 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Snowheads. I'm looking for advice on an upcoming ski trip in Switzerland.
I've been skiing in the US for the past 12+ years and finally decided to try Europe. I have booked a house in Fully Switzerland for the majority of our 6 week stay starting in February and have rented a car also. I've decided to wait till the last minute before deciding on what season pass to buy, mainly due to snow conditions. I prefer skiing powder/off piste but when there is no new snow I only ski park. I have been very spoiled in the past by skiing mainly Alta, Jackson Hole and Grand Targhee during storms. Then Park City and Mammoth for their park when there's no new snow.
I'm tending towards buying the 4 Vallees pass if it turns out to be a good snow season or The Magic Pass if it's an average season. From what I've seen online Verbier has better freeriding, and resorts like Leysin have a better terrain park. The magic pass is much cheeper so I was wondering if anyone had any advice as to how it's resorts compare on the freeriding/off piste side??? Does the freeriding in say Zinal, Grimetz, Ovronnaz and St Luc compare to Verbier?? I will be taking my skins and avalanche kit but would only be interested in side country/off piste as I'm not familiar with the backcountry in any of these areas.
Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated also. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Good questions but tricky to answer.
1 side piste in the 4V area will get tracked quicker than many/most Magic Pass resorts. This is particularly the case as February/early March is high season. If you are limiting yourself to side piste you will also not benefit from Verbier’s true potential - I’d recommend paying for a guide if you do ski there for that reason.
2 day trips to Verbier are possible (park at Le Chable for example but not as easy as you might thing if you are doing it every day for 6 weeks
3 half pipes (as opposed to jump parks) are limited in Vaud/Valais. I think Crans Montana has a good one but it is an optional extra on Magic Pass and low season only
4 Verbier is a genuine super resort (with all that entails). Magicpass resorts are not. But they do offer you a feeling of adventure and a road trip. Some also offer very good side piste options in fresh snow eg Arolla, Mont Noble to name just 2.
5 don’t forget that even if you go for a Magicpass you can still buy single or multiple days at Verbier (and it would be crazy not to).
Have a great trip when it comes!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@squidy, what dates are you there for? If the crans Montana 100 pass works for you then magic pass + crans 100 would look to be the best option for park amd powder. Grimentz, Zonal, Les Marecottes, Nax Mt Noble for powder/freeride terrain, Leysin, Crans, maybe Grimentz for park
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@squidy, if you want variety the magic pass is unbeatable and includes some great resorts like Saas Fee, Grimentz/Zinal, Villars/Diablerets as well as many smaller ones that will be very quiet out of holidays / midweek. If you want arguably the best resort in the world for expert skiers Verbier is your answer (but then I would look for accommodation closer eg Le Châble). If you decide on Verbier you should take advantage of the “Parrain pass” which means you pay 995chf instead of 1495 chf.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rambotion wrote: |
| @squidy, what dates are you there for? If the crans Montana 100 pass works for you then magic pass + crans 100 would look to be the best option for park amd powder. Grimentz, Zonal, Les Marecottes, Nax Mt Noble for powder/freeride terrain, Leysin, Crans, maybe Grimentz for park |
February 7th till March 22nd. Yeah Crans park looks awesome but won't work for the time I'm there  . Grimentz/Zinal look great for sidecountry but I get the impression Verbier is much better. It's so hard to decide due to the fact I've never skied any of them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| chrisJersey wrote: |
Good questions but tricky to answer.
1 side piste in the 4V area will get tracked quicker than many/most Magic Pass resorts. This is particularly the case as February/early March is high season. If you are limiting yourself to side piste you will also not benefit from Verbier’s true potential - I’d recommend paying for a guide if you do ski there for that reason.
2 day trips to Verbier are possible (park at Le Chable for example but not as easy as you might thing if you are doing it every day for 6 weeks
3 half pipes (as opposed to jump parks) are limited in Vaud/Valais. I think Crans Montana has a good one but it is an optional extra on Magic Pass and low season only
4 Verbier is a genuine super resort (with all that entails). Magicpass resorts are not. But they do offer you a feeling of adventure and a road trip. Some also offer very good side piste options in fresh snow eg Arolla, Mont Noble to name just 2.
5 don’t forget that even if you go for a Magicpass you can still buy single or multiple days at Verbier (and it would be crazy not to).
Have a great trip when it comes! |
Hey, yeah I decided to stay in Fully due to not being able to make up my mind where to ski yet. Le Chable does look like a better option though.
From what I've seen Verbier has a bunch of off piste bowls that run out onto the piste which look great for cliffs and fun turns. Have you seen similar terrain off the side of the piste's in Arolla, Nax, Grimentz and Zinal?? I'd be happy with the magic pass if the terrain at those resorts is similar but not as vast, but if not I'm happy to spend the extra money for a Verbier pass.
Thanks for the info 
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@squidy I wonder if overall, you might not be better opting to buy on a weekly/daily basis? Seasons passes may be cost-effective for a whole season, but you’re not there for that long. We have a holiday apartment in the 4 Vallées, and I’d defer to residents and those who’ve done a long trip regarding the pros and cons of different ski pass strategies - It’s just that any period pass tends to push you to using it when you might otherwise have done better to try somewhere else.
There is a difference between N.American and European ski areas that has been discussed on various other threads, and these can be difficult to appreciate in the abstract ahead of a trip. It’s great you’ll have the opportunity to try the diverse Swiss resorts. Standing back from repeating those threads, what I’d say is to try and leave your options open: you may find that the 400Kms of pistes and diversity of off-piste skiing in the 4 Valleys is enough to keep you happy for your entire trip - conversely, you might find that trying out a new area every 4-5 days is more appealing. It will be hard/impossible to know ahead of the trip how it will pan out for you, so ideally, you’d not limit your choices before arriving.
I know the following sounds like I’m suggesting you cancel or shorten your Fully reservation in favour of being in a resort hub or satellite, which may now be too late to alter. Staying in the valley is a perfectly sensible option, but it does mean losing a lot of each day to driving, navigating, parking and queuing, when you might otherwise be on the slopes within 25 minutes of walking out of your accommodation. Anyway, worth some consideration:
Verbier is the palce to be based in the 4 Vallées if you can afford it. If you’re put off by the cost of residence in Verbier itself, then there are places in the 4V where access is direct from your accommodation (i.e. no car needed) like Nendaz and La Tzoumaz. Or as mentioned, Le Chable in the valley between Verbier and Brunson ski zones, which also has a train station, so you can manage without a car and get there by train from inside Geneva Airport. As you might expect, if you opt for a satellite, you’re trading convenience in being at the ‘hub’ for cheaper accommodation that’s on the periphery. But being in a hub like Verbier, or a satellite like Nendaz or La Tzoumaz, or down in Le Chable doesn’t stop you from trying out other places. Yes, you’ll be getting in the car as local skiers walk past, and driving down into the valley against oncoming visitors for 30 minutes just to get onto the freeway. And the reverse at the end of the day. But you’d still be able to try nearby resorts, of which there are many. And rather than commute by car every day, for at least some of your trip, you’ll be maximising your time on the snow.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 13-11-22 14:52; edited 13 times in total
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@squidy, Grimentz and especially Zinal have a lot of lift served freeride terrain. Not all of it drops you straight back on a piste and a lot if it has a remote feel. As it it's not patrolled or avalanche protected as in North America you would want a buddy and to both be relatively clued up whereas as it sounds like you're on your own. It will be easier to meet people to ski with in Verbier than Zinal as Zinal is mostly skied by Valais locals and is dead in the week, although staying in Fully would make accessing the ski bum scene a bit trickier than if you were staying in Verbier or La Chable. Don't know about parking in Verbier but it was 10 chf a day in Grimentz last time I was there which could start to annoy you. Les Marecottes has pretty mellow terrain but seems to pick up the most snow in the area. If it I were on my own I think that I would lean towards Verbier, if I was with a friend and we both happy to explore the more remote areas I would pick magic pass. The big advantage that Grimentz has over Verbier is that there is far less competition for fresh tracks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you did opt to stay in or visit Verbier, one thing you might consider is a night or two up at the mountain cabin the Cabane du Mt. Fort at 2,457m (8,061ft). Here’s a photo’ I took this January:
If you look at the ridge in the distance, to the right of the cabin roof, you’ll see a small square building which is the Mt. Fort summit of the 4 Vallées (3,330m/11,000ft). If you look to the right of the shot, above the ‘A’ where the posts meet, you’ll see the ‘Jumbo’ gondola building at La Chaux - on the opposite side of the valley is the Bruson ski slopes: Le Chable is down in the valley between. Beyond the flag pole is the Bec des Rosses peak from which the Verbier Freeride competition starts.
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| rambotion wrote: |
| @squidy, Grimentz and especially Zinal have a lot of lift served freeride terrain. Not all of it drops you straight back on a piste and a lot if it has a remote feel. As it it's not patrolled or avalanche protected as in North America you would want a buddy and to both be relatively clued up whereas as it sounds like you're on your own. It will be easier to meet people to ski with in Verbier than Zinal as Zinal is mostly skied by Valais locals and is dead in the week, although staying in Fully would make accessing the ski bum scene a bit trickier than if you were staying in Verbier or La Chable. Don't know about parking in Verbier but it was 10 chf a day in Grimentz last time I was there which could start to annoy you. Les Marecottes has pretty mellow terrain but seems to pick up the most snow in the area. If it I were on my own I think that I would lean towards Verbier, if I was with a friend and we both happy to explore the more remote areas I would pick magic pass. The big advantage that Grimentz has over Verbier is that there is far less competition for fresh tracks |
Thanks for that. Yeah I will be with my girlfriend, but still not keen to travel hours from the lift like I do in areas like Utah. Think I would want a few seasons in these resorts before heading into the backcountry.
Do you think the off piste at Grimentz/Zinal compares to Verbier? I've just seen lots of footage of people dropping off nice cliffs and skiing strait back onto the trails in Verbier. That's what I was after. I wish Verbier had a better/larger park and the decision would be easy. Leysin's park looks super fun. Ovronnaz also looks like it could have good freeriding but can't find too much info online.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| squidy wrote: |
Do you think the off piste at Grimentz/Zinal compares to Verbier? |
No, not even close. There is a freeride area, itinerary between the resorts and a nice route off the back down to the dam but compared to the limitless options in Verbier you are comparing apples with oranges
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OK, so it's time to show the pictures that regular SnowHeads have seen so often, but which I'm very proud of, which I hope gives a flavour of the off-piste in just a part of the Verbier area. Get a hold of the piste map and if you enlarge the photo' you'll see two lift buildings: on the left is the Chassoure summit, while in the middle is Attelas and just off the photo to the right is Ruinettes. On the left, you can just make out a very straight line that runs diagonally across the area on cliff that's in shade - this is the 'itineraire' that drops down from Lac des Vaux to the col des Mines. At the col, you can drop down to Verbier, or turn right (left in the photo) down into the Vallon d'Arbi to La Tzoumaz.
A lot of the stuff in the previous photo' is hidden from view behind the front skyline. It's taken with a telephoto lens from the summit of the Savoleyres/La Tzoumaz sector, so the perspective is somewhat shortened. On the right of the picture you can see a small part of the continuous run down from Attelas to Verbier, which drops around 1227m (4,000ft). I have done it without stopping, but only once! Other SnowHeads are much more familiar with the off-piste opportunities - I'm afraid that at my age, I just go for pisted runs.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| @squidy, if you want variety the magic pass is unbeatable and includes some great resorts like Saas Fee, Grimentz/Zinal, Villars/Diablerets as well as many smaller ones that will be very quiet out of holidays / midweek. If you want arguably the best resort in the world for expert skiers Verbier is your answer (but then I would look for accommodation closer eg Le Châble). If you decide on Verbier you should take advantage of the “Parrain pass” which means you pay 995chf instead of 1495 chf. |
I forgot to mention, we did book to stay the first week in March at Le Chable. We decided that we would do at least a few days at Verbier even if we bought the Magic Pass.
What is the Parrain Pass? I couldn't find it on the website.
Also thanks for the videos you have been uploading on snow heads in other threads (2021/22 season). It's great to see updates on snow conditions.
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You know it makes sense.
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| LaForet wrote: |
If you did opt to stay in or visit Verbier, one thing you might consider is a night or two up at the mountain cabin the Cabane du Mt. Fort at 2,457m (8,061ft). Here’s a photo’ I took this January:
If you look at the ridge in the distance, to the right of the cabin roof, you’ll see a small square building which is the Mt. Fort summit of the 4 Vallées (3,330m/11,000ft). If you look to the right of the shot, above the ‘A’ where the posts meet, you’ll see the ‘Jumbo’ gondola building at La Chaux - on the opposite side of the valley is the Bruson ski slopes: Le Chable is down in the valley between. Beyond the flag pole is the Bec des Rosses peak from which the Verbier Freeride competition starts. |
Thanks for the photo. Yeah Verbier defiantly looks amazing. After reading these comments I'll for sure get that pass if the snow is good. Fingers crossed that it's a better season than last year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| LaForet wrote: |
OK, so it's time to show the pictures that regular SnowHeads have seen so often, but which I'm very proud of, which I hope gives a flavour of the off-piste in just a part of the Verbier area. Get a hold of the piste map and if you enlarge the photo' you'll see two lift buildings: on the left is the Chassoure summit, while in the middle is Attelas and just off the photo to the right is Ruinettes. On the left, you can just make out a very straight line that runs diagonally across the area on cliff that's in shade - this is the 'itineraire' that drops down from Lac des Vaux to the col des Mines. At the col, you can drop down to Verbier, or turn right (left in the photo) down into the Vallon d'Arbi to La Tzoumaz.
A lot of the stuff in the previous photo' is hidden from view behind the front skyline. It's taken with a telephoto lens from the summit of the Savoleyres/La Tzoumaz sector, so the perspective is somewhat shortened. On the right of the picture you can see a small part of the continuous run down from Attelas to Verbier, which drops around 1227m (4,000ft). I have done it without stopping, but only once! Other SnowHeads are much more familiar with the off-piste opportunities - I'm afraid that at my age, I just go for pisted runs. |
's
Thanks for this photo. That terrain looks nuts. It's endless.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| squidy wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| @squidy, if you want variety the magic pass is unbeatable and includes some great resorts like Saas Fee, Grimentz/Zinal, Villars/Diablerets as well as many smaller ones that will be very quiet out of holidays / midweek. If you want arguably the best resort in the world for expert skiers Verbier is your answer (but then I would look for accommodation closer eg Le Châble). If you decide on Verbier you should take advantage of the “Parrain pass” which means you pay 995chf instead of 1495 chf. |
What is the Parrain Pass? I couldn't find it on the website.
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It is a “friend get friend” type deal where if an existing season pass holder buys a pass along with a new pass holder they both receive it at the discounted price of 999chf. So it’s only useful if you’re getting a Verbier season (annual) pass.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@squidy, ? "better season than last year" ?
I got the impression that @BobinCH had had quite a bit of fun 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| squidy wrote: |
Thanks for this photo. That terrain looks nuts. It's endless. |
It's amazing, probably my favourite place I've skied off-piste in Europe. Huge number of options that are easily accessible directly from the lifts, or with a short hike. However, it's very popular and busy with "powder hounds" and gets tracked out very quickly on a powder day!
The last couple of times I've been, I've timed it well for a last-minute trip with a big snowfall, so I skied low-visibility powder in the trees in Bruson the first day, and then hit the Verbier side the following days when the weather had cleared.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| musehead wrote: |
| squidy wrote: |
Thanks for this photo. That terrain looks nuts. It's endless. |
The last couple of times I've been, I've timed it well for a last-minute trip with a big snowfall, so I skied low-visibility powder in the trees in Bruson the first day, and then hit the Verbier side the following days when the weather had cleared. |
That’s how to do it!
It’s still not hard to find fresh tracks for a few days after snow if you know where to look but you need local knowledge. Backside Mont Fort for example has tons of space and options. Most of the locals go out for an hour or two to open the marquee lines and are then back at work by 11am. It’s amazing how some lifts go from crazy to quiet in a couple of hours after a powder frenzy.
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