 Poster: A snowHead
|
Snowheads! We’re a couple of Aussies in need of some advice.
My soon to be hubby and I are keen to move somewhere in Europe (Aug 2023-March 2024) for a ski season. I’m keen on France, he’s keen on Switzerland as he’s an instructor and has already done a season in Austria.
We’ve done plenty of reading and a lot of you have said don’t move to France… a few places I had in mind were; Morzine, Chamonix, Grenoble, St Gervais, Samoens, Briancon
Considerations:
- somewhere social, we’d love to make some mates while we’re abroad
- English speaking, he knows only basic German
- this may be precious but ideally ski in ski out, we don’t want to have to commute. I guess we will have to rent in town though unless we can get jobs on the mountain and they can provide accommodation?
- somewhere beautiful, a village we can come back and visit with fond memories
- and potentially within 1.5 hours from an airport so our friends and family can come and visit
Appreciate any tips/advice you may have. Thank you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Aussie2Europe,
You 90 mins from an airport will restrict you - suggest you up that to 180.
Any of the mega-resorts in the Tarentaise would fit most of your other requirements (and even 90 mins for some, if flying into Chambery).
With these (3 Valleys, Paradiski, Espace Killy) the ski in ski out accommodation is surrounded by the facilities - shops, bars, restaurants, cinemas, ice skating etc. Most workers live up the mountain, and don't commute from the towns in the valley.
You may want to reconsider your dates, as the season lasts 'til the end of April.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Listen to you husband.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Welcome to Snowheads. First question, what type of Visa are you hoping for? Tourist Visas do not give you the right to work but are generally EU wide. Working Visas are more country specific.
If skiing is your prime driver, then one of the larger European destinations (or one with good Public Transport) and definately in a proper town/village for that length of time.
As for Airport transfers, if you're friends and family are coming from Oz, then they will almost certainly come into a National Hub (London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, Geneva (less so!)) so they will then get a more local flight or train for the last leg. Best connections would be from Frankfurt or Paris, so that links into Geneva, Salzburg, Innsbruck or if you consider Italy, possibly Milan and Turin.
Can you perhaps refine the answers to those questions and we can help from there?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Your wish for ski in/out is at odds with being "somewhere beautiful", a proper village. There's plenty of "ski in/out" accommodation in France, and it's especially cheap in August - mid December when there'll be little or no skiing available. Most ski resorts are pretty dead "between seasons" with almost everything closed. On this season's record, even the glaciers in places like Tignes or Hintertux might have only very limited skiing available - and probably none at all in August/September.
Not clear whether you plan to work to fund your ski habit - that's a major consideration! You are unlikely to get jobs "on the mountain" if you don't speak the local language and few jobs would include accommodation. There could be visa problems with a stay of that length, even if you weren't needing to work. Lots of young Brits used to get ski season jobs in catered chalets, but since Brexit those avenues have all but dried up.
Sorry - this is a discouraging response, but others might have more positive things to say. It's a great idea!! Chamonix is a year-round town, with lots of other mountain activities available out of the ski season, and is very cosmopolitan. I don't know it well, but other Snowheads do and will be able to advise on job prospects. Places like Briancon or Annecy, proper interesting towns, might be more difficult if you don't speak French, and aren't keen on putting in the work to get up to speed with the language.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Aussie2Europe, Great plan, and fab opportunity but a couple of thoughts:-
You are going to be in Europe for 3-4 months before appreciable snowfall, so why not tour around for that period and see some of it, from Portugal waves, Spanish beaches, pyrenees autumn hiking, Italian Lakes, Croatia/ Greece ferry's and beach hopping, Skandi fjords and mountains, Alpine hiking and biking, Scotland west coast islands. There's a lot to see and sat in a ski resort waiting for the snow would drive me personally crazy when there's so much to be doing out there, great cities also, and lesser tracked areas like Slovenia, areas of France, even Morocco and the Atlas mountains just over the Med.
If I had the time (and money) to do what you propose I'd just follow the snow December - March and not make any pre-arrangements, stay 2-3 weeks here and there and keep moving, often snow can be great in a place 20-30km from where you are and snow falls in pockets, there are more snow sure places than others but I'd be headed for and including Arlberg/ Verbier/ Tignes Val/ Cham and an early season trip to Solden to get your legs. Also potentially extend your visit by a month to get some high Alpine touring done - often April/ May is the best time once the crowds have departed for warmer hobbies and deep winters over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aussie2Europe,
Should have asked - what sort of work would you be looking for?
The main source of work that includes accommodation as part of the package is with UK tour operators, but other employers offer it too. Season long accommodation (at least in Tignes) has been a problem for this season, with people on the Seasonnaire groups on Facebook having found jobs but unable to find accommodation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, for the German speaking areas (central/eastern Switzerland, Austria, Südtirol - which is a fair lump of the mountains in Italy) I would not worry about the language, you will be able to get by in English and picking up a bit as you go along. That is not quite so true in French or Italian speaking areas but in tourist areas, especially near Geneva, it is not an issue either certainly if you are only staying a few months. Wherever you stay they will be some necessary interaction with the local bureaucracy, visas, registering where you are living etc but in the bigger places they should be used to dealing with folk whose grasp of the local language is small.
If being near an airport is important then there are only really two that are within your specification of 1.5 hours (which is a bit restrictive), Zürich & Geneva. Of the two Zürich has more long haul flights and is the bigger airport (Geneva tends to be popular with brits as the cheaper airlines put on plenty off flights aimed at the UK ski market, no so good travelling from Australia). Munich is a bit more than 1.5 hours to a sensible sort of place for a longer stay, 2 hours ish but has more flights than anywhere else. Zürich is the best for public transport connections though Geneva not bad. Milan might also be worth considering, even good for Zermatt and similar places in Switzerland
No idea what the situation with working visas is, age is likely to be an issue. I suspect Switzerland might be the easiest for this. If you plan to travel around also bear in mind that there could well be limits on the time you can spend outside of whichever country you get your visa from (there is a general limit of 90 days in 180 for third country nationals). In practical terms you can probably ignore this but if you ended up in hospital it might be. There is a general shortage of people willing to work in the "hospitality" sector so, if you apply long enough in advance, you might find it is not so difficult to sort the paperwork.
If you really fancy France (nothing wrong with that) I would say places within easy reach of Geneva, Chamonix, St Gervais etc would be best. I might be inclined to say Switzerland would be the best option though
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Everyone seems to be telling you to do something different, rather than answering the questions you posed! I think most of your ideals are achievable except most probably ski-in ski-out (as someone pointed out that is only really true of the pure resorts up the hill which only open for the ski season and don't have a resident population). However depending on your accommodation budget you could be within walking distance of the main ski lift, recognising that attractive all-year towns are lower down so you may often find yourself descending by gondola.
Of the places you mention:
- Morzine. Very much English speaking, year-round town (big mountain biking scene in summer). Lowish so skiing back into the village not possible all season and I am not sure how much accommodation is near the Pleney slopes. Not sure I would call it attractive, other than the limited area around the square with the church.
- Chamonix. A proper town with some elegant Victorian architecture (it became a tourism destination early on as the centre for alpine climbing). Pretty international. However the skiing is split between a number of small areas, and while you might possibly find somewhere to stay within reach of the Brevent lift on the outskirts of the town you would need to commute to the other areas. Or live in one of the outlying villages by a different ski lift.
- Grenoble. Haven't been there, it is a proper city and hadn't heard of any skiing right on the doorstep though there are quite a few places you could commute to. Has an airport.
- St Gervais. Small all-year-round town with attractive centre dating from the popularity of its thermal spa around the turn of the twentieth century. Quite a lot of English speakers. The ski run back down to the town isn't able to be kept open all season, but it and the ski lift station are walkable from the centre, and there are a good selection of apartment blocks close to the ski lift. (This is where we chose to buy a small holiday apartment ourselves).
- Samoens. Attractive historic town with access to the Flaine area, though the ski lift is a bit out of town and I am not sure you could find accommodation close to it. Don't know about its English-speaking community.
- Briancon. Wins hands-down on historic attractiveness due to the mediaeval hill-top village, though that is a good half mile from the ski lift. Once again skiing right down is often not possible. Don't know about its English-speaking community. I suspect it is on the limit of your 90 minutes transfer from an airport, certainly a bit more than the others.
If your plan is just to chill and enjoy the skiing, then I suspect you would be able to enjoy any of them (not sure about Grenoble in terms of skiing). Although you don't want to commute, staying a whole season it would be good to have not too distant access to other areas; for example it isn't too hard to get from St Gervais to the Chamonix valley and vice versa, or from Briancon to Mongenevre. And it depends on the sort of skiing you prefer, if you want the most challenging runs and off-piste Chamonix will score highly, for a decent sized area with a mix of slopes any of them are fine.
Otherwise Switzerland, there are some great resorts there too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Aussie2Europe wrote: |
| I’m keen on France, he’s keen on Switzerland as he’s an instructor and has already done a season in Austria. |
Depending on his qualifications, it could be easier for him to get an instructing job in Switzerland than in France.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I'm not very clear from the initial post what the actual plan is in the way of things like employment nor do I have any idea what the visa situations are like in the different areas.
However if looking for casual work I question whether you are best spending all eight months in an area which is primarily about skiing. A lot of casual employment in and around ski resorts is based around skiing and casual work may be difficult to get in the summer and particularly the autumn months when a lot of your stay is when tourism is low.
If you have IT skills or such like where you can essentially work from home it may be possible but work associated with the ski area tends to be highly seasonal.
Personally I would also echo the suggestion depending on your circumstances about extending your stay into April which can often have great skiing conditions if you are on the spot to take advantage of it.
Another area to throw into the pot is Verbier or at least somwhere like Le Chable which has good access to Verbier is o nthe Swiss rail network and fairly accessible from airports and where there are a lot of Anglophones even though the area is in A Francophone part of Switzerland.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Wow I’m blown away by the generosity of the time you all spent replying to my post - thank you!!
Sorry I realise I wasn’t clear on the work situation. My hubby will be working his Aussie job remotely and I would love to just pick up some casual work if I can but not super crucial to get something locked in. I’ll have to look into Visas and all the restrictions.
Zermatt and Verbier are also on the list now, thank you. Hubby is leaning towards Verbier if anyone has any advice? Seems to be close (2h) from an airport too.
Regarding when we’re coming over, we’re headed to Scotland in Aug and probably would spend September figuring out where we’d like to head for the coming season. Thanks for the tip re extending until April, we might just do that!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, September and October are great times for walking in the Alps, and if you can manage it round your work obligations it could be a lot of fun spending a few days in each of the places you have short-listed by then. You will see what the towns are like, where places to rent are in relation to the skiing, and whether they have a decent atmosphere out-of-season for an English speaker (important for November and early December). There are lots of resources to judge whether the skiing will suit you, not least asking questions here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, If you’re in Scotland in August, please try and make to Edinburgh for a few days at least for the festival
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, if your budget is reasonably generous then Zermatt would be my choice. A pretty town, a long snow sure season and an extensive ski area. The town itself is well connected by train to both Zurich & Geneva airports, however the journey takes about 4 hours.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Must admit this is a very subjective opinion, but for me if I was going for several months O would choose Verbier over Zermatt.
Zermatt is a great place and I would certainly recommend it to visit or holiday. But for a several month stay I might find it a little oppressive. It is basically a single steep sided valley where the town gets a lot of shade in winter and has essentially one view. It is a magnificent view but it lacks a little scenic variety.
When I went with non skiing in laws for a two week holiday they found it a little oppressive by the end and wanted more space.
If staying in or around Verbier I would certainly visit Zermatt but I would choose the former as a base.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
If you fancy somewhere French I'd second the suggestion of St Gervais - earlier in the thread. It's big enough to be a town, but attractive, long-established and not just a ski resort. Lots of varied skiing around, easy access from Geneva airport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
I’ll have to look into Visas and all the restrictions.
|
Surely this has to be your starting point. Can you actually stay anywhere in Europe for 8 months? There are no visa requirements for tourists, but third-country tourists are usually restricted to 90 days in 180 in the Schengen area, although some countries (e.g. Austria) have agreements with Australia which mean that the 90 days don't count as "Schengen" days, so you can travel to Country X for 90 days AND Country Y for another 90 days, but not spend 180 days in one country. https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/before-you-go/the-basics/schengen
If you do decide to chance it and stay more than 90 days, what are the implications for your future travel plans (or employment plans) of having a big red "deported" or "future entry refused" stamp (physical or electronic) in your passport if the border officer stops you on the way out of Schengen? Can your husband actually be in Europe and work remotely for an Australian company without this having tax, social and healthcare contributions and other implications for both himself and his employer? What paperwork needs to be applied for and completed before getting to Europe - it's no good being in London or Geneva and discovering that any application has to be made in person in Australia? Then there is the issue of actually entering Schengen. There are currently no visas, but the border officer needs to be convinced that you are genuinely a tourist and not looking to work or overstay. This can mean having pre-booked accommodation, funds, health insurance and a return ticket. If the border officer is not convinced, then you might not be allowed to enter and will be on the next plane home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@quinton, and I think EES will (possibly) have been introduced by August 23?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
If you are hung up about friends visiting, then depending on the type of friend.
If they dont care about snowy weather - why not base yourself in Dolomites? Visitors can enjoy Venice.
You wont get 90mins transfers & german speaking West of Austria!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@quinton, There is a long-stay tourist visa for France, which means you are not using up Schengen days while in France if you have one, but it is only for people not working.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, if you decide on Verbier PM me as I have a good Aussie mate living there who I’m sure would help you with more detailed questions
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@quinton, the point about the 90 days in 180 thing is that it does not require a visa. Most (if not all) EU countries have longer term visas of one sort or another or specific arrangements with Australia (lots of folk like spending time in Australia too!), so for example if you sort the paperwork for Switzerland you can do the 90/180 thing in the rest of Schengen, in practice you can come and go as you wish as there are no internal checks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Aussie2Europe, agree with @j b, assessment of attributes and outlook.
Morzine fits the bill from your point of view with proviso that you're unlikely to be able to step out the door onto skis as most locations need a walk/ski bus to reach slopes. It's certainly not far, even right across the village, but definitely the reality if that's a high priority to you in convenience. Close to Geneva but wuth individual transport to be arranged regarding travel for visitors etc, this may affect your view as no relevant scheduled public transport that I'm aware of.
Same area, but located at completely opposite side of it, Champèry village in Switzerland. This connected by rail (one change) direct to Geneva and airport with station in heart of village so no additional travel arrangements needed for visiting etc. Similar deal to Morzine with unlikely to be walking out onto snow but with huge cable car access direct up to main piste from village centre, it couldn't be more convenient. Very subtle in the way it has alot to offer, worth goo**ling pictures to pick up what's there as it's very traditional village centre.
If you've any interest in mountain biking both of these locations are core interest prior to winter season coming in.
Skiing wise, Verbier has so much to offer @BobinCH, able to offer probably most insight in this area. There are various options of cost for staying at different points around this 4V area if that's a consideration, with Nendaz the largest alternative to Verbier itself with good connection (train and then bus connect up the mountain for public access from Geneva) but looking less traditional. Has fairly sociable/lively atmosphere all season too.
It would be hard to seperate in choice for me Verbier 4V area and Zermatt, each having so much but being so very different one to the other. Ideally you'd need another season to cover off each fully 
Outlier choice for this same area (it's situated in between the two above) is Grimentz, look through pictures again to gauge, as a very traditional valley and village in Switzerland. Train and then bus connect from Geneva, located in realtivly lower tourist affect high valley amongst stunning scenery and local historic buildings. If you want to experience an area that looks everything like everyone's dream of a ski holiday in traditional sense, then here is ideal. Also one that fits that memory and return element of your request and introduction of friends to something quite special.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, Verbier French speaking, Zermatt, German speaking. It also has the Matterhorn. This is not a minor point, as it is the most iconic mountain in the world, (probably). Accommodation could be tricky though for that time period, but I really don’t know as I only visit as a tourist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Aussie2Europe, Innsbruck not a bad shout initially and use trains, plenty to visit within 2 hours and then when snow arrives move on. I’d seriously suggest 2-3 centres rather than one - loads to see and do in the Alps over a full winter. +1 for Zermatt but only if you’ve got a big budget! Same for likes of Grindelwald. Davos good and some decent cheap(er) long term let’s I’d suggest. +1 for Pettneu am Arlberg too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Perhaps just me but a little weird someone asks where to ski for a season without any requirements expressed for the actual skiing terrain.
As others have said first step is work out what is legal and what visas you need and can get. Within that step it's pointless even discussing.
I know you say Europe, but Canada used to be extremely easy for Australians to get a work visa and ticks the English speaking box. Maybe something to consider
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aussie2Europe,
Some questions that may help narrow the choices:-
What is your budget for accommodation, food, entertainment, list passes, travel?
How many beds would you be wanting in your accommodation?
How would you be travelling to the Alps from Scotland (air, rail, car etc)?
Would you be looking for a resort where you could easily have day trips to other ski areas?
By ski in/ski out do you mean directly from your door? If not, how far would be an acceptable walk to the nearest slope? Over 100 yards?
From where would visiting friends be travelling? What would they expect of a ski holiday (mountain restaurants, evening meals out, etc)? And would they be staying with you in your accommodation? If not, what sort of accommodation would they be looking for?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Aussie2Europe wrote: |
| My hubby will be working his Aussie job remotely and I would love to just pick up some casual work if I can but not super crucial to get something locked in. I’ll have to look into Visas and all the restrictions. |
Hey there - great plan, but have to be a downer for a sec. As everyone else says, if you don't have EU passports things may be antsy for visas etc. And the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) will be very interested in your husband being out of the country for 8 months and still working - since his payroll will report his income. If you're not carefuly you may have to pay tax twice - once in Australia and once in your European country.
I'd also question how well someone can WFH Australian hours and then ski all day.
sorry being a downer, because I thought about the same thing and couldn't find a way to make it work...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@Aussie2Europe, An option to obtain a longer term visa may be to base yourself in Spain on their digital nomad visa scheme which starts in January 2023. https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/spain-digital-nomad-visa/
It looks like it could suit your requirements.
Maybe base yourself in the Pyrenees (which I expect to be relatively inexpensive) and visit the Alps throughout the winter season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
