 Poster: A snowHead
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In the two weeks I have been on the slopes this year I have for various reasons skied a lot more slowly than I usually do.
In the first week I did group ski lessons and the instructor really kept us at a slow pace. In the second week I was skiing with my son that is a slowish blue run skier.
I found that going more slowly allowed me to focus on improving my technique especially around rotational and lateral separation in short turns.
It struck me that by previously spending most of my time carving at higher speeds (it is fun after all) I had got into a bit of a rut and stalled my progression in bumps and off piste technique (my weakest areas).
I was wondering if skiing more slowly is a broadly known aspect of progression that I have never properly appreciated?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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IMV. Skiing slowly/very slowly, is more difficult and less easy to hide mistakes (thus highlighting them)....so a very valuable learning tactic.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 21-02-23 10:57; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A bit like slow cooking makes the food tastier?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the ability to ski slowly, but still beautifully, is one of the things that separates instructors from the rest of us. Their demos have to be technically perfect, whilst skiing at a speed which allows observation and understanding by the clients. It’s definitely a skill.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@telford_mike, Sound like Ski Ballet - which should only permitted if you have a mullet, a onesie and no sense of irony.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Slow is pro. Speed hides all your errors. If everyone spent 30 mins a day doing drills and skiing slowly they would be much better for it, but i'd say that as an ex-instructor who skis really slowly haha
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Thanks all I agree (including about the slow cooker), although I'm not sure how you know about my mullet and onesie!
It seems clear to me now that no matter how much I practice carving I'm never going to get comfortable on big bumps or steep powder because I'm simply not developing the skills I need. Slower skiing might be a way for me to get off a plateau in my skiing and start enjoying a bit more of the mountain.
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@Henwc, …I did a few posts a while back on ‘the merits of slow skiing’. It happened to me when the Groms were very small - from age 3 to 8 - I just HAD to ski slowly. And it showed up all sorts of problems with my underlying technique. It is genuinely demanding to ski slowly, and well. Speed covers up a thousand defects in technique and prevents genuine improvement - of which the first key thing is: actually knowing that you have a problem. I see skiers of all ages skiing at a speed which is way above the technique which they are showing…and plateauing in skill as a result. This is just SO common.
I have been with so many people where they have expressed an interest in improvement, but then hammer off….
Slow down! Learn!
Personally I have huge fun doing really railed carving turns all over the mountain, at a low cruising speed. Lovely.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Very interesting reading, consider the men's World Champs slalom.
The first 8 -10 gates were so slick and steep the best in the world adjusted their speed to attempt to maintain a carve around the gates.
Naturally some achieved this better than others.
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| Henwc wrote: |
It seems clear to me now that no matter how much I practice carving I'm never going to get comfortable on big bumps or steep powder because I'm simply not developing the skills I need. Slower skiing might be a way for me to get off a plateau in my skiing and start enjoying a bit more of the mountain. |
Don't forget what (I'm sure) the instructor was getting you to do while skiing slowly though. Controlled round turns, continuing to rotate the skis through the turn in order to retain grip and overall control.
Once you've got it you can try varying the speed - it's not about going slowly per se, but low speeds enable to feel what's happening an develop the skills, which you can then apply when you're going fast as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Henwc wrote: |
Thanks all I agree (including about the slow cooker), although I'm not sure how you know about my mullet and onesie!
It seems clear to me now that no matter how much I practice carving I'm never going to get comfortable on big bumps or steep powder because I'm simply not developing the skills I need. Slower skiing might be a way for me to get off a plateau in my skiing and start enjoying a bit more of the mountain. |
Aren't bumps and powder best skied with a different set of sking skills than carving?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A great exercise is to use the bunny slopes - by this I meant the VERY gentle inclines served by moving carpets for absolute beginners. Skiing very slowly, lift the inside ski through the turn. Surprisingly difficult. Then lift it earlier and earlier in the turn, while keeping the very tip on the snow. Then try and clean carve your turn while lifting the inside ski. The lack of gravity and force from speed makes this a real test of balance, and helps you really feel how you should be balanced on the outside ski. The slow speed lets you concentrate on the sensations in your foot that equate to correct balance and fore-aft adjustments. The exercise itself I use a lot, even with advanced skiers I will start with a run of lifting the inside ski. But doing it on the bunny slope was new to me, and was a revelation. Thanks to Giles from Champoluc ski school for this!
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DB totally agree on the skill difference for bumps and powder, this isn't something that I had properly appreciated in the past. It also explains my tendency to crash in steeper powder because I engage too much edge on both skis which tends to throw me over and forward.
Zikomo, I'll try the bunny slope exercise, I have done the 1 ski drill on red runs but I haven't tried it on flat runs so it will be interesting to try. Probably a good one to really nail down the rotational separation from the hip (which seems a good skill to work on for bumps)
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You know it makes sense.
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@zikomo, …blimey if someone at your level of performance is getting something out of slow exercises, we should definitely all be doing them….
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes, the "inside ski lift" exercise (or the "ski all the way down on one ski" drill) is MUCH easier with a bit of speed. I never had a bike as a child and even now I struggle with balance at slow speeds. Same thing really - slow bike riding is a real skill. Skiing round with small kids is always a bit of a revelation - you soon realise how your elderly hips struggle with a snow plough!
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's always worth trying these exercises now and again. It all adds to the mix and experience 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@valais2, It was fun. And I definitely got something from it Bit strange to be in the beginner area learning rather than teaching though!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Leaving exercises out of it, but my skiing was really inproved in my first season (a long time ago), not just skiing all day 5-6 days a week - which is kind of obvious, but doing so mostly on blues and easy reds with clients much slower than me - locked in my own head thinking miostly about what I was doing on my skis (other than shepherding and route finding).
Bumps really only came together after a very insightful lesson, deconstructing what I was doing. And powder really only after a week's heli-skiing - as I hadn't spent much time in it until then. But those are different stories.
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I never met anyone who could ski/ ride who can't do it slowly.
| Quote: |
| Aren't bumps and powder best skied with a different set of sking skills than carving? |
It depends what you mean. I don't personally think so - one skill set does it all, but you have to be on it. Jennifer Heil looks like a mogul skier in heli powder, and she rides it with mogul skis. The powder may as well not be there.
If you're a sloppy piste skier you can be forward or back and the skis will hold you upright. In powder... it doesn't work like that, and the skier thinks they need a different technique. Or reverse camber, ha ha. Ditto those who stem their turns - which many skiers do. In powder that's not a good technique, but then it's not great on piste either.
When in these pages people say "I'm fast and can ride black runs", I always think that those are the worst
possible things they could do, and that they're doomed to never learning to ski/ ride, however long they try.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All of our new instructors benefit much more from doing slow drills on the beginner slopes during instructor training than they do from carving down empty red runs. Short swing turns in particular (unless they are from a racing background where these tend to be practiced regularly) become much better after a few weeks of slow training, their demo's improve a lot too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| orange wrote: |
| Slow is pro. Speed hides all your errors. If everyone spent 30 mins a day doing drills and skiing slowly they would be much better for it, but i'd say that as an ex-instructor who skis really slowly haha |
yup totally!
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I can say that my technique refreshes after a few days of slow skiing with kids in tow following my turns.
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Apart from any learning benefits from skiing slowly, it can often just be enjoyable and relaxing. After all, we don't walk everywhere at absolute top speed, do we? And going slower means improving your skiing time:lift time ratio.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Actually I do tend to walk very quickly, but I'll slow down if I'm with someone who obviously doesn't. My watch actually thinks I'm running to the pub, which I think just means they sell those to people who eat junk food.
The OP, and their instructor, are pointing out something important: sometimes you have to slow down to speed up. I had to do that with swimming. I could not progress beyond "expert beginner" level and I had to get slower to get quicker. I didn't need to do drills or be taught what to do; I could just feel the effects of what I was doing much better at slow speed.
I Plastic and snow domes are incredibly good for learning precisely because they're slow.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Apart from any learning benefits from skiing slowly, it can often just be enjoyable and relaxing. After all, we don't walk everywhere at absolute top speed, do we? And going slower means improving your skiing time:lift time ratio. |
I like that one - might use that... in fact I can imagine ill be using that one a LOT with people. Thanks
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Apart from any learning benefits from skiing slowly, it can often just be enjoyable and relaxing. After all, we don't walk everywhere at absolute top speed, do we? And going slower means improving your skiing time:lift time ratio. |
I like that one - might use that... in fact I can imagine ill be using that one a LOT with people. Thanks
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Steve Angus wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Slow is pro. Speed hides all your errors. If everyone spent 30 mins a day doing drills and skiing slowly they would be much better for it, but i'd say that as an ex-instructor who skis really slowly haha |
yup totally! |
surely there are challenges in skiing
a) the fast line slow
and
b) the slow line fast
Both test skills just in different ways.
I totally agree that, say, skiing the fall line in bumps as slow as you can is a great exercise.
But my last three lessons with three different instructors (admittedly all private lessons and spread over 20 years!) all involved the instructors encouraging me to ski FASTER over off piste and unpisted terrain - the point to make it more demanding to adjust to the changing terrain and regain a centred position.
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@jedster, I actually sort of disagree with you. The instructors may not have been encouraging you to ski off piste faster to challenge you more. They may well have been doing it to make it easier for you. Speed is definitely your friend in powder and lots of other conditions too.
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You know it makes sense.
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| jedster wrote: |
| Steve Angus wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Slow is pro. Speed hides all your errors. If everyone spent 30 mins a day doing drills and skiing slowly they would be much better for it, but i'd say that as an ex-instructor who skis really slowly haha |
yup totally! |
surely there are challenges in skiing
a) the fast line slow
and
b) the slow line fast
Both test skills just in different ways.
I totally agree that, say, skiing the fall line in bumps as slow as you can is a great exercise.
But my last three lessons with three different instructors (admittedly all private lessons and spread over 20 years!) all involved the instructors encouraging me to ski FASTER over off piste and unpisted terrain - the point to make it more demanding to adjust to the changing terrain and regain a centred position. |
Yea understand your point.... what I was trying to say is basically IF you can ski slow and precise that is skilful... however IF you can ONLY ski fast etc then that is often masking lack of abilities. The speed itself is immaterial its whether you can go slowly or not or faster and skilfully or not.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @jedster, I actually sort of disagree with you. The instructors may not have been encouraging you to ski off piste faster to challenge you more. They may well have been doing it to make it easier for you. Speed is definitely your friend in powder and lots of other conditions too. |
It wasn't powder, more chopped up stuff, uneven terrain, etc.
They were focusing on being more dynamically centred on the skis in difficult conditions. In part, I think, because I had a tendency to have my weight too far forward. If you do that a slow speed you can get away with absorbing the impacts. If you do that at high speed you go over the handlebars. So more speed requires you to move your CoM around more dynamically.
I'm just saying speed does not always make things easier.
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