 Poster: A snowHead
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I always hire boots as I never know what type to commit too. I was skiing before Christmas in Nordica Speedmachine 100's, on atomic S7s, , the were a perfect fit and all felt great. I'm now back in obergurgl this week, same boots but on Atomic S9s and I think I can feel the extra control as I am happy hitting 80+kph on piste where as last year 70ish was the limit. I'm loving big carving turns and short turns and powdery edges. I'm only 70kg but should I be asking to hire stiffer boots? Any advice welcome as thinking about buying when back in UK for next year. Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The stiffness of your boots depends on things like:
Your Weight
How good a skier you are
How aggressively you ski
How tall you are
It is a minefield, as there is no standard flex rating between different brands and even between different models of the same brand.
So, the best advice I can give, is to tell the forum roughly where you live and you will likely get a recommendation of somewhere with a good reputation like Solutions for Feet and Profeet. All you need to do is give honest and accurate answers to their questions and give feedback regarding the feel of the boots.....and they will guide you through the rest.
If you are an aggressive, reasonably advanced skier, a Flex of 100 is likely too soft.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Artengit, the Nordica's feel great - stick with them.
Don't get sucked into the treadmill of being persuaded into upgrading into ever-more technical 'expert' equipment.
I've been skiing for 35 years and my boots are 100 flex. I like a bit of give in the boot, helps with the feel of ankle flexion
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| red 27 wrote: |
@Artengit, the Nordica's feel great - stick with them.
Don't get sucked into the treadmill of being persuaded into upgrading into ever-more technical 'expert' equipment.
I've been skiing for 35 years and my boots are 100 flex. I like a bit of give in the boot, helps with the feel of ankle flexion |
The answer I gave was not trying to suck the OP into anything. My last pair of boots were over 20 years old when they fell apart (as I kept them too long).....so I was simply answering the question.
You have figured out what is right for you, your weight and the way you ski....and the OP needs to do the same. I am 64 kg, over 60, a half decent skier and like a 110 (as fitted by JoJo in Tignes). That is right for me. They do not have Gripwalk and I intend keeping them as long as I think they will be safe.
If the OP has only been in hired boots, then they have little idea what a custom fitted boot with a custom insole feels like. If they have not tried something stiffer than 100 flex boot, they have nothing to compare it to.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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1. Stop measuring your speed.
2. I doubt the 80kph
3. If you are advanced enough to ski at that pace you would not be asking the question
4. Spend the money on lessons rather than worrying about your kit
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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You're not hitting 80kph. If you are you or someone else would likely be dead. Don't aspire to speed aspire to control.
If you are outskiing your boots you'll be skilled enough to know.
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@zikomo, @Dave of the Marmottes, I too concur.....
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Yes, I thought that all that too. I hope the pistes he was hooning down were empty.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Gotta admit I'm with @Old Fartbag on this one. I would also think 100 flex is too soft for high speed carving (if, of course the OP is actually carving. Lots of people who think they are, aren't.)
But the factual answer to the OP is that the boot will just give way if you forward pressure it in conjunction with G force in a high speed turn, if the flex is too soft. If it's not collapsing, it is at least ok for its purpose, even if it's maybe not optimal. The temperature's also relevant. A 100 flex might not give way in January but it will in April.
The reality of hiring, though is that the shop may not have stiffer flexing boots because most advanced skiers requiring higher flex ratings will have bought their own - the rental shops' market is intermediates for which 100 flex is fine for the vast majority of customers.
So again as @Old Fartbag said, go and find a good bootfitter to discuss it with.
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| red 27 wrote: |
@Artengit, the Nordica's feel great - stick with them.
Don't get sucked into the treadmill of being persuaded into upgrading into ever-more technical 'expert' equipment.
I've been skiing for 35 years and my boots are 100 flex. I like a bit of give in the boot, helps with the feel of ankle flexion |
If you’ve been skiing 100 flex boots for 35 years how do you know whether 110 / 120 or even 130 flex boots wouldn’t suit you better?
I’ve got boots at several flex points and for carving at speed most definitely benefit from a stiffer boot that allows you to really drive the skis.
Here are the Speedmachine options - I’d guess the OP would benefit from the 120’s from the description of his skiing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks for all the suggestions.
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1. Stop measuring your speed.
2. I doubt the 80kph
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I have no idea if this is a real figure, just what Strava pumps out so sharing all possible info to help get a more informed response. It is not the speed that matters, its just that the S9 gave me that bit more confidence again in their stability. I do not do this speed all the time (or would want to, as I'm not as young as I once was,) and only on empty piste.
Thanks @Raceplate
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that the boot will just give way
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It feels like when I push harder, the boot it flexing forward, with quite a lot of movement, although hard to measure when skiing. I assume a stiffer boot has less movement and therefore a more precise feel in relation to the ski
I think it is definitely time to find a good boot fitter, I just want to avoid splashing out on shiny new stiffer boots and regretting it if they bite back!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
If you’ve been skiing 100 flex boots for 35 years how do you know whether 110 / 120 or even 130 flex boots wouldn’t suit you better?
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That was my concern having only ever had hire boots I have no comparisons unlike with skis. I don't ski enough to justify multiple pairs and as I am now 50 any boots will probably outlast me!
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I’d guess the OP would benefit from the 120’s from the description of his skiing
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That was what I was thinking, but my other worry is I get them too stiff and loose all feel. Your advice definitely makes me want to try a stiffer boot though.
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I have been skiing 30 years, 196cm tall, 100kgs, ski fairly aggressively, sometimes carving.
My boots are Atomic Hawx Prime 110S.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Artengit wrote: |
Thanks @Raceplate
It feels like when I push harder, the boot it flexing forward, with quite a lot of movement, although hard to measure when skiing. I assume a stiffer boot has less movement and therefore a more precise feel in relation to the ski
I think it is definitely time to find a good boot fitter, I just want to avoid splashing out on shiny new stiffer boots and regretting it if they bite back! |
Then the boots you've rented are most likely too big, too soft, or both.
A stiffer boot doesn't directly bite back but it does transmit your physical inputs to the skis more efficiently so if your inputs are sloppy or exaggerated, the skis reaction might bite you. You'll automatically adapt your inputs pretty quickly to compensate though if you're a competent skier and I wouldn't worry about it. it's part of the learning curve and you're going to have to do it at some point if you want to progress. For piste skiing, it's less of an issue anyway; a too stiff boot is more likely to bite you off piste where a degree of "suspension" flex can prevent you from accidently forward pressuring the tip of the ski and making it nosedive.
The other reassurance for buying a stiffer boot would be that in general, it is much easier to soften the flex of a boot than it is to make it stiffer and the vast majority of boots have some kind of flex adjustment on them anyway that is worth an extra 5-10 flex points. For some boots, the flex adjuster makes them stiffer, and others softer. So you could, for example, buy a 120 boot knowing that the "soft" setting is nearer to 110 flex or a 110 boot knowing that the "stiff" setting is nearer to 120 flex to address your concerns about biting back. A good bootfitter will know which way the flex adjuster affects the boot's stiffness and can recommend the right starting flex for you in any particular product.
We debate a lot of things on this forum but if there's one thing that pretty much no-one will argue with, it's that a well fitted appropriate pair of boots will make more difference to your skiing than anything else. Time to get the wallet out! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dave of the Marmottes, 50 mph, not that incredible, especially on a schuss before a flat or uphill section I bet that there are many people doing those kinds of speeds
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Poster: A snowHead
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@rambotion, I ski very hard and aggressively and only occasionally notch up 80km, but then I do like carving and being in some form of control 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| @rambotion, I ski very hard and aggressively for a 75yo and only occasionally notch up 80km, but then I do like carving and being in some form of control |
FIFY
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Then the boots you've rented are most likely too big, too soft, or both.
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Definitely not too big, not a crushing race fit as feet need to happy all day but they are snug all round, any tighter would impact circulation.
Thanks, it's good to know the option for adjusting boot flex is that bigger range. I am beginning to feel like I can have a half informed discussion with a boot fitter.
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@Artengit,
how much skiing you done in your life time? how many days a season do you spend on skis?
how fit are you?
how much coaching quality you had?
All the above will decide how stiff and direct your boots need to be, then there's the comfort/performance ratio
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| All you need to do is give honest and accurate answers to their questions and give feedback regarding the feel of the boots.....and they will guide you through the rest. |
This is the key issue here. People do give what they believe to be honest feeback on their skiing, however they just have no idea what actually is good skiing.
I taught someone a few weeks back who described themselves at "intermediate to advanced" because "I can get down black runs". The reality was, at best they're pushing a lower intermediate, but they genuinely had no idea that's what there level actually was.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Artengit wrote: |
| Quote: |
Then the boots you've rented are most likely too big, too soft, or both.
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Definitely not too big, not a crushing race fit as feet need to happy all day but they are snug all round, any tighter would impact circulation. |
I'd put £10 on the line that if you went to solutions4feet and told them the boot and size you have hired, they put you in a size smaller.
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| swskier wrote: |
| Artengit wrote: |
| Quote: |
Then the boots you've rented are most likely too big, too soft, or both.
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Definitely not too big, not a crushing race fit as feet need to happy all day but they are snug all round, any tighter would impact circulation. |
I'd put £10 on the line that if you went to solutions4feet and told them the boot and size you have hired, they put you in a size smaller. |
I normally accept a firm but comfortable fit when I hire, Then I can ease in on day 1. I sometimes add a supergreen insole to support my arches so very snug. Very much does depend on which boots I get though and how they settle in ( or how my feet settle in)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@swskier, Very common! Lots of people stop having any sort of instruction at quite a low level, generally the "can get down a black run" stage. Which is fine as that is a level that will allow you to enjoy intermediate piste skiing. The only problem is when it leads to over-estimation of ability, including skiing at inappropriate speeds especially on steeper terrain/more challenging conditions. It s fun, however, to introduce new levels of performance and the new sensations that come with that! My favourite are skiers who class themselves as lower level intermediate as they say they struggle on ice and steeper slopes. But are actually very good skiers, very trusting students who will actually try hard to do what you are asking them to do, and make huge improvements as confidence improves. I find it is much more common to find women like that than men. Interestingly because often they have been encouraged by their partner to take some instruction as there is a perceived difference in ability. But when you see both of them skiing, you realise it is the man who is at a lower level but just willing to ski faster! Worst is when you get a couples lesson and are told by the man that his partner needs/wants help with speed/ice/steeper terrain, but it becomes clear that he is actually the worse skier.
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| swskier wrote: |
This is the key issue here. People do give what they believe to be honest feeback on their skiing, however they just have no idea what actually is good skiing.
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This is a very valid point.
I would say a canny Bootfitter with some clever questions, could tease out the actual standard. Number of weeks skiing; number of Class lessons at what level; how many Private lessons (and what was worked on) and have they had Boots fitted before (and where).....would be a good start. I would say Colin is experienced at this.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Artengit, I'd also suggest that to my mind, and it's been said here many times before, if you are buying your own boots I'd be surprised if you walked out with anything badged less than 110 ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Artengit, When I read your first post, the highlighting/emphasising of your speed got my antenna twitching.
Too many of the most dangerous skiers I have skied with (met in resort) have been fixated with speed and breaking their previous records. Many of the members on here have been skied into by out of control skiers, going faster than their ability allows, which has resulted in injury.
This year, the higher resorts like Tignes/VDI and Paradiski, have had larger numbers of dangerously fast skiers than usual (due to poorer snow in lower resorts) - resulting in a higher number of accidents than usual.
I witnessed this myself last week, where my Daughter was nearly taken out by some bloke who was so close that her Ski Pole was nearly ripped out of her hand. At the bottom of the lifts, there were also groups of Students, with their phones out, comparing speeds for their last run. It was a testosterone fuelled dangerous game to them.
So, given that and the number of Instructors who post on here, you can understand why this is a rather a sensitive issue, which triggered the response above. As you were a new Member, I let it go.
Snowheads is a brilliant resource, with a huge well of knowledge - but you will not be flattered and you can get a robust response...and what I can say, is by in large, the advice is well meaning and based on years of experience (even if conflicting at times).
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 1-02-23 13:54; edited 3 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| swskier wrote: |
| Artengit wrote: |
| Quote: |
Then the boots you've rented are most likely too big, too soft, or both.
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Definitely not too big, not a crushing race fit as feet need to happy all day but they are snug all round, any tighter would impact circulation. |
I'd put £10 on the line that if you went to solutions4feet and told them the boot and size you have hired, they put you in a size smaller. |
I'd put a tenner on too.
If you've never had a properly fitted pair of boots, you have no reference point for just how tight they should actually be so it's a difficult "you don't know what you don't know" situation.
IME, a good rule of thumb is to monitor what clip you're using when doing up the buckles on your boots. If you're using the first and second clips, particularly over the forefoot and instep, they're probably a good fit. If you can undo those buckles completely and it makes no difference at all to how you ski, they're probably a good fit.
If you're using the 4/5/6th clips anywhere, but especially around the ankle to prevent heel lift, they're almost certainly too big.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| It's actually a shame more SH's don't use Carv as then we'd know those who can ski and those that say that can but actually are way off the mark..... |
I don't need Carv to rub it in when I'm skiing with a hangover! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Weathercam, are we classing 145 as someone that can or can't ski?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
It's actually a shame more SH's don't use Carv as then we'd know those who can ski and those that say that can but actually are way off the mark.
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Why do "we" need to know that?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| It's actually a shame more SH's don't use Carv as then we'd know those who can ski and those that say that can but actually are way off the mark..... |
I know you're taking the wee wee but actually everyone can ski just at different levels and it doesn't really matter if they are safe and enjoying themselves. I'd actually be resistant to the Stravafication of skiing more generally by Carv as I can only imagine the hazards presented by muppets who by definition will be on piste trying to score a new PB at teh expense of dilligence to surrounding skiers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
It's actually a shame more SH's don't use Carv as then we'd know those who can ski and those that say that can but actually are way off the mark.
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Why do "we" need to know that? |
Well, I'm a very centred, balanced, reactive skier with ability to take the best from any ski and conditions. Gently coercing the ski into doing anything I wish and far above their designed ability  I wish so why would I want a Carve report to dispense with that outlook.
Other than joking, I do think it added value to the report, especially in short time frame you had to evaluate weathercam, and offers quite interesting insight to those different ski.
Leisure use for me though, is definitely no as I try to keep anything like this out of my sphere of participation for relaxation sports as I see them. I really don't wish to evaluate, purchase, recharge, download anything of this type to get stats.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, hmmm, I thinnk that Carv use "gameification" in their marketing puff 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
Why do "we" need to know that? |
Because sometimes there's an inordinate amount of BS on here about people's ability, as has been touched on in this very thread.
@Dave of the Marmottes, Carv has nothing to do with speed, though speed can be your friend in the turns, but the focus is on carving and if more people know how to do that as opposed to sliding out of control at speed there might be fewer collisions?
I actually had to search out what my max speed was on my best segment today and it was a paltry 36kph
@ski3, and in my case it has constructively helped me ski far better on the piste than I was ever doing before.
Once I start plateauing then I'll probably leave then in the apartment. But at my age it's still good to feel that you're progressing rather than just being satisfied with your lot.
Top instructors are in the 155+ bracket FWIW
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@ski3, @Weathercam, If I was able to ski multiple weeks per year and could take lots of time on my own to work on improving my stats, it is exactly the sort of analytical tool I would love.
As it is, I get 6 days per year, usually spent with my Daughter and/or a group I might meet in resort.....so cossetting myself in a "Carv Bubble", instead of enjoying the company I'm skiing with, is not something that appeals.
I was lucky to have had lessons from Aaron Cassells (ex Racer from NI and Instructor in VDI) - who hammered home the message that in skiing, the 3 most important factors were Control, Control and Control. His advice was to start off skiing every steepish slope as if it was steeper than it looked.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Old Fartbag, it doesn't have to eat in to your holiday time.
I've only used mine a small amount, but used it on our holiday in Jan 22. I wasn't working on any specific drills, just had it on the freeskiing mode and it gave me a score update for the run plus a tip to think about next run.
As it happens, I bought mine based on the size of boots I was in (sold to me by Snow and Rock) which turned out to be 1 size too big. I now have carv inserts that won't fit in my new size boot, so i'll likely sell mine, and I don't know that i'll bother replacing them.
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@zikomo, @Dave of the Marmottes, Honestly, I see no reason to doubt the 80kph. It's really not that fast. Not something I measure frequently, but I recall some years ago doing just that and that sort of speed was not unusual, not even confined to a schuss.
As for the boots, well the key to whether you need stiffer boots is not solely down to speed, but the faster and more aggressively you ski will obviously be a factor. It's really a question of control - if you're very technical, as well as fast, then you need the boot to transmit your inputs more directly to the ski, obviously, and stiffness plays a key part in this, but whether an individual is over-flexing the boot, i.e. occasionally getting their weight too far forward, is something that can only be judged by seeing them ski.
Feeling the boots flex is a good thing, as it implies a good shin position, but is it consistent or just when you're getting thrown forward by a bump? If they're always flexing then perhaps a stiffer boot would be better, if it's only when something pushes you forward and they return to a more neutral position, then perhaps not.
As ever, it's about finding if there's a problem before trying to fix it. Best advice - go out with an instructor, do the sort of skiing that's pushing your envelope and ask them specifically to look out for any issues that may be boot related.
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
I was lucky to have had lessons from Aaron Cassells (ex Racer from NI and Instructor in VDI) - who hammered home the message that in skiing, the 3 most important factors were Control, Control and Control. His advice was to start off skiing every steepish slope as if it was steeper than it looked. |
Yupp, I'll second that. And skiing more slowly in perfect control is much more difficult than going fast. Go for precise round turns, vary them, speed up, slow down, try to feel that you're always able to control the ski and not the other way around.
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FAQ
