 Poster: A snowHead
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Not skiied in France before so looking to go there for Jan '23 with wife.
Here's the rough requirements:
Both competent on piste to tackle anything, so challenging/varied on-piste options (important requirement)
Keen skiers, so an extensive ski area (important requirement)
Haven't tried off piste, so looking for opportunities to try this
Not fussed for apres, it's about the skiing for us
Self catered accommodation, with convenient access to groceries
Low to mid budget
Flight to Geneva or Lyon
We'll hire a car for convenient transfer, also enjoyed using car previously to access other parts of resort swiftly
Resort would need to be practical for car access/parking
From my limited research, Les Arcs seemed ok.
Tignes/VdI as well but this is a further transfer a more expensive.
Very likely to be booking through Sunweb, who do good accomm + lift pass deals. Would like to come within £1,200 for both of us.
Hopefully you guys can give me some more suggestions, thanks!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 29-06-22 10:04; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe Flaine or somewhere else in the Grand Massif. Plenty of skiing and close to Geneva. Hire car will cost you ££££, and you don't need one there anyway, so get cheap transfer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@viciousvulture, Most of the large French resorts will fit your bill and I may suggest that you add to your condidate list La Plagne and Les Menuires, both like Les Arcs are not trendy or fashionable so offer great skiing at a great price. You may also need to look a bit more carefully where in the resort you plan to stay, for example, Arc1600 is usually less expensive than Arc1950. A 7 day (assuming that is how long you want to stay for) mid January let in Arc1600 should cost around 3-400€, add in lift passes at 300€ each and you will be well within budget for just accomodation and lift passes.
I would advise against hiring a car. Though it would give an easy transfer it will be an expensive option. Remeber than in most resorts you will have to pay around 100€ for parking and it will be of no use whatsoever once you are in the resort. Navettes offer an easy way to get around as do ski lifts. The car will probably be slower. For example the funicular from Arc1600 to Bourg st Maurice takes 7 minutes. It is a 20 minute drive. From Geneva or Lyon airport there are a number of transfer companies who offer coach transfers and of course there is the train which is what I use if not driving from the UK.
I would say all the Tarrentaise resorts offer challenging and varied on piste skiing and with Compagnie des Guides good potential for off piste skiing. Many of the black pistes will be left unbashed so offer much more challenge and variety than say Italian skiing.
All the resorts will have adequate in resort grocery shops, often only a short walk away from the accommodation. Many SNowheads complain that the resort shops are expensive, but I find on a average day's shopping it is rarely more than 5-10€ more than shopping in the valley. Having said that I do go down to Bourg st Maurice sometimes to avail myself of the huge variety of produce in the Super U there and, of course, end up spending a lot more as I buy a kilo of langustine and some fine wine to accompany it.
My simple suggestion would be: rent a flat in Arc1600, fly to Geneva or Lyon, get the train to Bourg st Maurice, and the funicular up to the resort. I would also reccomend buyin a lift pass for the Les Arcs area, rather than for Paradiski.
BTW where have you skied in the past?
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@viciousvulture,
3Valleys, Paradiski, Tignes/Val D'Isere - all close to each other.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Les Menuires fits the bill for you. Accommodation at lots of price points, apres exists but is cheap and cheerful, the usual min-supermarkets and delicatessens. Plus the main thing access to all the 3 Vallees. Les Menuires has excellent and easy access to everything except maybe Courcheval, plus it's "own" mountain in La Masse which is off the circuit so doesn't tend to get crowded.
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Portes du Soleil, probably either Morzine (valley village so generally cheaper) or Avoriaz (mountain top so ski out/in but more expensive) also worth checking out. You might even find the hire car's unnecessary (shared minibus transfers were only €80pp return last year and 90% of the domain is accessible on skis).
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| johnE wrote: |
| @viciousvultureBTW where have you skied in the past? |
...thanks for all the info above, really useful!
We've been on two trips previously. First to Solden and then Madonna di Campiglio. They were both fantastic but I'd say we definitely skiied the place with a day or so to spare. MdC also didn't have a large vert run which I enjoyed in Solden.
MdC had ski in/ski out (almost) which was cool, but even there we took the car out a few times just to go to different bits.
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@viciousvulture,
If you are 100% on hiring a car consider staying in Bourg st Maurice - easy (caveat - not so easy on Saturdays/after snow/if Parisian drivers around) driving to all the Tarentaise resorts (St Foy, La Rosiere/La Thuile plus the big three I mentioned above).
After 2 ski trips you wouldn't ski out any of the big three in a week's skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnE, catching the train from Lyon
I've often wondered why the T/O's don't fly in to Lyon and charter a train if that's a possibility. It would miss all the traffic on the bad weeks and have coaches waiting at Moutiers for 3V's and at Bourg for EK and Les Arcs and La plangne
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No need to hire a car if you stay at 3v or Espace Killy. January for a week for 2 self catering could cost about that before you add in lift pass and ski hire, so not much room for parking costs for a hire car for a week let alone the hire car costs.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| Portes du Soleil, probably either Morzine (valley village so generally cheaper) or Avoriaz (mountain top so ski out/in but more expensive) also worth checking out. You might even find the hire car's unnecessary (shared minibus transfers were only €80pp return last year and 90% of the domain is accessible on skis). |
I'd pick Morzine, but probably worth adding Chatel to that list also, as it's likely even cheaper than Morzine.
@viciousvulture, you mention Tignes/Val D being more expensive, but I think you'll find Tignes pretty comparable to Les Arcs for an apartment.
This apartment for example is £453 for a week mid January, which with a couple of lift passes on top brings you inside your £1200 budget.
https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/46761405?adults=2&check_in=2023-01-14&check_out=2023-01-21&previous_page_section_name=1000&federated_search_id=99c478d7-5adc-4751-97fc-6c95fa60853d
Again, like everyone else, i'd stay clear of car hire for economy reasons, unless prices miraculously come down over the next 6 months. There's train and share transfer options available.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@swskier, whereas a slightly larger studio in Arc 1600 would cost 311€.
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If you're buying your own flights and transfer/hire car, it's likely to be much cheaper to get a proper package.
E.g. Crystal Ski offer Val d'Isere for £600pp self-catering in Jan, including flights and coach transfer.
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You know it makes sense.
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[quote="viciousvulture"]
Flight from Geneva or Lyon/quote]
TBH I doubt it's worth getting a flight, those two airports are about as close to the French skiing as any others you could fly to.
Unless you're planning on the pyrenees? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| HilbertSpace wrote: |
If you're buying your own flights and transfer/hire car, it's likely to be much cheaper to get a proper package.
E.g. Crystal Ski offer Val d'Isere for £600pp self-catering in Jan, including flights and coach transfer. |
Thanks for the tip on Crystal Ski. Sometimes you get some daft flight times or distant airports. But they have Luton to Geneva flights which is what we were considering anyway.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="viciousvulture"]
Flight from Geneva or Lyon/quote]
TBH I doubt it's worth getting a flight, those two airports are about as close to the French skiing as any others you could fly to.
Unless you're planning on the pyrenees?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
TBH I doubt it's worth getting a flight, those two airports are about as close to the French skiing as any others you could fly to
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They could fly from Geneva to Courchevel, or perhaps helicopter transfer to Val d'Isrere
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@TheGeneralist, Maybe they meant to write "flight to Geneva or Lyon".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If going January flights and apartments will be cheap as chips.
Book flights (when released), book apartment (whenever you feel like it), book transfer.
As others say ditch the car idea, you don't need it and if it's snowy could be more trouble than it's worth.
One thing I will say is January is proper winter so can be bleak. For that reason I would stay somewhere like Les Coches or La Tania. Personally I wouldn't go to Tigne/Val D'Isere. Longer drive in, no real skiing below the treeline and just doesn't really gain anything for you. Disagree with JohnE buy a full pass and explore both sides. Massive mileage and variety to be had in Paradiski and the 3V's. And in January will be no lift queues.
You don't need Sunweb as middlemen. Just get flights from the airline direct and accommodation through tourist office/agency. Unless of course you can get it cheaper - which is possible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not as expert on this stuff as most of the above posters as I'm basically a blow in - from Australia.
I visited both Les Arcs and Tignes in March just gone. One week in each hill. I can confirm the train to Bourg Saint Maurice is easy - as is the ride up the hill on the funicular. I wouldn't both with a car.
I found Les Arcs and Tignes accommodation to be almost identical in price for neat but relatively modest self catering apartments. We stayed in 1800 and Val Claret respectively. We found restaurant/on mountain costs to be a touch more expensive in Tignes compared to Les Arcs.
It would extremely difficult to have anything but a fantastic time at either hill. I would go with Les Arcs. Firstly the access via funicular from Bourg makes access a touch easier and Les Arcs has more tree cover for storm/low visibility days that are a good chance in January.
We'll be in Arc 1800 for most of January. We plan on having a few days out to La Rosiere/La thuile, St Foy and Tignes. There are buses to and from Bourg to those resorts. If staying in Les Arcs a day trip to Italy for some skiing and a nice lunch will be easy. Only 15 minutes on the bus.
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If you are on a budget I would cross off tignes and Val d’isere as the lift pass and all other costs will be more.
Flaine would be a good option.
Alternatively stay in Val cenis and get the Eskimo pass which allows you to ski in several resorts.
Serre chevalier might be good. I haven’t been there in winter but it seems a decent and varied ski area.
I like Montgenevre and it is linked to the extensive Milky Way if you get the galaxy pass. It is a bit of a trek from Montgenevre to sestriere but you could use your hire car on the days you wanted to ski the Italian side.
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Southern resorts
Fly in to Nice
Then Auron or Isola?
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Car hire isn't as expensive as you may think. It's about £200 for a week from Lyon Airport. I should think transfers for two, either trains or buses would amount to as much?
There is potential parking costs as some have pointed to though.
I was comparing Crystal Ski with Sunweb. For a week at Résidence La Cime des Arcs Jan 14-21:
Sunweb £1,204 inc Paradiski pass
Crystal £1,582 inc flights + transfer
The skipass is 345 Euros pp, those flights are just over £100 pp, and I'm assuming transfer is around £100 pp.
That would mean the effective accommodation charge is £600 vs almost £1,200! Am I missing something?!
But anyway, I think I'm digressing. The skiing is the main thing, having a resort which offers enough ski and more importantly, challenge.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
There is potential parking costs as some have pointed to though.
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Remember the 40€ in tolls and fuel each way as well the parking so the total cost will be closer to 400€. Whereas the train from Lyon to Bourg st Maurice will be about £50 return each. But it will be less conveinient and need more planning. As with a lot of these things conveinence comes at a price.
£600 in Les Arcs in January should get you a very nice apartment for two people. However, as myself and others have pointed out you can get it a lot cheeper if you source it yourself (and if they do it this year, the early purchase discount on the lift pass). Remember that with Crystal you are also paying for a rep to come around and try and sell you things.
Compared to Soelden you will find almost all the resorts mentioned have some very challenging piste skiing. My recollection of Soelden is that there were no moguls at all and nothing very steep.
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| johnE wrote: |
£600 in Les Arcs in January should get you a very nice apartment for two people. However, as myself and others have pointed out you can get it a lot cheeper if you source it yourself (and if they do it this year, the early purchase discount on the lift pass). Remember that with Crystal you are also paying for a rep to come around and try and sell you things.
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Where do you recommend for sourcing accommodation please?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've used www.vrbo.com for summer trips and worked for last Feb's ski trip too.
With any of the direct rental sites you need to get you Magnum PI hat on and try to match up the description to the photos (especially beds to rooms - though less of an issue if just looking for a place for two) and to work out exactly where the apartment is (to ensure "200m from the lifts" is travel distance, not as the crow flies across a ravine that's 1km to walk around). That might sound like extra effort but the truth is it's something you just can't do booking a package so are just trusting the description.
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@johnE, yes, but some, like Chamonix's, are rubbish!
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You know it makes sense.
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@viciousvulture, either use the tourist information websites - most have accommodation searches and/or contact agencies like this https://www.gsi-immobilier.com/
If struggling with the search/website they will have email addresses or telephone numbers - they mostly speak English.
Some tourist searches/lists have direct owner contacts. I have done repeat bookings at Oz-en-Oisan (ADH), Les Menuires direct with owners. So if you want to go either of those I can dig those out. Former is a while ago but the latter have 3 apartments and we stayed there in April.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| viciousvulture wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
£600 in Les Arcs in January should get you a very nice apartment for two people. However, as myself and others have pointed out you can get it a lot cheeper if you source it yourself (and if they do it this year, the early purchase discount on the lift pass). Remember that with Crystal you are also paying for a rep to come around and try and sell you things.
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Where do you recommend for sourcing accommodation please? |
When you've chosen your resort, or narrowed the choice down:-
The relevant resort thread on Snowheads 'Snow Reports' forum.
Facebook - eg 'Tignes Seasonnaires' group.
Resort tourist office.
Directly - eg tignes-spirit.com, chaletchardons.com, thetigneschaletcompany.com
Tignes orientated, but you know what you know. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mjit wrote: |
I've used www.vrbo.com for summer trips and worked for last Feb's ski trip too.
With any of the direct rental sites you need to get you Magnum PI hat on and try to match up the description to the photos (especially beds to rooms - though less of an issue if just looking for a place for two) and to work out exactly where the apartment is (to ensure "200m from the lifts" is travel distance, not as the crow flies across a ravine that's 1km to walk around). That might sound like extra effort but the truth is it's something you just can't do booking a package so are just trusting the description. |
Absolutely right. I've always stayed away from packages in the past (non-ski) and much rather have full control.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| johnE wrote: |
| Compared to Soelden you will find almost all the resorts mentioned have some very challenging piste skiing. My recollection of Soelden is that there were no moguls at all and nothing very steep. |
That's great to hear! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Difference in transfer time between Les Arcs and Tignes is minimal. If you were staying in Arc 1950 / 2000 it might even be quicker to drive to Tignes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@stevomcd, You are right, what difference does an extra 10 or 15 minutes of drive make when you have spent the whole day travelling. The variations in traffic conditions and finding somewhere to park could easily swamp that. I think most people thinking about the different journey times are people driving mid week and/or arriving very late for a weekend's skiing. When arriving late on a Saturday night to ski in La Rossiere last January I was suprised how much longer the journey from Bourg st Maurice took as opposed to that to Arc 1600. It felt like twice as long. It probably was - 30 minutes as opposed to 15-20. But in terms of the overall journey time it was less than the amount of time I was lost trying to get out of Geneva airport (I'm not used to the Swiss side).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@viciousvulture, just thinking that if you are set on hiring a car, might be good to leverage that to find a cheaper accommodation base that is a short drive from a number of resorts. You could then do daytrips and hit the blacks/challenging reds in each one. Cut costs on accommodation and groceries and spend a little more on fuel and day passes.
Maybe somewhere near Sallanches and you could hit the high spots in Chamonix, Flaine, Les Contamines, Megeve, etc
Bourg St Maurice to hit Les Arcs, La Plagne (Montchavin), Ste Foy, La Rosiere, Val d'Isere, Tignes.
Modane to hit various resorts in the Maurienne, inc Orelle the backdoor to Val Thorens 3V
Briancon to hit Serre Che and Montgenevre/Milky Way, Puy St Vincent.
But saying that, basing yourself in one of the big resorts in the Tarentaise like les Arcs or Val d'Isere/Tignes would keep you busy and having a car there would be a disadvantage in terms of cost and parking issues, esp if you only need to find money for two bus/train transfer tickets.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Serre Chevalier:
Extensive (280km IIRC) and varied piste skiing with some lift accessed off-piste that offers a good introduction to getting off the groomed slopes. Monetier and Chantemerle would be my choice. Plenty of self-catering options (check out Chalet Chamoissiere https://www.chamoissiere.co.uk/ by way of an example - 200m from the lifts - owned by reliable snowHeads  ).
Traditional villages/towns, not massively lively. Good uplift. Plenty of tree lined skiing if the vis isn’t great. Decent snow record.
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Look at the Les Sybelles ski area (4th largest linked area in France) with lots of economical accommodation and easy to travel to from Lyon.
Or as mentioned above consider somewhere in the Maurienne valley which opens up a whole host of resorts with varied skiing such as Val Cenis, Valfrejus pop up on the Orelle lift into Val Thorens/ Three Valleys (discounted ticket if you buy the Haute Maurienne Valley pass) or even hop through the Frejus tunnel into Italy for a day skiing at Bardonnechia which is included in the HMV pass.
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@viciousvulture, does your car hire quote include winter tyres and / or chains. You'll need at least one of these by law to drive to many French resorts and may well need them in practice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you insist on hiring a car, then you are definately better off not staying in a big resort. Better being lower down nearby, getting cheaper accomodation, and able to visit a range of ski resorts.
Bourg St Maurice would be obvious choice for Espace Killy and Paradiski. Further back at Moutiers or Alberville would allow you to hit 3 vallees, and Espace Killy and Paradiski. Bourg St Maurice and Albertville would give you really good and large supermarkets, and cheap eating out. Accomodation can be very cheap in Albertville. (ibis budget, or etap would be good for 2 but you would have to cook on an iron, and kettle or eat out in evenings)
Plenty of ways of making noodles, with bacon on an iron and kettle.
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| Layne wrote: |
If going January flights and apartments will be cheap as chips.
Book flights (when released), book apartment (whenever you feel like it), book transfer.
As others say ditch the car idea, you don't need it and if it's snowy could be more trouble than it's worth.
One thing I will say is January is proper winter so can be bleak. For that reason I would stay somewhere like Les Coches or La Tania. Personally I wouldn't go to Tigne/Val D'Isere. Longer drive in, no real skiing below the treeline and just doesn't really gain anything for you. Disagree with JohnE buy a full pass and explore both sides. Massive mileage and variety to be had in Paradiski and the 3V's. And in January will be no lift queues.
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I second all of that! But for the reason highlighted, I would consider a lower and sunnier resort like Les Sybelle or Grand Domaine. They are cheaper as well. Paradiski in late January makes a lot of sense, if you want to do serious freeriding, as there are a lot of great spots. If the main focus is more piste oriented, I would recommend somewhere else, as it's quite northern oriented.
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FAQ
