 Poster: A snowHead
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So just had a new Capita Ulta Fear and a set of Union Flite Pro bindings delivered for the 14 yo.
Just tried mounting the bindings are the screws are shockingly short. Initially I coudn't actually get them to reach the scewable part of the insert, they wouldn't reach. With a lot of faff and some force, I can now get the bindings attached, but with the screws as tight as possible they are still only engaged by three quarters of a screw turn. The best is probably one turn, the worst is hanging in there (albeit seemingly tightly) on just half of a turn of the scewdriver.
I took a screw out my old custom bindings,and it is visibly longer, the thread has about 2mm ish more, it goes in like I would expect. After the screw engages, it is several full easy turns to get it in, then a half a turn or so of tightening. My new Nidecker bindings have the same length screw as the Burtons, visibly longer and more thread than the Unions.
Union have an installation video which talks about this problem and it suggests putting one screw in without the washer, getting it down, then putting the other three in, before replacing the original screw and adding the washer back in. The theory being this squishes the foam padding first so you can get the remaining screws in. Problem is the Flite Pro is a light weight stripped down binding so it actually has no foam underneath, and in the video the demonstration is still getting 3 or 4 screw driver turns of egnagement, I'm getting half to one.
Anyone else had this problem. Doesn't seem sensible to me to be riding with bindings engaged to the board by only half to one screw rotation.
I could use the old screws from my burton bindings but, there are 3D so there's only 3 of them not 4, and they are worn anyway and had a tendancy to start to loosen. This may have to be a temporary back up plan
Looked on Unions Website, but there's no phone number for support, and their accessories page only stock one size of screw so I don't think it's a packing mistake, and not that I should have to buy new screws for new bindings the ones that come should damn well fit.
Anyone had similar please ?
The other problem with ordering replacements is with postal strike I'm not sure I'll get them before our boxing day departure.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 14-12-22 15:27; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe pickup some new hardware when you are in resort - most friendly service shops will sell you some or even give you a slack handful of M6 screw bolts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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go to a hardware store and buy some to be sure that you are ready for the boxing day and also send an email to union for your problem
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So I believe, courtesey of googling, Union screws are 14mm. So I need 16mm.
Am I correct the length is the length of the thread, not the screw length itself ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wow, this is Union's useless support response I have just received via email (I submitted a request on their customer support page basically worded the same as my original post at the top). Really quite shocking support :
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thanks for reaching out to us!
Unfortunately, we are unable to offer a solution to this issue at this time.
We will consider your feedback for future binding’s developments and improvements.
We remain at your disposal. |
Off the back of that shoddiness I am tempted to take them back to Snow and Rock for a refund as not fit for purpose as supplied.
I've told them I am sharing their response here.
Quite stunned at their disdain.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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^never mind, just seen your reply. Very poor response from Union.
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@Gazzza, no - IIRC countersunk screws are measured total length (thread and head)
take care winding the screw in though as you can go too deep if it is too long and you'll potentially separate the laminate or create a lump on the base.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The bindings are brand new out the packaging so yes, originals. Using replacements is also my concern as I can see that are visibly countersunk very differently to both my Burtons and Nideckers.
Be nice if support would have said, yeah 1 turn engagement is fine, or no it's not get longer screws and we recommend X, or go to store get some new ones fitted we'll reimburse as you've just forked out for new bindings which don't work, or we'll post you some longer ones. Why they can't comment on the length of their own screws and what is suitable or not, is beyond me.
Thanks - didn't realise Groove Amarda were the distro, they were helpful when I was trying to source a Capita BSOD a month ago (which I've now got) I'll give them a call.
Cheers
G
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So I've now measured them according to this guide : https://www.rebelsquare.com/guide---binding-screws
The Union screws come up about 14-15mm according to that.
The Nidecker Supermatic screws (with built in washers) and the old Burton Custom screws, measure 16mm.
I've tried all three in the new board. Both the Nidecker screw, with or without the additional Union washer, or the Burton Custom screw with the union washer, work well in the union bindings.
The union screw is crap in the union bindings and barely engages. Go figure.
Their support have now further replied to tell me it's the board that's the problem:
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thanks for answering!
We at customer service do not have the necessary skills to properly answer this question.
We have shared your report to the technical office, and they explained that, this is not an issue related to screw’s length but to the board’s insert.
We made a Video to try to help those affected by this issue but, as you said, with the Flite pro, this trick doesn’t work.
Building a longer screw would mean making most bindings incompatible with almost all the board on the market.
So please, if the binding does not meet your needs, please return it.
We are always glad to help, when possible.
Regards,
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Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 14-12-22 16:52; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Gazzza, rules of thumb for full strength are either 3 full turns, or 1-1.5x the screw diameter (to give strength equal to the fastener). You may not need all that, but still I'd be very (very) wary about relying on 1 turn, let alone 0.5. Would you be confident that the screws aren't going to loosen at all in use?
If it was me, I'd be returning the bindings as unfit for use, and choosing a different one.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dont know if this is the case with yours or will help work etc but I did have similar previously .
Sometimes new discs will eventually flex/bend but not right away .....you have too crank them up a number of times ie rinse and repeat the process which at first seems a pain .
By rinse an repeat I also mean . ...you can also heat the discs in hot water to a lesser degree from the kettle first...this is up to you of course .
I would be very careful doing the following only after the above but also try an see if getting booted up and in the bindings and flexing them a tiny bit helps get another turn or so .
Even when mounting used bindings inside I found it best to recheck and retighten after a few runs outside in minus temps.
Discs and binding bases flex therefore can need retightening going through temp changes and compression.
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Hardware store will sell longer bolts.
They are m5 I think. Happens all the time with new bindings
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You know it makes sense.
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If you bought them at Snow and Rock then ask them to send you suitable screws for free.
They have these:https://www.snowandrock.com/p/demon-binding-screws-I6114164.html?colour=180
Which would hopefully work.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It could also be the board causing the issue, if the rivnuts are set a bit too low, but again, just a longer bolt needed. I got a box full of assorted length and size countersunk SS bolts for about $15 from my local hardware store.
Don't ever try mounting union split board bindings to a channel split board. Thats all sorts of fun with the grinder and thread lock.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Gazzza wrote: |
Their support have now further replied to tell me it's the board that's the problem:
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That's still pretty poor given that Capita and Union are effectively sister brands. I'd agree that taking it up with Snow + Rock might be the best way forward, with returning the kit as an option.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've had this issue in the past with a new setup. It loosened after a few runs and I was able to screw them in by 3 turns evenually. I would be wary of getting longer screws you could damage the board. You could also return the bindings and try a different one. Agree with everyone on the shocking response by Union. Burton would never act this way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Based on the support response I ordinarily would've returned them out of principle. But for my 14 year old, the price and spec was right, and I'm short on time before Christmas trip now to find something else. For now I've left 1 of the original screws in each binding and put 3 of my old marginally longer Burton custom ones in each. These seem to engage by about 3 turns and feel right.
I'll check every few days if the bindings loosen up and the originals will go back in with decent engagement if not I'll try snow and rock for a replacement set. I think with postal strike it might be too tight to get them delivered before our trip. I'd consider the 50 minute round trip to their Chertsey store but they have non in stock and it estimated 7 days to store pick up.
Actually I my ring snow and rock anyway and see.
Agree re. poor response from Union. They won't be a go to on my shopping list in the future.
(and I agree re. Burton being great - many years back I sent Burton a query about edge angles on my new board, they replied with the answer and said if I sent them my address they would ship me and edge guide, which they did, for free - amazing).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Gazzza wrote: |
So I believe, courtesey of googling, Union screws are 14mm. So I need 16mm.
Am I correct the length is the length of the thread, not the screw length itself ? |
Yes in general length is always from under the head, the only exception being countersunk screws.
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