 Poster: A snowHead
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Seeing this article this morning...
Holiday rep, 23, who died after being hit by a skier during a season in the French Alps did not seek medical help because of the cost involved, inquest hears
... and reading the details of this poor young lady's accident (the gist appears to be that she fell and another skier's ski then struck her helmet and broke through it) made me think back to when I started snowboarding and went to get my first helmet. Coming from the world of motorcycles I was surprised at how flimsy the ski helmets appeared to be, and that there was no way of telling a safer helmet from a less safe one.
When my children started skiing I hunted high and low for a helmet that I felt offered the right kind of protection and ended up settling for Head race helmets, which seemed to be head and shoulders (ho hum) over anything else I could find in terms of robustness and build quality. Now of course they might not have actually been any safer, but I was reassured by their heft and similarity in construction to a motorcycle helmet. And here's the crux: with no official safety rating system I had no way (besides my subjective opinion) to ensure that I purchased the safest helmet I could. That doesn't seem right to me, and given what's potentially at stake a star rating (like SHARP's rating for motorcycle helmets) would give consumers much need information when making such an important purchase.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I thought there were two standards, essentially one without covering the ears and one with, more designed for racers?
To the case of the rep, I thought most reputable tour operators provided insurance as part of the employment package?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stevew wrote: |
I thought there were two standards, essentially one without covering the ears and one with, more designed for racers?
To the case of the rep, I thought most reputable tour operators provided insurance as part of the employment package? |
Regarding employer's insurance, I don't know. Do you have any more info on the helmet standards?
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I thought there was now a Euro categorisation of ski helmets into class A or B? Do helmets not need to conform to one of these?
In any event, as a long-time motorcyclist I've always been very cautious about the level of protection offered from some cycle and ski helmets, and the number of injuries and indeed fatalities like this one should serve to warn that while they may offer some protection they're far from an assurance that had injuries won't be sustained in a collision.
I would say that I don't normally wear a helmet when cycling or skiing except when I'm in Ski School uniform (I don't think there's an official rule here, although others I've worked with do have one, but I've never seen any of our instructors not wearing one) and at least a part of my rationale is that I don't think they're going to protect me so I want to ensure I take every precaution to avoid any accident. Perhaps not totally logical, I realise 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ha. There is a sort of perverse logic to it I guess - my equivalent thought is 'how many car accidents would there be if every car had a 2 foot spike sticking out of the steering wheel and resting against the driver's forehead?'
Do you have any information on the Euro classes A and B? I cannot find anything.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Cheers for that.
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When I was training to be a riding instructor we had to keep abreast of current British Kite Mark numbers for riding helmets, denoting approved safety levels. Is there a kite mark or CE standard mark for ski helmets? Is there anywhere that says what the current safety mark is?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Reading the BS document linked by Scarlet, it would seem to be only a very short step from the testing that's mandated to give a safety rating based on that testing. I wonder why they don't do it? Perhaps nobody has ever asked?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It would seem not. Maybe they think it's sufficient?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Oblos, have heads, skiing or snow changed materially since 2007?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Oblos, have heads, skiing or snow changed materially since 2007? |
Tut.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FIS reviewed race helmets in 2013 and raised the drop test to 6.8m/s over the 5.48m/s CEN1077 one.
On the face of it the enhanced FIS CH2013 rating test for a helmet at 6.8m/s looks only marginal over the CEN1077 one of 5.48m/s but the additional 25% (ish) would actually be close on doubleing the amount of energy the helmet needs to cope with.
say the head and helmet weighs 5kg, at a speed of 5.48m/s the impact would generate about 75 Joules of energy the helmet needs to deal with, at 6.8m/s that goes up to 115 Joules. theres some other minor variables in play too but in a static test like the CEN and FIS ones, their negligable.
Calculator link here...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Very interesting, thank you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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AFAIK ski helmets are similar to cycle helmets.
They provide relatively minimal protection because we can't put significant protection against impacts into a limited space. (n.b. ski helmets are probably better than cycle helmets (not trying to minimise insulation/maximise cooling) but even motorbike helmets are limited - I expect a significant chunk of this forum have crashed on skis at 2-3x the speed motorcycle helmets are usually tested at!)
Great for racers who occasionally make slight errors and hit flexible race poles head first - The helmet takes the impact limiting distraction so they can continue (mostly) under control rather than crashing at 100mph because of the 'shock'/distraction from impact. Almost useless for a collision with another skier; Limited but some benefit in falls.
Or mountain bikers vs road cycling (I would regard 'proper' mountain bikers (i.e. riding technical trails) not using helmets as idiots; But for an experienced cyclist on a hard surface the main risk is car collisions, where impact energy massively exceeds protection - we still have tons of research going into this because every study gives different results and population level data shows no correlation to helmet wearing that can't be explained by other factors, but various groups want to prove helmets work, because that allows them to push cycle helmet usage as a solution rather than infrastructure changes that invariably take space away from cars and cost the government money...).
It is still worth wearing a ski helmet; but that is because it can convert a minor injury with nasty bleeds (and a bloodwagon off the mountain to get checked) into a dented helmet and continued days skiing, possibly with stop at store for replacement); Chances are most fatal injuries will be fatal regardless of helmet (same for serious).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd be interested in seeing some data. I know it's hard here to get away from personal anecdotes with far too many variables, but having struck my head on the ground at over 100mph motorcycling when crashing at Donington Park, over 50mph snowboarding crashing on an icy piste (both with a helmet) and falling off a bicycle at not much more than walking pace without a helmet, I'm convinced that (good quality) helmets work.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thank you.
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