 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm going skiing for the first time in the near future, and I'd like to define(temper!) my expectations of what I might be able to do by the end of the holiday(4 days of skiing). I've snowboarded before, and by the end of my first snowboarding trip, I was fairly decent, and able to tackle blacks and do some small park jumps(with varying levels of success!). I felt like I could try most things, and that my technique and control on the board was at a point where I wasn't having to really concentrate on just staying in control, I could focus on the specific run/task I was doing.
How much can you really achieve in 4 days of skiing? Is it realistic to be making parallel, carved turns, being in relative control of what you're doing on steeper inclines, trying some blacks and maybe even some small jumps? I am fairly athletic, and have played many different sports, I'm usually pretty good at picking things up quickly. From watching a lot of instructional videos the last few weeks, it seems like skiing is similar to ice skating in some ways, in terms of using pressures and your body weight at angles to gain grip and create speed/stability in turning, does experience in one translate well to the other? Is it realistic for me to expect a similar experience to my first snowboarding trip?
I mainly just want to understand if I will be getting out of the pizza/french fry phase by the end of the week, as I've built up large aspirations in my head that may be completely ridiculous in reality  , any tips/words of wisdom welcome!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Get lessons.
You said that you could "tackle" blacks at the end of the first boarding trip. Thats a bit of a loaded one - might want to tell us where that was and what tackling it means (sideslipping the whole way, or Shaun White?).
Some black runs are fine, depending on the conditions and time of day, some are horrible even for a fairly decent skiier esp if icy.
Get yourself good professional lessons every day and dont go for "blacks" as a challenge.
Work on what the instructor tells you, ski in a controlled way and look to be even better on the next trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What type of lessons are you having? Group lesson may hold you back.
Our friends teenage daughter was skiiing all over the mountain with us in a week as she picked things up really quickly, but also the conditions was really good - while her mum didnt leave the bunny slope!
Maybe give an indoor fridge our outdoor dry-slope a try if there is one close by. Will give you an idea of where you are.
Ignore slope colour. Everyone will tell you they have been on blues that should be reds & reds that should be blues or blacks & blacks that really a red. There isnt really a standard of grading a piste. Depends on many things. Steepness, width, shading, shaprness of turns, etc.
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This is a "How long is a piece of string" question. How good you will be after 4 days will depend on the likes of:
- How fit you are
- How naturally athletic you are
- How good the instructor is/how fluent their English is
- How many lessons you take/how much practice you do
- Whether you are in a class or having Private lessons
- What the weather is like
- What the quality of snow is like
- The quality and suitability of the hired skis and boots
I have seen the whole spectrum from "I can't believe how good they have become in just a few days"; to "They have barely improved at all and it will be a real struggle to get any good".
It sounds to me like you should pick it up fairly quickly and will be familiar with the mountains/lifts etc as this side won't be new to you.
I have never Snowboarded - but from those who I know who learned both, I would say that while there are some crossover skills, they are quite different. IMV. Skiing is easier to start with but harder to get very proficient at. Snowboarding is to some degree the other way around.
IMO. Take your time, build your confidence and don't do difficult stuff badly just to say you managed to get down it.
Some resorts have free beginner lifts, so check this out before buying the full thing.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 26-12-22 22:17; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is it realistic to be making parallel, carved turns,
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No
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trying some blacks and maybe even some small jumps?
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Certainly nothing to stop you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This ^ 100%. (Edit - Old Fartbag’s post)
4 days isn’t hugely long but, as suggested, if you’re familiar with the mountain set-up (lifts, piste maps etc), it’s certainly feasible to be parallel skiing on varied terrain. Carving fluidly down the mountain is, IMO, unlikely.
What I think is critical, though, to maximise your experience and progression in a relatively short period, is to take lessons and, ideally, one to one. At the least, you should be able to get the correct basics and provide a platform from which to progress. Anything else is likely to leave you with some ingrained, bad habits that then have to be unlearned.
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I probably didn't add enough info to the OP, but of course I'm very aware that nobody can give me a complete answer to the question, I'm moreso just trying to understand the spectrum of possibilities. I intend on getting lessons on the first morning, but it would be with some mates. I also completely understand that slope ratings aren't always accurate, I was merely trying to give an idea that I was able to tackle something considered a black by a resort(not side sliding down it!), to explain that I had a decent level of progression from the first day. I snowboarded in Tignes on my first trip, will be heading to Alpe D'Huez for skiing(I was there before for a snowboarding trip). Thanks for the responses so far!
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 26-12-22 13:10; edited 1 time in total
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Reminds me of an old Buddhist joke, the student says to the master "How long do I need to meditate until I achieve stillness of mind?" and the master replies, "Maybe five years." The student says, "But I am very dedicated and will try very hard, how long then?" to which the master replies, "In that case, maybe ten years."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Blacky, unless your mates are qualified instructors, I’d say your spectrum of possibilities will narrow significantly.
Well-meaning advice, even from good skiers, is likely to maybe get you down the mountain but, almost certainly, to fail in terms leaving you with a solid skill platform from which to advance.
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Returning how without an injury would be a good result.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Cacciatore wrote: |
@Blacky, unless your mates are qualified instructors, I’d say your spectrum of possibilities will narrow significantly.
Well-meaning advice, even from good skiers, is likely to maybe get you down the mountain but, almost certainly, to fail in terms leaving you with a solid skill platform from which to advance. |
Haha don't worry, I meant with my mates as in a group lesson, rather than from them!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Blacky, many people feel that they are carving when 80% of their turn is still being skidded. I would be very surprised if you could make a clean carve after 4 days but of course there will be some people with incredible natural ability who can. Also it is far easier to learn to carve on very gentle slopes which your mates presumably tour mates won't want to be spending all their time on these slopes
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You know it makes sense.
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Are you only interested in getting around the mountain in any shape or form, so you can ski & goof around with mates? Or do you want technique?
Skiing is usually easier to learn than snowboarding, but certainly harder to master.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Blacky wrote: |
| intend on getting lessons on the first morning, but it would be with some mates. |
If you have expectations of maximizing your potential, that is unlikely to do it.
I would suggest Private lessons every morning for 3 days and going with your mates in the afternoon. If your mates give advice that's different to your instructor, ignore them. If they look to take you down something harder than what you have currently done, don't agree - as the likelihood is it will undermine the confidence you have built up....and skiing is all about confidence.
The last day can be kept for skiing together, unless you feel that 4 days of lessons will be of significant benefit....which itself will depend on how good the Instructor is and how quickly you are progressing.
Edit. Ignore the above post as you have now clarified.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Gored wrote: |
Are you only interested in getting around the mountain in any shape or form, so you can ski & goof around with mates? Or do you want technique?
Skiing is usually easier to learn than snowboarding, but certainly harder to master. |
I definitely want a base of good technique, I'm very interested in being as efficient as possible on skis, and generally I really enjoy the technical aspects of learning a new sport. I will be on a stag though, so I will be going with the crowd to the extent that is necessary!
| pam w wrote: |
My son, a decent snowboarder and v good skier, was surprised at how fast one of his mates learned to snowboard. He was athletic and courageous. No lessons (and, to be honest, some French snowboard instructors aren't that good) Just threw himself down stuff and coped, though also bashed himself around quite a bit. Your athleticism will certainly help a great deal but it's a very different learning curve. On skis being courageous and strong might even be a drawback. Muscling yourself round the turns is not the way to go. An athletic skier who listens to his instructors can learn with little or no falling over. It's extremely annoying for those of us who have been learning for years and still can't carve a full turn. 
We are all rather obsessed about lessons on Snowheads - lots of people get on pretty well without. Do let us know how you get on - and yes, being able to ice skate should make a big difference. One lad in a group we met on holiday was an ice hockey player and was sheer brilliance on blades. He had such good "turnout" and mobility that he could ski down an easy blue slope with his blades in a perfectly straight line. Astonishing. |
I do intend on getting a morning lesson on the first day at least, but it's good to hear that there is at least some potential for skill transfer from things I have experience in!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Blacky,
If you are on a stag party, techniques goes out the window after the 2nd or 3rd bar
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Blacky, If you are on a Stag Weekend, I can understand that skiing is not really the priority. I take it that having a laugh together in lessons is part of it - otherwise it might make more sense to Snowboard on this trip and learn to ski another time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I would agree with @Old Fartbag. You will find it difficult to schedule any lessons, and impossible to pick and choose pistes where you can embed the techniques you have just learned.
I think those who get most from a four-day intro to skiing will be spending almost all their time on blue slopes, consolidating good technique and learning to manage the steeper sections (including the occasional red) without technique falling apart.
This time it is about having fun with mates and a good laugh, stick to an activity you know.
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Group lessons: Follow me (and everybody else), try and copy my (exagerated) movements for half a day
1 to 1 lessons: not bad but how did that feel. try thinking about and trying this more, how does that feel now? After an hour or so try and concentrate on that with your mates, see you tomorrow and lets see how that has improved.
If you are fit talented and able group lesson will probably hold you back going at the pace of the weaker members or to a fixed script.
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If you are fit talented and able group lesson will probably hold you back
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Agree with that. Best learner we ever had to stay in our place was not only skiing for the first time, but seeing snow for the first time. He dropped out of lessons after the first two days and "picked up" things we were practising, like turning both directions on the same foot, with very annoying alacrity. But a word of warning - not all "one to one" lessons be as described above. I had one with an ESF instructor who decided we were going to use the snowy track of a closed drag lift as a makeshift half-pipe and proceeded to show me how very clever he was at it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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1. Have dry ski slope lessons before you go.
2. Have private lessons on the trip. Ask on here for recommended schools.
Giving you the best investment you’ll ever make in skiing, some technique and genuine confidence from the beginning of your journey.
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Have 4 days of morning lessons.
Be safe.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I mainly just want to understand if I will be getting out of the pizza/french fry phase by the end of the week
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You will be onto better foods very quickly. Tarteflette is worth it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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4 days of lessons with a high standard of instructor should get you off the nursery slopes.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
I have never Snowboarded - but from those who I know who learned both, I would say that while there are some crossover skills, they are quite different. IMV. |
At a more advanced level there are a lot more similarities than you might think. The physics is fundamentally the same, so anyone who's got a good understanding of how the board works, and why they do what they do to make it turn/carve/grip/slide will be able to apply the same rules to two planks.
Using the same sorts of observation and analysis as for skiing, I have been able to coach some quite good snowboarders to a higher level (when out skiing with mates, that is, not on a professional basis) despite not being a snowboard instructor and not having boarded since 20+ years ago, and then only very much as an improving beginner. As with 90% of skiers having problems, it's nearly always a case of "weight too far back, it's always the weight too far back".
Having said that, even someone who's developed well in their first week of boarding is unlikely to have gained that level of understanding, so the crossover may not be quite so significant.
As for the OP's question, yes, @Old Fartbag has pretty much got it bang on. It depends.
In my own teaching experience, my hope would be that in a week, with half days of 1 to 1 lessons and practice every afternoon, plus a good level of enthusiasm, athleticism and fitness, an adult learner should be able to be turning parallel most of the time, perhaps reverting to the plough/parallel turn on steeper sections. Consistent clean carving is probably too much to expect, but on a wide gentle-ish slope they should be able to hold the edge for long round turns even if they include a bit of rotation at the transition point.
But yeah, some have exceeded this, other not quite got that far in the time, so the important thing is to remember to have fun and not focus on a specific objective. There will be plenty of time for that later in your skiing progression.
Edit: And don't either consider that colour gradings of runs you can do are in any way significant. I could take you on some bits of blue runs (the easiest grading in the Swiss system) which would challenge many a 3-week skier, and some blacks that they would find easy in some conditions. Someone saying "I can ski most black runs" is a clear sign to the instructor that they're still at quite an early stage of their development.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Blacky, Like everyone has said, depends on a lot of things, but it's not impossible to be skiing all over the place in a week.
We took one of our teenage son's friends with us a couple of times. He boarded the first week, and had been on 2 school trips boarding. On the second week that he came with us, he decided after day 1 that he wanted to ski with the rest of us, rather than board. Our hearts sank - he had had one lesson with me on a dry slope, barely introduced to the idea of turning. Next day he did the green run twice, then a blue run. After lunch he came down a red with us, with a few wiggles off the side into fresher snow, and then he followed our kids into the park for the rest of the afternoon. Rest of the week he just followed us all over the mountain and coped pretty well. I guess it helped that he was a teenage boy who thought he was invincible, and no-one had told him he couldn't do it, so he just did it!
Not sure what anyone would have thought of his technique, though - I turn my instructor's head off when I go on family ski trips.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My son at 6 was going down a red run by the end of the first day.
My husband at 43 was still on the nursery slope at the end of the third day.
So probably somewhere in between?!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| ... At a more advanced level there are a lot more similarities [between skiing and snowboarding] than you might think. The physics is fundamentally the same, so anyone who's got a good understanding of how the board works, and why they do what they do to make it turn/carve/grip/slide will be able to apply the same rules to two planks. ... |
This. I don't know any serious snowboarders or skiers who can't also do the other thing at a good level.
Just about anyone ought to be able to get down black runs in a day; it takes a lot longer to work out why that's the wrong metric.
Beginner expectations? Put in about a hundred days in say five years or less and you'll probably be able to ski. Fewer days or lower frequency and you've broadly zero chance of learning. It's more like learning the piano than learning to drive. After a thousand days you'll no longer be able to tell the difference between grades of run, they're all the same, the main difference is how fast you're allowed to ride.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, I survived! I intended on getting a lesson on a dry slope before going, but never did it in the end. Same with booking a lesson for the first day, got caught up in staying with my mates, so I just said feck it. The fact that it was a stag and we were well oiled most of the time didn't help in terms of making sensible decisions 
I was skiing some sort of parallel after a couple of runs on the kid's slope, mainly greens and blues after that. I had a number of falls over the first few days, mainly due to my inside ski not behaving as I wanted it to(and being on blue runs I probably had no business being on). Started figuring it out to some degree on the third day and was pretty comfortable with skidded turns, and feeling an element of carving(or at least some use of the inside edge of the ski) in the turns by the 4th and last day. Felt like an extra day would have been great for that next level of progression, but what can you do!
Not getting a lesson obviously didn't help me, I really struggled with turning on one side and catching my inside ski, which I'm sure I would have learned faster from a qualified instructor, it made some of the more narrow switchback blues with steep cliffs off the side a real ordeal. It's amazing how a couple of falls can momentarily wipe your brain of everything you've learned, but happily I got down each run in the end, and only had a few silly falls on the last few days(basically stationary!).
I had more trouble with the slow manoeuvres than when at speed, again more than likely because I never really learned the basics properly. I also learned how to 'jump' turn(no idea of the proper name) when faced with a horrific mogul field on the final day, which would have been perfect for the switchbacks I had issues with, so it was a pity I didn't figure that out sooner.
I managed to go through the beginner park a few times on the last day and got about 1ft of air off a jump, so box ticked there, and I was able to stick with my non-beginner mates for most of the trip to some degree, so all in all a roaring success. I will definitely get a private lesson booked for the first half day of my next trip, hopefully that will be next year, as I definitely have the bug now.
Thanks for all the tips and info, and apologies for listening to very little of it 
Video of me on the last morning(in the orange): https://streamable.com/8p36h9
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Blacky, thanks for reporting back. To be honest, that video doesn’t look so bad - fair play to you! I’ve seen a lot worse skiers than that who’ve skied a lot more!! Sounds like you had a blast and welcome to both the skiing community and a lifetime (hopefully) of fun and progression 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sounds like you had a blast and welcome to both the skiing community and a lifetime (hopefully) of fun and progression
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Hear hear. Well done on surviving unscathed and with sense of humour intact!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Cacciatore, @pam w, hear hear!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think surviving a stag do skip trip with ligaments still attached is impressive!
Out of interest where was that, the pistes looked so crowded!
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@Blacky, congratulations on surviving!
I can’t remember how long it took me before I wasn’t wary of catching one of my skis. It was more than a week, but not something I have thought of for quite a while, so that will go with more experience.
IMO almost everyone has a stronger side to turn on, at least to begin with, so again with more practice that will come.
And as for speed, it’s like riding a bike, everything is easier with a bit more speed. I can still hear my French instructors voice in my mind when I’m holding a carve in the fall line for as long as possible “accept ze speed!”.
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Thanks all! I was in Alpe D'Huez, the last day(from the video) was Saturday, so weekend + school holidays meant it was pretty hectic. The mogul field at the start of the couloir run was like a scene from Saving Private Ryan that day, it was harder to navigate the bodies than the moguls It's 7 degrees there now, so delighted we went last week, it was already melting pretty badly by the end of our trip.
I definitely had too much weight on my inside ski the first few days, which lead to a lot of catching, it's much harder to shift your weight to the outside ski when going slow! Camber on the slope also caught me out a good few times.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I completely missed this thread back in December. @Blacky, thanks for reporting back and making this a entertaining read.
Getting back in one piece with all the bone and ligament attached, without lesson and well oiled most of the time notwithstanding, is quite an achievement! I’ve taught beginners for a bit. I’d say it’s a bit of a shame you didn’t get to take any lesson at all. With your skating background, and the bits of boarding, you could have progressed quite a lot more in 4 days. That said, it may or may not change the fun factor at that level. As long as you were hanging with your mates, that’s all it matters in a stag do.
In hindsight, would you say you’d had more fun had you stick with boarding? Or you’re the kind who likes to try new things every time?
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| abc wrote: |
I completely missed this thread back in December. @Blacky, thanks for reporting back and making this a entertaining read.
Getting back in one piece with all the bone and ligament attached, without lesson and well oiled most of the time notwithstanding, is quite an achievement! I’ve taught beginners for a bit. I’d say it’s a bit of a shame you didn’t get to take any lesson at all. With your skating background, and the bits of boarding, you could have progressed quite a lot more in 4 days. That said, it may or may not change the fun factor at that level. As long as you were hanging with your mates, that’s all it matters in a stag do.
In hindsight, would you say you’d had more fun had you stick with boarding? Or you’re the kind who likes to try new things every time? |
I think doing a bit of everything as a kid definitely helped, there was another complete beginner with us, and he did a 2 hour lesson on the first morning, and was still snowploughing his way down the green slopes on the last day. He was never on a skateboard/bike/whatever else when we were younger, and really struggled with the balance aspect of it all.
re: snowboarding, I'm glad I changed it up, I only went with the snowboard years ago when we went a couple of times as 20 somethings as that's what everyone was doing(group of skateboarders), I definitely wanted to move to skis, and will be sticking with it!
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FAQ
