 Poster: A snowHead
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After the demise of my old lined ski jacket, I have just ordered a top end shell jacket, with the intention of wearing/carrying mid layers in a back pack. Do any snowheads have a view on a go to combo of up to two mid layers, maybe a fleece and a down jacket that cover the wide range of conditions that might be encountered? I ski 90:10 on piste/off piste in Europe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would go Fleece and Primaloft…though Down is still a good choice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cheers, I was thinking of Down more as a generic term for puffa style jackets … I was thinking more about if you could buy two mid layers to go under a shell jacket to cover all bases what would they be?
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Each to their own. I use fleece as my primary mid-layer because it's easy to wash. If it's minus 40, I have a thin down layer I can put over the top, the same layer I take for sitting around eating lunch in cold temps. So I find a mix of both gives me maximum flexibility.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A tech t-shirt, long or short-sleeve, a fleece-type top next, and then a puffer. Add or subtract layers to account to personal preferences and weather conditions.
At -14C, like we have had for the last 2 days on the Galzig, I needed a thermal (Patagonia) zip-neck on top of the tech t-shirt. On warmer spring days, I might revert to a sleeve-less puffer, or even ditch that layer completely. Again, it all depends on how your body reacts to outside temps.
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Down doesn’t breathe or transport moisture very well so I definitely wouldn’t get it as your primary mid layer unless you run very cold
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Personally, most of the time, I use a non-thermal wicking layer then a thin thermal both from Decathlon, with usually an Arcteryx Atom mid layer under my shell. This copes with most winter downhill conditions.
If really cold (e.g. right now at -20 on the hill) either a high loft fleece or add a down/synth down gilet.
The Atom handles a wider range of temps more comfortably than my old 200 weight Patagonias (R2s) - albeit a tad less breathable. There are many versions of this sort of thing.
I tend to have a pack on which also helps with keeping warm air in the right places.
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Merino base + thin fleece + something like an arcteryx atom or proton jacket.
The arcteryx packs down small in a backpack if it gets too warm.
I found down doesn’t breathe well at all so can get cold and clammy after exertion.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I use a fleece 3/4 Gill overall underlayer (normally used with drysuit for sailing) underneath my shell salopettes and jacket plus layers as required. When really cold add my mountain equipment primaloft belay puffer over the top of everything as easy to add/remove as required. Advantage of primaloft is it can be easily washed.
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Yes I was thinking about using the Gill top from my sailing bag as the “fleece” and find a complimentary puffer
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I like a fleece base layer and a down sweater (lighter & thinner than a jacket) under a shell.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Arno wrote: |
| Down doesn’t breathe or transport moisture very well so I definitely wouldn’t get it as your primary mid layer unless you run very cold |
Agree with this - having spent a lot of time in Norway skiing in very cold conditions (-20 to -30C) I always went with a shell and multiple natural layers, but never thick down. Multiple thin layers are much more flexible to adapting to variations in temperature and will keep you warmer than a single thicker layer. Natural fibres like merino are also great at retaining their insulating properties when wet, e.g. if they get saturated with perspiration.
That is not to say down doesn't have it's uses. In the back country I carry a down jacket in my pack and it comes out during stops or while having lunch - but it is less useful during activity.
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Have had the Proton LT hoody for about five years and while it is pricey, it's brilliant under a shell. I like running vest (wicks brilliantly), merino layer (by HH) then Proton LT, then gore-tex 3L shell. Keep the down (vest is best) in your backpack if you get chilly.
| sheffskibod wrote: |
Merino base + thin fleece + something like an arcteryx atom or proton jacket.
The arcteryx packs down small in a backpack if it gets too warm.
I found down doesn’t breathe well at all so can get cold and clammy after exertion. |
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You know it makes sense.
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A standard synthetic or merino base, a tech t-shirt and two thin (and inexpensive) zipped fleeces under my shell normally see me right down to -20C or so, and retain enough warmth for the lift rides - with various levels of zippage providing fine adjustment. Below those temps, I’m more affected by the cold on my fingers, toes, and and any exposed parts of my head. As temps warm up, the layers reduce, until a warm spring day will find me in just the T, regretting I haven’t swapped out the shell for something a bit more breathable.
You can spend a lot of money on fancy layers (nothing wrong with that), but its also really quite straightforward to do otherwise (it’s the trapped air that’s keeping you warm, and that’s the cheap part!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Problem with down is that it doesn't work so well if it gets wet, or if your shell is compressing it. The downsides to fleece would be extra weight and doesn't pack.down so small - neither of which is particularly problematic for lift served downhill skiing.
@NoMapNoCompass, use of a down jacket mimicks mine - in a backpack and thrown on over the top if I'm stopping.
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You can spend a lot of money on fancy layers (nothing wrong with that), but its also really quite straightforward to do otherwise (it’s the trapped air that’s keeping you warm, and that’s the cheap part!)
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A lot of truth in that. You really don't need "polartec" or "merino". On really cold days I've even used cotton t-shirts for a bit of extra layering and they worked fine. The same could be said for lots of "technical" clothing, where companies are trying to sell you absolute overkill you don't really need.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@boarder2020, cotton’s not great if you’re sweating …
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As per others down not good for exertion IME.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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as they say, "cotton'll kill ya"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I haven't bought fleece of any sort for years. Merino base layers, and a double layer jacket with synthetic down (hubby feather allergic) and outer shell. Cotton is horrid. If you sweat it doesn't dry out and then get cold and you shiver. Merino is more expensive, but last a lot longer, and doesn't smell. If really cold, merino vest added in.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks everyone.
As above I should have amended the heading, I was referring to synthetic down jackets, my shortlist is probably down to:-
Patagonia Nano Air
Arc’teryx Atom LT ore Proton LT
Rab Xenon
I am unfortunately a sucker for branding, anyway I like to buy good quality kit that I can keep for years, but the final call will be probably be which looks best.
Following your comments, I suspect that I don’t need anything super warm, since I will also have a fleece which I can double up with and most likely wear it at mountain stops. Does need to breath, but doesn’t need to be super waterproof or wind proof because I have a decent shell.
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@DavidYacht, I have a couple of Patagonia nano air pieces. Really like it - if you got one of the hoodies you could wear that for most things without a shell unless it’s properly snowing/raining. And it’s very breathable so all the stuff about down not breathing does not apply
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