 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I'm just checking out what travel insurance to get for my trip in February.
The policy I've checked has this exclusion clause for claims:
We will not pay any claim for: "winter sports equipment being lost, stolen or damaged as a result of being left unattended or your deliberate, willful or malicious act or carelessness or neglect."
The dreaded scenario (which I've never experienced and to be honest I have no idea how common it actually is, but my guess it is very rare) is someone decides to walk off with my skis left outside when having lunch/drinks etc at a bar or restaurant. I'm guessing a lot of policies have the same exclusion.
Do policies always have that exclusion, does anyone know of policies that would actually cover that scenario? Or is it basically hope for the best, or if it does actually happen, make up some elaborate story with the insurer about what actually happened? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pretty standard I'd expect. Get a cheap pocket lock and they'll stay where you leave them!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pctaylor, definitely lock them...how old are your skis? they generally don't pay out new for old so after a few years you get nothing anyway
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It is common for travel insurance policies to have exclusions for certain types of losses or damages. In the case of winter sports equipment, many policies may exclude coverage for losses or damages resulting from the equipment being left unattended or due to the policyholder's own actions or negligence. However, this can vary from policy to policy, so it is always important to carefully read the terms and conditions of any policy you are considering purchasing. If you are concerned about the potential loss or damage of your winter sports equipment, you may want to consider purchasing a policy that specifically covers that type of equipment. It is always best to ask the insurer directly if you have any questions or concerns about their coverage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pctaylor wrote: |
| ... We will not pay any claim for: "winter sports equipment being lost, stolen or damaged as a result of being left unattended or your deliberate, willful or malicious act or carelessness or neglect.".. |
I'm laughing as that sounds like a massive "get out of jail free" clause.
I think they may have some trouble with that if challenged, because it's clearly a useless policy if it doesn't cover the very circumstances people are going to need it for.
If you're not leaving your gear unattended, then it's hardly likely to be "lost, stolen or damaged". Similarly if you ride without being "malicious" or "careless" or "neglectful", then you're not going to damage the things. What are they covering, precisely? And what proportion of the replacement cost are they offering?
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That's got me thinking; would hire skis also be subject to this type of clause? I'm pretty sure if my hire skis were to be taken by someone else whilst I'm at lunch then the hire shop would attempt to make me pay for their loss. Mind you after skiing for over 30 years I've never lost a pair of skis in this manner.
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@phil_w Yes my thoughts exactly..insurance is increasingly a scam and they are getting worse and worse at adding exclusions onto stuff.
Note this is a mainstream insurer (Admiral), but I'm guessing this is fairly common although I haven't checked and thought I'd ask here first.
This is another good one!
We will not pay any claim for: winter sports off-piste activities away from recognised paths or outside of the resort boundaries.
LOL. Isn't all off-piste skiing always away from recognised paths??!? 
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| halfhand wrote: |
| That's got me thinking; would hire skis also be subject to this type of clause? I'm pretty sure if my hire skis were to be taken by someone else whilst I'm at lunch then the hire shop would attempt to make me pay for their loss. Mind you after skiing for over 30 years I've never lost a pair of skis in this manner. |
Yes, this applies to both skis owned by you and also rental skis, at least it does for this policy I'm looking at.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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MorningGory, when you think about it, the practice of leaving your skis just lying about wherever is rather odd.
A remnant really of a bygone age.
Almost everyone now locks up their bikes - probably worth about the same.
So why not your skis?
And a ski lock is pretty cheap considering the inconvenience of finding your skis gone.
As MorningGory and holidayloverxx advise: get a lock.
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| Quote: |
We will not pay any claim for: winter sports off-piste activities away from recognised paths or outside of the resort boundaries.
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I guess this is a N American thing. Europe doesn't have "resort boundaries" in that sense.
I have left skis outside countless restaurants and they've been fine (sometimes split up with a friend's). But I did have a pair nicked when I left them at a ski bus stop then went off to have a drink and left them there.  We left skis and boards on our "garden level" balcony at the apartment for 15 years. French neighbours laughed when my husband initially threaded a chain through the bindings, and stuck a padlock on it. He soon gave up. But they probably weren't super-desirable skis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@pctaylor, you could make a good case that that insurance covers you for the classics, Col Pers, Mickey's Ears, Pisteur's Couloir etc (yes a very Espace Killy focussed list I know) as they are all well recognised 'paths' but not some tiny bit of side piste between two blue runs! I wouldn't fancy trying to claim on that though
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As above they generally won't pay new for old and you wouldn't leave £500 worth of bike or anything else for that matter unattended.
Snowcard used to allow you to remove such cover. I remember chatting to one of their agents about the new for old thing and he said, yeah because of that I don't bother with it.
I suspect they pay out rarely and a small amount on this part of the insurance.
The big ticket items for skiing is the rescue, medical and third party liability type stuff. Most of the rest is fluff.
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| pctaylor wrote: |
@phil_w Yes my thoughts exactly..insurance is increasingly a scam and they are getting worse and worse at adding exclusions onto stuff.
Note this is a mainstream insurer (Admiral), but I'm guessing this is fairly common although I haven't checked and thought I'd ask here first.
This is another good one!
We will not pay any claim for: winter sports off-piste activities away from recognised paths or outside of the resort boundaries.
LOL. Isn't all off-piste skiing always away from recognised paths??!? |
That is just typical weasel words from companies who wanted to try and have out for anything and everything. Some companies like Snowcard, BMC, MPI are have more sensible wording but a bit more £££.
Lots of threads about insurance on here.
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You know it makes sense.
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Lock up the skis. That's reasonable and they aren't then unattended - they are attended by the lock. I don't think it's particularly weaselly - you wouldn't expect them to pay out on a bike left unlocked on the street or a burglary where you've left your doors open - though they could of course be clearer about specifying locks/lockers. Technically skis in the ski room are unattended but it would highly unreasonable to expect you to take them to bed with you against hotel rules etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I lock mine up in the ski room as well...even in my own place after a friends skis were taken. I paid the hausmeister to screw some big eye bolts into the wall. Bizarrely I saw the skis in the room about 5 years later and left a note to say they had been accidentally taken. They were left behind at the end of the week
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Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting comments..quite a few suggestions to lock the skis up.
Interesting that I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone do that outside bars/restaurants etc, suspect people would look at me thinking what on earth am I doing..
But I also agree it is surprising it's not more widely done, just like bikes are locked up all the time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@pctaylor, I would also check what the amount you would actually get back if stollen even if they pay out. They devalue them to next to nothing very quickly.
I do lock mine. No doubts that if somebody was determined they could easily cut the lock. However I hope that it makes others easier targets and stops idiots who don't recognise their own skis
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pctaylor, who cares what other people think. You'd look sillier with no skis halfway up a mountain
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... I guess this is a N American thing. Europe doesn't have "resort boundaries" in that sense. |
In France precisely who rescues you depends on which side of some "boundary" you are, or it did when I last had to look at that. For sure it's a different kind of boundary, and it affects costs in the opposite way to that which insurance companies think it does.
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| as above they generally won't pay new for old and you wouldn't leave £500 worth of bike or anything else for that matter unattended. |
They're all insured, I suppose, unlike me. Oh, wait.
Actually if someone steals my race board and bindings, which are about £1,500 to replace, the major hassle is not having them whilst I wait for replacements from Switzerland, not particularly the donation of $100 to the funds of some junkie. Hence the insurance thing doesn't work even if they didn't have the exclusion clauses and all that - I just want to ride, not spend my time talking to the police, filing reports, taking insurance people to court, and not having my board. So I lock it. And try not to leave it in the obvious places for board theft.
I do hope everyone else continues to donate to the thieves and insurance companies though, I kind of depend on that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
MorningGory, when you think about it, the practice of leaving your skis just lying about wherever is rather odd.
A remnant really of a bygone age.
Almost everyone now locks up their bikes - probably worth about the same.
So why not your skis?
And a ski lock is pretty cheap considering the inconvenience of finding your skis gone.
As MorningGory and holidayloverxx advise: get a lock. |
I guess as where you tend to leave skis as not many skis are locked, so the chances of them being stolen is quite low, versus bikes where everyone locks bikes and if you didnt then yours is more likely to be stolen?
I do take a cable lock, but usually I don't end up locking them at lunch places as I tend to find that there are better skis around than mine sitting around unlocked. The time I wish I did, for peace of mind, we'd rented some very nice skis to try them out for a day, but had forgotten to take the lock. But luckily nothing happened.
In any case I don't think the locks most would carry would defeat determined thieves (here's a recent thread on the subject - https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5038780&highlight=ski+lock#5038780) nor do I think you would get much of an insurance payout after they value them as 2nd hand skis, if not new for old, and take off the excess. Only if you've rented and the rental co demand some ridiculous amount to compensate might the insurance be useful. But then you'd be better off taking any insurance the rental shop offers as less likely to quibble if a claim was needed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I reckon Staysure win on policy exclusions. Their policy wording includes:
"You are not covered in areas classified as avalanche rating 3 or above."
When I asked if this applied purely to off piste I got the following clarification:
"I can confirm you will not be covered for an avalanche risk 3 or above either on or off piste."
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Thieves are rational, they take the low fruit. So make it harder: split 'em up, lock 'em, hide 'em, make 'em ugly. Or, take your chances. I happen to think locks confound the honest and amuse the dishonest, but that's just me.
The last straw for me on locks was when the internet showed us how to open one of those heretofore high-security circular bike locks with a Bic pen!
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If no one has pointed this out, the real problem is not someone poling up and jumping in your bindings and away (though that does happen). It's organised gangs with transit vans driving up to restaurants/bars and having 200 pairs away at a time. If the place you've left your kit is ONLY accessible by ski then you'll almost certainly be alright. Otherwise, keep an eye on your skis, as a lock is a "look at me" sign.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| Pretty standard I'd expect. Get a cheap pocket lock and they'll stay where you leave them! |
I once had a cheap lock removed and the skis left behind by some comedian.
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| Layne wrote: |
| The big ticket items for skiing is the rescue, medical and third party liability type stuff. Most of the rest is fluff. |
Wise words! This is what you really need to pay close attention to.
And on that note, some "winter sports" insurance policies, exclude "search and rescue" in the small print. Or, like Revolut Premium Insurance, put a limit of £5,000 on it. This could get very tricky indeed, if you have to be helicoptered off a mountain; and even more tricky if you have to be searched-for in an avalanche, and then helicoptered off the mountain.
But then Revolut include "Emergency Transportation" — would that not included a helicopter if you are injured on a mountain? It's not really rescue is it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| joffy69 wrote: |
| If no one has pointed this out, the real problem is not someone poling up and jumping in your bindings and away (though that does happen). It's organised gangs with transit vans driving up to restaurants/bars and having 200 pairs away at a time. If the place you've left your kit is ONLY accessible by ski then you'll almost certainly be alright. Otherwise, keep an eye on your skis, as a lock is a "look at me" sign. |
The smash and grab at the front des neige or the unlocked outside access ski room certainly seems the highest probablility. Otherwise accidental on mtn grabs can take place quite often (people who rent skis often pay little attention to exactly what their skis look like) - you can obviously improve your chances there by a) stickering them distinctively and b) ensuring your skis are as trashed as possible. There will always be the odd scrote who fancies an upgrade or a extra pair and figures tourists rotate out the next Saturday so on mtn isn't totally bulletproof, obviously the easiest for lift access the better pickings.
I disagree that a lock is a look at me sign - it's a more hassle sign with a lack of plausible deniability if the thief gets caught in the act unlike picking up an unlocked pair - "sorry I thought these were my friend's and I was getting them for him" doesn't wash so well with smashing away at a lock.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Poogle, I don't know about the rest of France, but at least in Chamonix, being choppered off the piste by PGHM is free. Which works out a lot cheaper than being taken down by blood wagon and ambulance to hospital.
Moral of the story - if you're going to wipe out, go big. But not too big...
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It can happen that, skiing off-piste, you need a helicopter rescue simply because you have lost or broken a ski without injuring yourself. How many insurers would pay for that?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| It's organised gangs with transit vans driving up to restaurants/bars and having 200 pairs away at a time |
Has this ever actually happened?  If so, where?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mountainaddict, didn't it reported in St Anton on here?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes, there was a thread a while ago now around whether heli-evac is covered off-piste if you simply take a wrong turn and end up somewhere dangerous r a dead end, where the only option is to be helicoptered out. My recollection is that one poster had this happen to them and ended-up paying the full cost of the extraction. And then various people posted extracts of their policies which implied the same disclaimer. The conclusion was that if it happened to you then it was better to feign an injury so as to be covered. Which seems perverse, but that's insurance for you. Some people commented that this wasn't going to be an issue for on-piste skiers, but although it's unlikely, this was contested because in bad weather or due to mis-reading the map, it's possible to imagine a situation where a regular piste skier gets lost and ends up somewhere inaccessible.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@LaForet — good points, many thanks. I think that Revolut + Carrée Neige (in France) is a good bet for me. Revolut gives me unlimited skiing days anywhere in the world; on or off piste.
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