 Poster: A snowHead
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Tomorrow I embark on my journey to Hintertux for a week of skiing doing my Level 2 Alpine instructor qualification with IASI.
I've wanted to take the train for a trip skiing for a while, to see how it is, plus it being better for the environment. I was originally supposed to have been doing my Level 2 back in August in Cervinia, but with the glaciers shutting, it didn't go ahead. I had booked trains for that journey, and as I couldn't get a refund on the Eurostar, I moved it to tomorrow and am instead travelling to Hintertux.
The journey details are:
01/12/22
Yatton Dep. 10:00 - London Paddington Arr. 12:08
London St Pancras Dep. 14:31 - Paris Gare du Nord Arr. 17:47
Night in a hotel in Paris.
02/12/22
Paris Gare de l'Est Dep. 0655 - Stuttgart Arr. 10:04
Stuttgart Dep. 10:54 - Munich Arr. 13:12
Munich Dep. 13:34 - Innsbruck Arr. 15:18
Innsbruck Dep. 15:40 - Hintertux Arr 17.48 (change at Jenbach, and on to a bus at Mayrhofen.)
So it's quite a lot of moving parts, and changes!
First hiccup of the journey, I had an email tonight at 7pm tonight informing me due to "mouvement social des chefs de bord" (strikes?!) my train between Paris and Stuttgart has been cancelled. My train was the first to Stuttgart, and the next train arrives 6 minutes after my train to Munich leaves.
New plan, train through to Stuttgart tomorrow evening instead, getting in at 23:08, and a hotel there instead and a more leisurely morning. Hotel in Paris is chargeable as at 00:00 yesterday, but the same hotel I have for the journey home on Sat 10th is free cancellation. So have cancelled the following Saturday and trying to move tomorrow's booking back a week.
I'll make it to Hintertux at the same time, but it's a load of faff I could do without!
Let's see how it all goes tomorrow!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Good luck!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I did London Munich by train once (during the flight stop because of the volcano). Eurostar to Brussels, Brussels to Cologne (crazy crowded because of no planes), Cologne to Munich. Left London just before 07:00 got into Munich around 18:00, perfectly pleasant except for the crush between Brussels & Cologne.
The train departing Munich at 13:34 can often be fairly busy worth having a reserved seat (my "usual" train to St Anton via Innsbruck). It usually stops at Jenbach so should be no need to go to Innsbruck and back. If you can get an earlier train from Stuttgart it might be worthwhile just in case of a delay, if you miss the connection in Munich it is either a two hour wait for the next EC or a fair amount of faff with multiple changes.
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@munich_irish, unfortunately I'm on a super cheap "Super Sparpreis" ticket between Stuttgart-Munich-Innsbruck so I don't think I can't do anything about moving that around.
I'll check if the train stops at jenbach and get off there instead of heading in to Innsbruck, that'll save me a bunch of time.
I've managed to get work to allow me to work the next 2 days on the train, they'd be left in the lurch with month end if I don't, and as I'm a contractor I only get paid the days I work, so the journey will be all work, so that'll help pass the time at least!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That's hardcore ski commuting @swskier. Good luck - and keep us posted 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hope it goes well. I’d love for train travel to the alps to become the norm.
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@Timmycb5, when I am going into the office in Zurich in winter, i am often passing people in full gear (inc boots) carrying skis to the train. Always makes me smile and you really can get everywhere on public transport in Switzerland.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hang in there, @swskier. Last minute adjustments are par for the course when you've got so many separate trains linked together, and it can be a bit tense if you've got tight connections. Hopefully there will be more options and more reliability in future so the train can become the norm rather than an adventure. And keep the updates coming 
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Looking forward to reading your updates. If you start getting stressed about the faff caused by the strike etc, just remember that flying recently hasn't been without its problems and this way getting your luggage to the same destination as you as the same time is within your control.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Good luck, @swskier. Trains aren't great at the moment. My daughter in law grew up in France, is a French speaker and very familiar with the trains, which they always use for preference. She did a quick work trip to France earlier this week and found the timings inconvenient because there are far fewer Eurostars than there were pre-Covid. A local French train from Arras was also delayed, and she only caught her Eurostar back by the skin of her teeth. As I was babysitting I had skin in the game and was relieved she made it!
Getting anywhere by public transport seems to be a faff and the temptation to jump in a car stronger than ever!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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First leg all good so far! Currently on my train to London which left slightly late, but will probably arrive on time, and I have a 2.5hr gap to get from Paddington to St Pancras.
I've been going back and forth with trainline all morning re my journey to Stuttgart, but I've ended up just getting a refund on my ticket for tomorrow (which is 1st class) and paid 3 times the amount for a 2nd class ticket tonight.
Hotel in Stuttgart booked, and hotel in Paris tonight not being particularly helpful with date changes so that'll cost me €71 cancellation.
Lesson for future me, book tickets with the provider, not a 3rd party seller like trainline.
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@swskier, Presumably you know about buying your RER tickets from the buffet car on the Eurostar? Saves going to a machine at the station!
Not so much of an issue as you’re staying in Paris overnight, but might make things a little smoother
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You know it makes sense.
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| swskier wrote: |
02/12/22
Paris Gare de l'Est Dep. 0655 - Stuttgart Arr. 10:04
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Double check your train is running tomorrow, quite a few are cancelled due to a strike.
Personally I look forward to the day I never have to take another train in France.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 1-12-22 12:49; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
My advice if travelling by train, avoid France.
Same for flying too.
Let's hope the return journey is smoother. |
I wouldn't do this route again for a trip to Austria, I'd go the Brussels to Munich route, probably a bit more direct as well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| swskier wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
My advice if travelling by train, avoid France.
Same for flying too.
Let's hope the return journey is smoother. |
I wouldn't do this route again for a trip to Austria, I'd go the Brussels to Munich route, probably a bit more direct as well. |
all that remains is to pass the L2
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@swskier, know very little about Trainline but what I do does not sound good. There are better ways to book train tickets, www.bahn.de for a start. There is a book and associated website https://www.europebyrail.eu/ which is very useful for all things related to rail travel, including the best way to book tickets. It is published by a couple of people who live in Berlin and clearly have spent an awful lot of time travelling around. One of them has regular articles in the Guardian describing train trips, they also publish a slightly quirky travel magazine https://www.hiddeneurope.eu/ .
Hope you manage to get enough internet to do your work!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good luck with this adventure. Sound advice on where to buy tickets. I travel a fair bit by train in Europe - most recently in Poland - and always go direct to the rail company concerned. www.sbb.ch/en has also become my new best friend for the forthcoming season!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@swskier, hope you get there OK and that the course goes well.
I also did my IASI L2 with Alpine Coaching in Hintertux.
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If you get stuck tomorrow, there is also a Nightjet train from Paris->Vienna at 18:58. Get off at Rosenheim at 6:15, then 48 mins train to Jenbach and bus/train up the valley.
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Made it to Paris no issues.
On my train to Stuttgart which includes a change at Mannheim. Unfortunately the train was 50 minutes late out of Paris, so i'll miss my connection, and now won't get to Stuttgart until 00:08. Not the end of the world, as i'll have made it.
I'll be on to the trainline, as they told me to get a refund on my ticket and buy a new one, which cost me about £80 more than my 1st class ticket I already had, when in actual fact the DB lady on the train told me I could have just travelled on my ticket for tomorrow morning.
So i'll see what I can do about getting a refund from the trainline, but my hopes aren't high.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| swskier wrote: |
I'll be on to the trainline, as they told me to get a refund on my ticket and buy a new one, which cost me about £80 more than my 1st class ticket I already had, when in actual fact the DB lady on the train told me I could have just travelled on my ticket for tomorrow morning.
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Did you have a reserved seat? I doubt the guards would let you onto the platform with the wrong ticket.
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| davidof wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
I'll be on to the trainline, as they told me to get a refund on my ticket and buy a new one, which cost me about £80 more than my 1st class ticket I already had, when in actual fact the DB lady on the train told me I could have just travelled on my ticket for tomorrow morning.
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Did you have a reserved seat? I doubt the guards would let you onto the platform with the wrong ticket. |
I had a reserved seat for this evenings train as I bought a new ticket. I got a refund on tomorrow's ticket.
I got chatting to a German guy who travelled on his ticket for tomorrow as he was told to do so by the ticket office in Gare de l'Est.
No-one checked tickets to get on the train or during the journey either. Only chat from the train staff has been for those with connections confirming what time the next train is due to the delay.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This thread is really not a good advertisement for travelling by train*. Too expensive, too much faff, too many problems with having to connect. Flying is just too cheap and much more convenient. If flying stays the norm there seems little reason to improve train links and the cycle continues. Not sure what the solution is.
*Although still sounds delightful in comparison to my 7 hours to do 70km bus journey last week!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@swskier, that is similar to my experience (keeping the ticket for a later train), but not easy to confirm when travelling. When I missed a connection in Munich, I queued for ages at the info booth to find out whether the tickets were still valid, as the route and operator of the later service were slightly different. Though if not, I would’ve asked them if they could replace it before I bought a new one. I was told it would be fine, and the conductor didn’t even query it.
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@boarder2020, when things go wrong flying it can be a lot more painful than with the train. This was a pretty complicated itinerary with lots of possible issues, it doesnt sound like using the Trainline to book non UK train tickets is a good idea either. Within many European countries such as Spain, Germany, France and Italy the train network is such that in many cases it is quicker, simpler and cheaper to take a train even for long distance trips. I have done the Munich Paris journey a couple of times with no issues at all, not sure it is quicker than flying but it is easier.
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You know it makes sense.
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https://www.seat61.com/ is a great starting point for information.
I first used Bahn.de 20-several years ago and I don't think it's failed me yet - and that included doing a "help-desk" type thing when I worked for TUI!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
This thread is really not a good advertisement for travelling by train*. Too expensive, too much faff, too many problems with having to connect. Flying is just too cheap and much more convenient. If flying stays the norm there seems little reason to improve train links and the cycle continues. Not sure what the solution is.
*Although still sounds delightful in comparison to my 7 hours to do 70km bus journey last week! |
This bit is the problem. Two ways to solve it. Make train travel cheaper and/or make air travel more expensive.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| boarder2020 wrote: |
This thread is really not a good advertisement for travelling by train*. Too expensive, too much faff, too many problems with having to connect. Flying is just too cheap and much more convenient. If flying stays the norm there seems little reason to improve train links and the cycle continues. Not sure what the solution is.
*Although still sounds delightful in comparison to my 7 hours to do 70km bus journey last week! |
This bit is the problem. Two ways to solve it. Make train travel cheaper and/or make air travel more expensive. |
Why?
If the cost to put on a plane is cheaper than putting on a train, then that is how it is.
USA has very little rail network, but lots of airports.
We need better air links in the UK with better ground setup that ring fences domestic flights from the international flights security protocols. The only advantage of a train at present is the silly bit of needing to be at the airport about 2hours before air departure.
Where you can run for a train & still make it without any checks to board!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@munich_irish yeah for intra continental travel the choo choo wins every time. It's the Eurostar bit which doubles the expense time and faff (can't just hop on 5mins before).
@Timmycb5 I'd love to know what is stopping those in charge running high speed sleeper services to all parts of Europe at heavily subsidised rates. Are there tunnel capacity issues? Surely much less so at night.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gored wrote: |
| The only advantage of a train at present is the silly bit of needing to be at the airport about 2hours before air departure. |
Plus the small matter of a gazillion time lower climate impact 
Re costs rail travel does have to manage and maintain a significantly larger amount of infrastucture.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@hd, there has been a huge expansion in night train services in the last year. Prior to that most operators sold off their sleeper stock (to OBB) and wound it down - cheap flights too much to compete with. From Zurich I can travel to Amsterdam, Berlin, Budapest, Prague, Vienna to name a few.
Many operators are ordering more stock but it takes time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@hd, indeed. I used to travel around a lot by train, for a while most often between Geneva and Heilbronn in Germany (3-4 changes).
Starting in CH I would usually book thru SBB as they were a. more efficient and b. that meant my journeys were on "single" bookings and so took care of any disruptions - including a hotel night in Bern once after a few delays (due weather).
Re sleeper services, these are being re-introduced. "Nightjet" I think they might be called?
@pleasedeletemyaccount are you being wilfully ignorant of the economics (including climate ones)?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| @hd, there has been a huge expansion in night train services in the last year. |
Yeah but through the tunnel from UK is the thrust of my query. Tunnel capacity? Surely not at night 
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@hd, do you mean trains running at night (eurostar) or night trains (sleepers like Nightjet mentioned above). I remember some story about safety checks in the tunnel at night etc but maybe its just staffing?.
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| munich_irish wrote: |
| @boarder2020, when things go wrong flying it can be a lot more painful than with the train. |
Given the number of times I've driven all over France to rescue the missus after the SNCF have left her stranded I would say it is just as painful, in France at least. The SNCF are a dreaful company who seem to be in permenant conflict with their staff, who are probably themselves living in another time.
Time Magazine claims air travel is cheap due to hidden subsidies. Ryan air used to get kick backs from regional airports, although I thought the EU had ruled against that. Rail traval is also heavily subsidised though.
Assuming full loading an air passenger emits 6x more CO2 than a rail traveller but does this also account for infrastructure?
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 2-12-22 10:28; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Refurbed Nightjets are supposed to be coming on line in the new year: https://www.nightjet.com/en/komfortkategorien/nightjet-neue-generation
I'm hoping that the reservation system will be improved as well with the new configurations – last time I checked, if we travelled as a couple, we would end up in separate compartments which did put me off a bit.
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@Nadenoodlee full throttle sleeper services yes
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FAQ
