s right but you still pass if you’ve not been caught doing anything before that has been brought to the attention of the Police. |
I’ve been involved in kids rugby and football for 10 years now, and it is standard practice that no kid is ever left alone with one adult, and vice versa. There will (or at least should) always be 2 registered club officials in all situations. It protects the kids because if one of them is an undiscovered nonce, they won’t do anything because the other adult is present. It also protects the coach in case there are any malicious accusations as there will be witnesses. |
So you are going to have to pay for at least 4 instructors / helpers with each ski group or 2 for a private lesson?
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We have our cricket club child welfare officer who is explicitly not allowed (apparently) to give lifts to others’ children to and from matches (although other non-officio parents can). What an irony that the officiating bodies (or probably their insurer) do not trust the club’s appointed CWO with children.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 8-02-23 20:15; edited 1 time in total
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@Chris_n, I think of all the places a ski resort is probably the most likely place where there aren’t going to be safeguarding rules followed as per the rugby/football example because of what you alluded to.
Plus 3 year old kids don’t go to rugby/football as there is probably a minimum age, think it’s about 7?
You get a lot of people dropping off their kids/babies at ski kindergarten and ski school without giving it all too much thought because they are keen to go off and ski without the kids and trust that everything is in order. They possibly make assumptions that it’s like the UK with regards to the safeguarding at football etc but it might not be.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| @Gored, you do, that’s right but you still pass if you’ve not been caught doing anything before that has been brought to the attention of the Police. |
I’ve been involved in kids rugby and football for 10 years now, and it is standard practice that no kid is ever left alone with one adult, and vice versa. There will (or at least should) always be 2 registered club officials in all situations. It protects the kids because if one of them is an undiscovered nonce, they won’t do anything because the other adult is present. It also protects the coach in case there are any malicious accusations as there will be witnesses. |
So you are going to have to pay for at least 4 instructors / helpers with each ski group or 2 for a private lesson? |
Don’t know what the answer is. At footie and rugby we are all volunteers, so nobody has to get paid.
I like the way Esprit/SkiFamille do things. They just tack on one of their nannies with the lesson. They’re getting paid anyway, ans I’m sure they would jump at the chance to ski instead of staying in the crèche
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The problem as I see it in a ski school situation is, a ski school group for up to about 10 young children (4-6 years?) would normally have 1 instructor and one helper (getting offlofts etc) who may actually be shared between a few groups. When one child decides they need the toilet what happens?
Scenario 1, the helper helps the children on to the lift while the instructor helps them off then takes the child to the toilet and the group carries on skiing but then has to wait until the helper returns before they can go up the lift again, problem 2 adults potentially alone with children.
Scenario 2 everyone has to ski to the toilet and both adults have to go to the toilet leaving all of the other children unsupervised.
Sure I can come up with more Scenario's but they all involve 2 more adults being immediately available just to cater for children's toilet needs. I'm pretty sure our ski school could make something like that work at Christmas and half term but we wouldn't able to make it work in January and March where we may only have 3 or 4 kids groups on different parts of the mountain so what happens then? Maybe the simple answer is no children's ski school outside of major school holiday times.
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FAQ
