 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anybody experienced problems with hire shops not having skis suitable for GripWalk soles?
Background to question. Friend has bought some GripWalk boots. Hire shop last week had suitable skis so no problem at all. I happen to have some sole conversion pads in my loft that would make his specific boots suitable for ISO5355 (Alpine) bindings. Am wondering if I should just give them to him, so he can put them in his bag for future trips. Friend likes the GripWalk soles on his boots, so don’t think he would want to swap them permanently to ISO5355.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 18-01-23 11:52; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Gripwalk is becoming almost the standard now. I would steer clear of any hire shop that did not have plenty of choice of skis with gripwalk compatible bindings, it can only be because they have not replaced stock.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
sole conversation pads
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sound like just the thing on chairlifts
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As Zikomo says, if you go to a shop and the bindings on their stock aren't GW compatible then they haven't replaced their stock in years and I would find another shop!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
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sole conversation pads
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sound like just the thing on chairlifts |
He he. Now edited.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Having not bought ski boots for years and having been out of circulation with Covid I'd not heard of "grip walk". They sound very good. I just found a pair of apparently brand new ski boots in my attic. They are Atomic Hawk 80 in size 295mm. Beginner boots, googling tells me. Been up there some years. I think they might have been bought for a teenage nephew, by his fond but ignorant mother - he'd grown out of them before his ski holiday. Definitely not grip walk!
I do have rubber grippy things for mine.
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I’m very glad I saw this thread, I have to say I missed the whole grip walk thing….
I just bought new boots before trip on Sunday, they have grip walk so now I don’t know if they are compatible with my current bindings. I didn’t need any excuse to buy new skis but also not sure I’ll have time given we fly in a few days!
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@PisteQueen, Gripwalk boots are not compatible with older bindings (unless you have some with the Gripwalk logo..)
Scroll down for a compatibility chart -- https://www.grip-walk.com/
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@albob thank you for the link! I think mine are not compatible (marker squire 11 from 2017), I don’t see any grip walk logo on them 
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@PisteQueen, That’s annoying in one way but great in another (new skis!). But whoever sold you the boots should at least have asked you the question. I recently got new boots for one of my sons and the bootfitter did ask if he had his own skis and what bindings were on them.
There are two potential solutions:
1. It is possible to get replacement alpine soles for some boots. Might be worth checking if you can get some for your new boots which would allow you to use your current skis.
2. Some bindings are available as either gripwalk or alpine, and you might find you can swap your bindings easily. I did this for my daughter slalom race skis with the new gripwalk bindings having exactly the same configuration so went in the same holes on the race plate. She likes using those skis on piste but did not want to have to take her race boots (alpine soles) on holiday.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Are old style boots compatible with new gripwalk bindings? I have my own skis but was contemplating hiring next trip. Presumably as loads of skiers have old boots, most hire shops (this will be in Italy) will have the necessary bindings?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w, gripwalk bindings are also compatible with alpine soles, so no problem there.
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@pam w, There are bindings that are compatible with both alpine and gripwalk soles, some will need adjusting for each boot type. Decent hire shops would choose those types of bindings. You should be fine.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The gripwalk compatibility issue is a ticking time bomb, 2 friends recently bought new gripwalk boots from Intersport and the assistant said no worries with your current bindings. I had to demonstrate the bone-breaking non-function to them before they conceded the assistant was blowing smoke out his backside! How many 1000's of people are out there skiing in blissful ignorance? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes it’s pretty scary, I only saw this be chance. My bad of course for just assuming the new boots would be ok.
I don’t actually know if I discussed with the boot fitter about my ski/binding set up. But of course he should have maybe asked about it.
Anyway now to just work out the best way to go - new bindings only, new ski/bindings or rent this time and work it out later!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Or just remove the GW and replace with flats.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There must be significant injuries caused when people in old-style boots slip on icy surfaces. It gives me the willies, whereas I'm not afraid of falling on piste. GW boots sound a good idea from that point of view. I'm confused. Is the issue that even when the bindings allow the boots to click in, and all seems well, they don't release reliably when required?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Agree, if you want a case-study in where GW is useful look at the new Pointe de la Masse lift station in Les Menuires. It has an escalator lift at the top, ski boots with no grips on the soles and moving metal steps aren't a great combo.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Had a chat with a local ski shop owner this week about the very issue. I bought new boots with GW Soles 2 years ago, and at the same time new skis which I had fitted with Salomon shift bindings, so that was all fine. I did buy some alpine soles for them, but didn’t think it wise to keep swapping them around. Mr P and I also have a range of older skis with Alpine bindings. This week I took the plunge and had new GW bindings fitted on my fat skis. Cost me €189 fitted. Jean (of Jean Sports here in St M) said it’s a real problem for the smaller ski shops as they don’t have the resources to replace their equipment to the extent he can, though I suppose for recreational skiers who have had their own boots for years, it’s not an issue if they rent older skis. I think many people are being caught out when they get new boots and may not be aware they won’t work with older alpine bindings.
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An overdue discussion, it seems. I haven't skied since before Covid but I do generally keep up with stuff on Snowheads, and this issue had passed me by. I'm still confused about binding compatibility. I'd still like to be sure that, with my old style boots, any bindings that the boots will "click into" will also release properly. I am a bit paranoid about twisting my knee (after a very bad twist in the Cairngorms donkeys years ago, from which my left knee never recovered) and ski non-aggressively, on DINS set a little lower than my stats would suggest. I really like to know my skis will come off when they should.
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@pam w, some things that might help you check. First the anti-friction device on the binding and the boot should line up properly when the boot is in the binding. You should be amble to place a piece of thick paper between them, and pull it out with some resistance. And put the boot in the binding then, whilst standing on the ski, kick the boot to the side and check it releases from the front binding reliably. It should actually be quite obvious if the binding is incompatible as the AFD’s will not line up properly and there will be gaps.
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And put the boot in the binding then, whilst standing on the ski, kick the boot to the side and check it releases from the front binding
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Might need to get my lodger (a skier) to help with that. The sort of manoevre which could have me flat on my back on the living room carpet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pretty much every boot other than race is now gripwalk as standard, its been out for about 8 years now and, again other than race, any binding produced in the last 4 years if not more is gripwalk compatible, in the past a lot of brands shipped an alpine sole in the box of any boot that had a gripwalk sole fitted, due to costs increasing this is pretty much stopped barring a few models
why was it done
1 gripwalk is easier to walk in (ish)
2 gripwalk is safer as the AFD point on the boot isn't constantly in the grit
3 gripwak means people have to replace older skis
right now most boots you can still get an ISO 5355 sole unit for, but this won't be for long, already 5355 soles are out of stock or on back order from most suppliers, so if you have boots and don't want to move to a gripwalk sole probably best to get a set of ISO 5355 soles sooner rather than later
oh and believe me it has been a pain the ass conversation to have with every boot sold over the past few years
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don’t really want to mess with the new boots/change soles etc. I’m happy they have the additional safety features. Just glad I saw this thread to even realise! Not sure it’s fair to say the boot fitter should have asked me given it’s not exactly a new technology!
I bought my bindings in early 2017, as far as I can tell (not an expert at all….clearly!!) they are not compatible as they are not the marker squire ID.
I’m happy to upgrade my skis, just wish I had known this a little sooner as it’s not going to be possible to get new ones sorted before flying out Sunday. Rentals it is for me I think! Just annoyed as I also finally bought myself a new roller ski bag
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@PisteQueen,
Might be a question for @CEM, or @SpyderJon, but you could try and find out if you can just get a new toepiece as I'm guessing the heels haven't changed, and the mounting holes may also still be the same (though I recall at some point they got wider?)
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@PisteQueen, you and me and a few others are coming very late to this conversation.... it's years since I've rented either skis or boots, or at any rate that's my excuse! It convinces me I should fly out with my own skis though.
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You know it makes sense.
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| stuarth wrote: |
@PisteQueen,
Might be a question for @CEM, or @SpyderJon, but you could try and find out if you can just get a new toepiece as I'm guessing the heels haven't changed, and the mounting holes may also still be the same (though I recall at some point they got wider?) |
bindings are definitely not high up on my up to date knowledge with compatibility etc., but there are some models you can get a new AFD plate which will make them compatible but definitely a @spyderjon qustion
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CEM wrote: |
right now most boots you can still get an ISO 5355 sole unit for, but this won't be for long, already 5355 soles are out of stock or on back order from most suppliers, so if you have boots and don't want to move to a gripwalk sole probably best to get a set of ISO 5355 soles sooner rather than later |
A fair bit of the shortage is down to a lot of snowsports equipment being manufactured in Ukraine in recent years. As you can imagine making snowsports equipment has not been a high priority in the last 12 months. Manufacturing has had to shift elsewhere with associated issues with supply. Spare soles of any description are likely low down on the list of things to supply and most people will be buying spare alpine soles to use new boots on old skis, not Gripwalk soles for what will likely be newish boots. Consequently, any preexisting stock is far more likely to have run out. Hopefully, the supply of spare soles of all types will improve over time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Had an interesting discussion with a fellow instructor today. He teaches "Kinderschule". I don't so hadn't thought of the implications of this.
With 'ickle kids you are constantly dealing with falls and skis coming off. He estimates that he now spends about 5 times as long helping each little one to clear snow out of their GW boots to re-engage with bindings when compared to old style alpine soles. Plus, due to the difficulty in doing it, he's walking back up the hill far more times than he used to. The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Like others this is the first time I have been made aware of this
Maybe I am being naive but would presume that a ski hire shop would only issue skis that are compatible with your boots irrespective of what type of sole they have. After all don't they have a responsibility and duty of care to ensure that their hire equipment is safe and fit for purpose?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| nahdendee wrote: |
Maybe I am being naive but would presume that a ski hire shop would only issue skis that are compatible with your boots irrespective of what type of sole they have. After all don't they have a responsibility and duty of care to ensure that their hire equipment is safe and fit for purpose? |
One would certainly hope so. I would have thought they would open themselves up to a law suit for negligence if they sent you out with the potential of serious injury. They would be expected to have the relevant expertise - in the same way as setting up the binding correctly based on your boot sole length and metrics.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
right now most boots you can still get an ISO 5355 sole unit for, but this won't be for long, already 5355 soles are out of stock or on back order from most suppliers, so if you have boots and don't want to move to a gripwalk sole probably best to get a set of ISO 5355 soles sooner rather than later |
A fair bit of the shortage is down to a lot of snowsports equipment being manufactured in Ukraine in recent years. As you can imagine making snowsports equipment has not been a high priority in the last 12 months. Manufacturing has had to shift elsewhere with associated issues with supply. Spare soles of any description are likely low down on the list of things to supply and most people will be buying spare alpine soles to use new boots on old skis, not Gripwalk soles for what will likely be newish boots. Consequently, any preexisting stock is far more likely to have run out. Hopefully, the supply of spare soles of all types will improve over time. |
can't think of a single boot company that injects sole units in Ukraine, the vast majority use the recycled plastic from off cuts in the main injection process to make parts like sole pads and zeppas, this is done on a horizontal press in the main production facilities, no point shipping scrap plastic across the continent to make a part that you can make where you have other parts being made had you said liners and ski cores then yes a lot of them have historically come out of Ukraine. the simple reason sole units aren't as available as they were is they are not the industry standard any more...Gripwalk is the standard so focus is on that not producing outdated parts (Afterall they want those will old bindings to replace them sooner rather than later)
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[quote="CEM"]
| jabuzzard wrote: |
can't think of a single boot company that injects sole units in Ukraine,
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Well at the moment none. In the past, we can start off with Fischer unless you are calling the helpful people at Anything Technical liars.
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the vast majority use the recycled plastic from off cuts in the main injection process to make parts like sole pads and zeppas, this is done on a horizontal press in the main production facilities, no point shipping scrap plastic across the continent to make a part that you can make where you have other parts being made had you said liners and ski cores then yes a lot of them have historically come out of Ukraine. |
The plastic or more accurately the rubber that the GripWalk soles are made from are completely different from the other plastics used in the boot. As such that simply does not pass the sniff test. I would note I was reading on the page for a Nordica boot where they boasted of using Michelin GripWalk soles.
https://www.nordica.com/uk-ireland/en/men/boots/medium-wide-102mm-2/hf/hf-110
Why you would not use a rubber specially formulated for walking soles which would be optimal for any other part of the boot would be utterly bonkers.
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The plastic or more accurately the rubber that the GripWalk soles are made from are completely different from the other plastics used in the boot. As such that simply does not pass the sniff test. I would note I was reading on the page for a Nordica boot where they boasted of using Michelin GripWalk soles.
https://www.nordica.com/uk-ireland/en/men/boots/medium-wide-102mm-2/hf/hf-110
Why you would not use a rubber specially formulated for walking soles which would be optimal for any other part of the boot would be utterly bonkers.
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It seems to me that the discussion was around the shortage of non-gripwalk sole units so why are you getting obsessed about the rubber used in gripwalk soles?
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[quote="jabuzzard"]
| CEM wrote: |
| jabuzzard wrote: |
can't think of a single boot company that injects sole units in Ukraine,
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Well at the moment none. In the past, we can start off with Fischer unless you are calling the helpful people at Anything Technical liars.
| Quote: |
the vast majority use the recycled plastic from off cuts in the main injection process to make parts like sole pads and zeppas, this is done on a horizontal press in the main production facilities, no point shipping scrap plastic across the continent to make a part that you can make where you have other parts being made had you said liners and ski cores then yes a lot of them have historically come out of Ukraine. |
The plastic or more accurately the rubber that the GripWalk soles are made from are completely different from the other plastics used in the boot. As such that simply does not pass the sniff test. I would note I was reading on the page for a Nordica boot where they boasted of using Michelin GripWalk soles.
https://www.nordica.com/uk-ireland/en/men/boots/medium-wide-102mm-2/hf/hf-110
Why you would not use a rubber specially formulated for walking soles which would be optimal for any other part of the boot would be utterly bonkers. |
Fischer's ski production is in Ukraine, boots are injected in Italy, liners from Ukraine and Romania i am well aware that the rubber used is different from the plastic in ski boot production
you obviously don't realize what i do for a job... so for the sake of argument lets not call them liars but they have just given you a line as an excuse
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A friend needs new ski boots but wants to keep her old skis.
Is it better to .....
a) buy some flat plates (which may take a long time to come and work out around €40)
b) put grip walk compatibe bindings on the skis (as long as the binding holes don't clash)
..... any other options?
Just thinking about my alpine boots, can gripwalk soles be bought for older ski boots? (Head Raptor RS 140, circa 2018 vintage)
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| DB wrote: |
A friend needs new ski boots but wants to keep her old skis.
Is it better to .....
a) buy some flat plates (which may take a long time to come and work out around €40)
b) put grip walk compatibe bindings on the skis (as long as the binding holes don't clash)
..... any other options?
Just thinking about my alpine boots, can gripwalk soles be bought for older ski boots? (Head Raptor RS 140, circa 2018 vintage) |
FWIW. If the new boots don't come with changeable sole plates, I personally would go with a change of bindings, provided the skis aren't that old and in decent condition.
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