 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All
Firstly, i'm a but out of my depth here so be gentle!
I have an old Burton Clash 158 that I bought around 2007. It has seen me through 9 one week holidays since so it has been lightly used. We go once a year but missed a few years due to covid, children being born etc.
I've always though the board was a bit long. I'm 5'10" and a skinny enough 71kgs. I have old Burton custom bindings and Burton Moto boots, both bought at the same time. The bindings are the old 3D baseplates. The boots are the old lace up types. They're quite large at size UK11.5. I'm normally a size 10 in runners etc but the boots are a good fit. Maybe they fit small? However, I find they hang over the edge of the board a bit too much. I think the board width is 23.5cm.
I should say that all the equipment is in good condition. No major damage to any of it and it served me well this year again.
I can't help but feel (a) that the board is a little long (I sometimes have to fight it to turn quickly), (b) its a bit narrow for my boot size and (c) technology has come a long way since I bought.
I like to cover miles on the piste and only venture off piste when there is some nice accessible powder nearby. I will ride pretty much any groomed slope. I rarely venture into the parks.
Budget is a bit tight as we now have 3 little ones in tow when we go on holiday.
As we live in the West of Ireland I have no option to view or test any equipment. We normally go to the larger resorts (we were in Tignes this year) but are heading to Montgenevre on Jan 21st and I don't hold out much hope of there being too many boards to look at there? So i'm probably looking at ordering online which is daunting when my knowledge is limited.
I think my options are (a) stick with that I have. They're in good condition, I'm only getting out once a year at the moment so there's less value in upgrading everything (b) is upgrading just the board possible? Can I get a disk that will be compatible with modern boards or the Burton channel system? It they are, I would consider just a new board for this year or (c) upgrade board and bindings which will be pricey but maybe worth it over the lifetime of the equipment.
And on top of all that I'm looking for recommendations for a new board that might suit my needs.
Thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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11.5 boots? You need a wide-board.
At £75-£90 to take your ‘old’ board, why not rent & use your own boots?
Lots of piste chargers around, but at £500 for a new board, is it good value?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think I'd take another look at your boots. It would be really unusual to be 1.5 sizes bigger in Burton boots than in street shoes. Most people (myself included) wear the same size in Burton as they do in normal boots. This would probably make quite a big difference to board feel, especially given that a UK11.5 is definitely into wide board territory, whereas UK10 isn't really.
The Clash was an entry-level board, although it always got good feedback as a board you could progress on and not grow out of too quickly. It definitely wasn't 23.5 wide though, that would be tiny (into kids board territory). Very likely about 250mm waist, as with most Burton all-rounders of that era. To be honest, 158 is probably about right for your height weight, certainly for that board as it was designed (there has been a mild trend towards shorter boards in recent years).
A bit of google-fu suggests a Clash 158 from that time period had a 252 waist and a rider weight-range of 59-92kg, so you're right in the middle. A 252 waist would be too narrow for size 11.5, but you might just get away with it with size 10s and a reasonably compact pair of boots.
You can get discs to use your existing bindings with the new channel system or with any board using the more common 4x2 style inserts. Most shops would probably just give you a pair from their vast stash in the workshop if you're buying a board from them. If you really can't find any, I'll send you some! No problem at all to just upgrade the board.
I'm gonna go for the self-interested instructor point of view and suggest investing in some coaching instead of a new board if you're struggling to turn it, because it should be a pretty easy-turning board! 
Otherwise, board suggestions on a budget? Check out the Amplid Ticket or Burton Cartographer for starters.
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@stevomcd, My guess would be If the boots label says 11.5, then either it is US size, or bought to fit & have not packed out the normal 1 size.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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^ I was just about to say US or UK boot size……..
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| Gored wrote: |
11.5 boots? You need a wide-board.
At £75-£90 to take your ‘old’ board, why not rent & use your own boots?
Lots of piste chargers around, but at £500 for a new board, is it good value? |
Very fair point. I had automatically included the board on the booking for this year anyway. Plus it saves a suitcase as we stuff it with boots, helmets, clothes etc!
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| Gored wrote: |
| @stevomcd, My guess would be If the boots label says 11.5, then either it is US size, or bought to fit & have not packed out the normal 1 size. |
Definitely UK11.5. Label is US13/UK11.5 and clearly visible.
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I think the smartest thing to do here is get rid of those clown shoes and get some proper fitted boots. Look at Burton Rulers as a sensible upgrade. I have always had Burton boots at half size larger. I'm normally a UK 9 though some brands I wear 9.5. My Imperials are 9.5 fit great as they give me slightly extra width. Once you get decent boots then try your setup again and if you're still struggling might be lesson time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stevomcd wrote: |
I think I'd take another look at your boots. It would be really unusual to be 1.5 sizes bigger in Burton boots than in street shoes. Most people (myself included) wear the same size in Burton as they do in normal boots. This would probably make quite a big difference to board feel, especially given that a UK11.5 is definitely into wide board territory, whereas UK10 isn't really.
The Clash was an entry-level board, although it always got good feedback as a board you could progress on and not grow out of too quickly. It definitely wasn't 23.5 wide though, that would be tiny (into kids board territory). Very likely about 250mm waist, as with most Burton all-rounders of that era. To be honest, 158 is probably about right for your height weight, certainly for that board as it was designed (there has been a mild trend towards shorter boards in recent years).
A bit of google-fu suggests a Clash 158 from that time period had a 252 waist and a rider weight-range of 59-92kg, so you're right in the middle. A 252 waist would be too narrow for size 11.5, but you might just get away with it with size 10s and a reasonably compact pair of boots.
You can get discs to use your existing bindings with the new channel system or with any board using the more common 4x2 style inserts. Most shops would probably just give you a pair from their vast stash in the workshop if you're buying a board from them. If you really can't find any, I'll send you some! No problem at all to just upgrade the board.
I'm gonna go for the self-interested instructor point of view and suggest investing in some coaching instead of a new board if you're struggling to turn it, because it should be a pretty easy-turning board!
Otherwise, board suggestions on a budget? Check out the Amplid Ticket or Burton Cartographer for starters. |
Thanks for your well though out response. Much appreciated.
As pointed out elsewhere, perhaps sorting out the boots might be the best starting point.
On the board width, i'll take out a measuring tape tomorrow and let you know.
When I say I struggle to turn the Clash, I mean every now and then I bail on a turn! But point very well made and I have already booked a private lesson for the beginning of this year's trip.
Thanks for the board tips. Something like this? https://www.burton.com/ie/en/p/mens-burton-cartographer-camber-snowboard/W22-229421.html
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| Gainz wrote: |
| I think the smartest thing to do here is get rid of those clown shoes and get some proper fitted boots. Look at Burton Rulers as a sensible upgrade. I have always had Burton boots at half size larger. I'm normally a UK 9 though some brands I wear 9.5. My Imperials are 9.5 fit great as they give me slightly extra width. Once you get decent boots then try your setup again and if you're still struggling might be lesson time. |
Point taken, thanks. Looks like it might be the best place to start. Cheers
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A narrower board means your boots are going to overhang & increase the chances of catching a toe - that is going to make turning more difficult.
Are you bailing on turns for a reason?
You could hire (or ask to borrow!) a wide board to compare. If you know how to turn but it is the board that is holding you back, you should see an instant improvement with a more responsive board.
As for boards, without knowing budget, but you can probably pick up a Yes Basic or Rossignol One LF for around £200-£250 (does not need to be a 2023 version!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I’ve got us12 feet and get boot out problems on wide boards still.
Wouldn’t say that makes it difficult to initiate a turn but it does make it difficult to make a deep carve or turn harder in soft or heavy snow.
Definitely worth getting fitted properly for boots before anything else. If you can find some with a reduced volume that are a great fit it will help too.
If your board hasn’t been serviced for a while, a wax, edge and base structure could make it easier to turn as well. And maybe a lesson too. Wouldn’t be worth going too wild on the board shopping until you have worked through the other easily addressed issues first.
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first of all you have to find the exact length of your feets...
i suppose you mean 10 in the UK sizes this is 11 in US....
With 10 UK for sneakeras, you need a 9 UK for snowboard boots....
However forget this sizes and mess you MP .... for 11 US (10 UK) i suppose your feet are around 29 MP with +/- sone mm
that means you have to find boots with 29 MP ... or max. 29,5 ...
When you have your pair of boots then you have to mess the outside sole size of the boots....with 29 MP the boots must be around 31 cm....if burton or adidas maybe 30.XX...if you choose Deeluxe (e.g.) maybe 31.XX
if we assume that your boots are 31 cm, the board must have 31-5 = 26 Waist widt minimum....or even 27 WW if you carve really on the edges....
The most important : find the boots which are the appropriate
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You know it makes sense.
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| hang11 wrote: |
| Wouldn’t be worth going too wild on the board shopping until you have worked through the other easily addressed issues first. |
Another massive vote for this!
| turms2 wrote: |
first of all you have to find the exact length of your feet...
and measure your MP |
@turms2 - hope you don't mind the (slightly amended and rather abbreviated) quote, but I agree massively on OP tracing around his feet to then get his Mondo Point (MP) sizing / measurement.
I'm a bit surprised that we in the UK and the US still use our own strange and somewhat arbitrary sizing scales instead of just using MP.
Won't solve all problems when it comes to foot shape, with different brands being better for different shapes , but having an idea about actual feet length would definitely be a good place to start.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@adriangrogan - as someone who's also somewhat out of his depth when it comes to knowing where to start with boards, I spend a lot of time on eBay... not always with the intention of actually buying anything.
I'll have a look at what second hand boards are getting sold, pick one, and then go off and do a little research about that board in particular, reading / watching various reviews.
I find it saves me getting overwhelmed by the sheer volume of boards and information to consider, and educate myself a little bit, even if I don't end up bidding on 99% of them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| jebroni3_16 wrote: |
| hang11 wrote: |
| Wouldn’t be worth going too wild on the board shopping until you have worked through the other easily addressed issues first. |
Another massive vote for this!
| turms2 wrote: |
first of all you have to find the exact length of your feet...
and measure your MP |
@turms2 - hope you don't mind the (slightly amended and rather abbreviated) quote, but I agree massively on OP tracing around his feet to then get his Mondo Point (MP) sizing / measurement.
I'm a bit surprised that we in the UK and the US still use our own strange and somewhat arbitrary sizing scales instead of just using MP.
Won't solve all problems when it comes to foot shape, with different brands being better for different shapes , but having an idea about actual feet length would definitely be a good place to start. |
of course every brand has some own differences. However the MP is the base. Then someone has to choose which is better for the shape of the feeets but the feet length is the first step.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 6-12-22 11:55; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| adriangrogan wrote: |
| ... I can't help but feel (a) that the board is a little long (I sometimes have to fight it to turn quickly), (b) its a bit narrow for my boot size and (c) technology has come a long way since I bought. ... |
(a) It's an "entry level" board though and it's the right length for your weight. What does the "fight" look like? For sideslipping that board's as good as any I'd say, and the length can't be a problem: Burton sizing for boards is good. It takes most people more days over a shorter period to actually learn to ride - it may be a rider issue more than an equipment issue.
(b) is easy enough work out, but if you're cranking it over hard enough to get "boot out" then you'd probably have other issues anyway, and you'd know exactly what that was. I'm not sure I'd worry about that, although as others have said, getting correctly sized boots is a good place to start.
(c) There was a lot of marketing and some experimentation with now desperately out of fashion base profiles, which you did well to avoid. None of them make much difference to almost everyone, sadly.
I would suggest renting boards to experiment. Find out what a bigger and a smaller board feel like. Then rent the one you find easiest to ride, because that's the one you'll progress quickest on. By the time you can "out ride" a board, you'll have learnt precisely why that is, and what you want from the next one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| turms2 wrote: |
haha...which quote? the size of the feet = the size of the XXX? or did i missunderstand something....
of course every brand has some own differences. However the MP is the base. Then someone has to choose which is better for the shape of the feeets but the feet length is the first step. |
Just that I cropped (and slightly corrected) your long and very helpful post into the little bit I quoted, that's all.
I think you'd translated messen as mess, rather than measure (as it should be in this case) for example, and didn't want to cause offence in doing so.
One hundred percent agree that MP / feet length is where to start 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Start with getting the right size boots.
It may transpire that you do need a wide board with those enormous plates.
If you want to use the Channel system, Endeavour snowboards (Canadian I think) have licensed the Burton Channel.
Me and 2 of my sons rode Endeavour boards the last few seasons and were very happy with them.
Do you find you bail on committing to frontside or backside turns, or both?
Bailing on Frontside is not uncommon if its steep / bumpy / icy as you dont necessarily feel you have enough control / grip / purchase to launch head first into the fall line.
Backside you cannot see, and ignorance is bliss 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@adriangrogan, another point to add is that most of Burton's boot have a reduced footprint so if you do get proper fitting boots and they are an actual size 10 or 10.5 UK they you may find your overhang has greatly reduced.
Different brands do fit differently and tbh I measured in MP but it didn't really help when ordering online. Best way is to try as many pairs on as possible.
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The op needs to forget uk sizing completely and measure ones own feet in mm/cm otherwise go in circles for another decade.
Ideally you get a boot fitter to do this measuring weighted unweighted but your location time etc may mean a internet diy learning curve until you get in resort .
Also once your feet are sized in the future consider the correct superfeet footbeds but fo now this may be a bridge too far without a bootfitter
You must learn to work in mm/cm for "your feet and alpine boots" whatever it takes nothing else applys.
If you can use goggle then a burton boot chart or other brand is available with Mondo Jap or Cm sizing .
Boots are marked in mondo or mm/cm or Jap and burton does true half cm sizes ...as not all brands do .
Its just the first step as alot more exists in doing this... so if you fk it up its going to be a long expensive painful road on your favorite week a season .
Its way more important than the board as bootfit is the foundation ,boards are easy boofit can be tough differcult expensive and painful so you must have it more right than wrong .
Way more important than buying any board ,boards are easy a older serviced 10mm tapered burton supermodel in the right lenght for £100 would work fine for getting round a resort .
If you dont know your own two seperate foot lenghts and widths in mm/cm then your going to be confused as you do not know your own feet or mondo boot lenght in mm/cm (so your effectively fkd as are the larger one to two week herd ie. estimated 80% at least are in oversized boots)
People go 30 years in oversized boots its very common even two or three sizes too big .
Trainer/shoes have nothing to do with alpine bootfit used under load ie. "high forces at Speed " in minus temps on low angle or steeps on hardpack .
Here is the first chart that came up .
https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/size-charts/burton-snowboard-boots-size-chart-fit-guide
Figure out both your foot lenghts in mm/cm weighted flexed at the knees vs sitting unweighted may be a few mm difference but this matters,
True half sized lasted boots require the devil in the detail if you want to get within 5mm or 10mm regards lenght.
One other small point of many to come is "you must force your heel into the heel pocket of the boot" when sitting down putting boots on bang the bootheel down to get your heel tucked in the heel pocket .
If your foot is forward in the boot ie the heel not pushed firm into the heel pocket .....you cant even put a alpine boot on your foot properly .
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when you first wear the boots (according to your MP) you always think "fxxxK....they are too small"....because the toes struggling to find some room...
Tipp : wear the boots but leave everything loose....for 15-20 min. seat somewhere and leave your feet/boots to rest on the heels....after 15-20 stand up and make the boots tight...then take the position for snowboarding...you will notice immediately that the boots are not so small as you thought...that works especially with burtons and some other modes where the j-bars of the inliner are really big/fat
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks to all for taking the time to share your expertise. It has been a huge learning for me.
I've ditched the idea of changing the board for now. I've measured my MP at home (which of course shows my current boots are too big) and hope to get it professionally measured this side of Christmas if I can. If I can get boots before we go in January, then great. If not i'll see what I can get in resort or might rent boots in my correct size and look to buy at a later date.
Thanks again. I feel like a right muppet for using boots that are too big for so long.........
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Cool, good plan!
I would just say that there is a whole lot of incredibly verbose voodoo above about boot sizing. It's not wrong, but it's definitely possible to over-think this. For most people, street-shoe size is a good starting point. Maybe a half size or so smaller if it's not making your toes curl. Get them heat-moulded if possible, to reduce any hot spots your feet might have (bunions, bone spurs, deformed toes....).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@adriangrogan,
There are lots of ‘print at home’ foot measurements to get a boot idea size.
Thing is, not all boots are the same & neither the liners.
Some liners can pack out a whole foot size, while others are designed to be already packed out.
Roughly Intiution 1 to intuition 3 liners for example.
Getting boots that will pack out sound good, however, if they pack out & still tight, then the boots was to small to begin with.
As you can see, it’s a  minefield. In my experience, Burton run slim, ThirtyTwo run short, ie every brand is up in sizing one way or another…. Oh! And some (like Burton) do Asian sizing. A whole new sizing game. Unfortunately injection moulding and snowboarding is very hit & miss. Very much Caveat Emptor
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I’ve been snowboarding (obsessively  ) for about 30 years and the hardest lesson I’ve learned in that time and still stuff up on is just get the best fitting and performing boots you can find. A crap old board and bindings will still get the job done, bad boots won’t get the job done.
So my advice is go to a proper bricks and mortar store with proper snowboarders who know their stuff working in there, spend heaps of time trying on as many boots as you can, ask loads of questions about them, take them to a proper boot fitter and get them heat moulded and custom footbeds made, spend loads of money and then love them like an old hooker and ride them till they’ve got nothing more to give. Your investment in them will pay back ten fold in ear to ear grins.
Really don’t mess around with rentals. You will get trench foot, verrucas, be in pain and not laying down good turns.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
proper bricks and mortar store with proper snowboarders
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This.
I went to the Absolute Snow store (Watford) and bought my last pair - think I tried on maybe 4 or 5 pairs, and deboxed about twice that number after the debacle with the Vans I had previously (leaked because of dodgy design so I wanted to make sure that the things had a proper gaiter between the tongue and the boot.)
Get up close and personal with the things - touch 'em, bend 'em, weigh 'em, pull the liners out, bend them about, make sweet sweet love to 'em if you have to (caution: may invalidate warranty, and result in visit from constabulary).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Also don’t get hung up on the lacing system. I can never understand why people insist on boa. It’s not like it’s hard to do up laces, and personally I’ve never put on a boa boot that I find comfortable.
Maybe.not an issue for op but I’ve seen boa dials get ripped off boots when boot packing which is a potential nightmare.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| hang11 wrote: |
| then love them like an old hooker and ride them till they’ve got nothing more to give. |
Best advice yet 
Seriously though never liked boa neither and lace ups aren't as bad as you might think (you have Motos so you know ) but I wouldn't trade the speed lace system from Burton. Tried most boots and they are by far the best but my imperials fit me so that's the most important. Trust me mp doesn't help when ordering online. It narrows your choices but go to a store it's the best way.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 13-12-22 0:31; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Go to a store and try on for sure. I’m in Clare and we’ve no snowboard shops out here for sure. I’ve bought a couple of pairs in Bristol (family visit) and a couple in resort.
As far as lacing goes I’ve ended up with some form of ‘speed lace’ on all my boots just because they were the boots that fitted best. Easy, quick to do and adjust and secure - never tried a boa set up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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well on line is also an option
But you need a LOT OF TIME... i started seraching last Januar (i was in quarantane, and had nothing better to do), and after many nany tests i found the boots i need.
Except that about BOA , SL or normal lacing...i have been with BOA since 2010 i think...i bought a pair of Vans Aura in Canazei and until now i used them without a problem at all....to be honest , they are almost destroyed i have to repair the fades my self and put from deeluxe something to be more stiff (they were toooo soft after 12 years) but otherwise i didnt had a problem at all.
I am 100% satisfied with boa.
However i dont had a problem to buy with SL as Burton or normal lacing.
The most important is that the boots fitt perfect...the lacing is no2
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A couple years ago I bought a new pair of malamutes cheap online. Been riding malamutes for years. Got the same size as usual and they were way bigger than usual. Ended up selling them and getting a new pair from a later season I tried on first in the same size and back to a great fit.
Bought my fruit boots online too because they only sell them in America, but went to a boot fitter to get measured and checked against a similar AT boot in store before ordering - super nervous dropping $2k on mail order boots but they fit fine.
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FAQ
