 Poster: A snowHead
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I have heard rumours that plans for this are re-surfacing. Anybody heard any details? If it does go ahead, any ideas where it may stop on route to Flaine. I would presume somewhere on the road to Flaine - either at Les Mollliets or somewhere less off course/closer to Les Carroz.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When the rumours were last around it was about starting half way between Magland and Sallanches and ending up near te ice driving.
If you look closely on the Sallanches to Magland road you can see the old wires from there they put in a temporary lift to build flaine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I heard it was having a mid-point at top of Les Carroz then up to Col du Pierre Carre but that was when they were hoping for Olympics at Annecy with Skier-cross at Flaine. Not heard of any new plans, no doubt will find out when we get to Les Carroz, later in December.
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I believe that the original project was for a funitel between L'ile Fravin in Magland et L'Aulp de Véran in Flaine with an intermediate station in Les Carroz but the Magland Commune had to fork out about 50% of the project cost and this was the issue at the time. What I understood at the time is that it was going to follow the old telepherique used for raw material which was then replaced by the EDF electricity line that you can see on the Les Carroz ski area (via Col de Pierre Carrée I believe).
Le Dauphiné newspaper reported in October 2011 the project could be revived for 2018 and that a new study had been launched. Personally I am quite sceptical because there are a lot of conflicting interests. Resorts like Les Carroz would no doubt loose out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can't see the point in it unless you live in the valley (although it would make valley property attractive, wouldn't it - buy now! I've always fancied the garden centre at the bottom......). People coming for the week will either go up by coach or car. Depends how many skier days are locals I guess.
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A direct link from Les Carroz to the Flaine bowl would certainly enhance the reputation/notoriety of LC, even though it is already a really quick ski.
Do you think there is any chance that they would look to open up the part of the mountain beneath the Golf Course, down both ways (i.e. towards Flaine and towards Les Molliets). Seems like a large area of unused snow, that would reduce the bottleneck out of Flaine at Tete de Saix (especially if a cable car is more wind resistant than the existing Grand Vans chair lift)...
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billb, day trippers from Geneva and surrounding areas would flock to it i think.
simo1234, i would imagine you could quite easily join from the top of gerats up and over then make some pistes down towards molliets.
Cant see how you could ski back into flaine from the golf course apart from gerats as it is so steep. that would be some radical gradient.
pretty sure someone was caught out (died) in that area last time i went in 2009.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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simo1234, There are some off piste tracks going both ways..... And each year people die on them due to avalanches..... Often over night they close the col to blast away.
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Looking at the potential stations from 2009, if it ever comes to fruition, I think it might be preferable to replace the two stops in Les Carroz and Les Molliets with a single one somewhere near the bottom of the Plain Soleil and perhaps beef up the chair there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ianbradders wrote: |
day trippers from Geneva and surrounding areas would flock to it i think.
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Yes, good point. It really would make property in the valley an attractive proposition for skiers who want good access to other facilities. I'm getting interested.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sounds awesome, not heard he idea before
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Top of the golf course (Pointe Arbaron) down to below Molliets (Plaine Joux) is an awesome off piste run.... and its free if you use the free ski bus up to the Col 
Sounds like an interesting project and if open in the summer would be amazing for mountain biking as the tracks from Les Carroz down to Magland are brilliant.
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You know it makes sense.
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I have got a copy of a piste map dating back to 1969 that shows a proposed lift from Magland to L'Arbaron, which appears to be somewhere around where the Hameau development is now located and I guess is where norris is referring to. L'Association Flainoise has recently been talking about resurrecting the idea but I think it is still a pipe dream - it is difficult to see how the cost would ever pay for itself, although making the resort more accessible and attractive in the summer would certainly help.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That routing would open up Araches nicely for property owners!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I wonder why the reroute via Araches rather than through LC? Is this the case?
Is it to try and keep more traffic from entering LC? Only a small amount of property at Araches. Or is the plan for a big parking area?
If so i dont see why you would snake up the mountain road if you could get on at Magland.
I can see why the lift company would want it but will the GM not spoil itself by being so easily available. The first ski area from GVA and so easily accessible. Imagine how rammed it would be with daytrippers.
Im not sure i would want to spend a week there if it became over popular.
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@ianbradders, from a cursory read, they're using the existing pylon structure that was installed when they had to bring material in to construct Flaine.
Or, at least, the route.
Which I imagine gets past at least some of the pesky environmental questions.
Will it spoil it? Dunno. I might be getting nervous re: day trade if I was Les Gets, Morzine, etc... But that'll mostly be Weekends.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name, no they're not, the initial cables (which are still there) go from between Magland and Sallanches and cross the cliff at the 1st hairpin on your way out of Les Carroz
as for why route it that way @ianbradders, I imagine that it's as there's quite a lot of open space there so room for the development of apartmetns and car parks as well as stop traffic from gowing through Les Carroz, not to mention that it's actually teh administrative centre for Les Carroz and IIRC Flaine (or doe that come under the Magland Marie?)
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As a day tripper this is great news
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have got a copy of a 1969 Flaine piste map. This shows 'Telecabina future Magland-Arbaron-Flaine' coming up from Magland and ending at l'Arbaron - not sure where that is. I had also heard that there were talks about resurrecting the plan for a similar cable car, I think there may be references to this on the Association Flainoise website. 45 years later and they are still talking about it!
I will happily post it here if anyone is interested but I will need instructions on how to do that. The narrative is in Italian for some reason.
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@marcellus, that's the same route I published... From my same mate's page  isn't it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, ah sorry i didnt realise that you posted the recent news, just saw youd posted the chaletline link which is a different map.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We own an apartment in Les Carroz and were sent a link to an online questionnaire as to how much we would use funiflaine. We were in Carroz in the summer and from what I understand plans are finalised but financing is not quite yet. I picked up a paper copy of this in the summer which has the information on it
http://www.araches-la-frasse.com/DEMAIN-hors-serie-les-grands-projets.pdf
Incidentally the 2 x 2 man chairs up to Tete des Saix were both being dismantled (I'airon and Corbalanche) ready for the new fast 6 man chair which will go from Chalet des Molliets.
I've got mixed feelings about funiflaine - less people on the roads and less of a crush at the telecabine in the mornings, but more people in the slopes and surely the lift prices will have to go up to pay for it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Le Dauphine only seems to let me read the first few lines, but it does look to be on the rocks. I wonder whether it is a funding issue, or local politics which are crucial in France for major projects.
St Gervais seems to have it own rather similar project still on the cards, at least judging by the noticeboards around town showing artists' mock-ups. I don't know what their funding situation is (it won't be cheap), but at least both ends of the proposed gondola are within the same commune.
In both cases it seemed a good idea to create an entry point to the ski area that allowed easy access by those not using cars. From what I had read about Funiflaine there were technical considerations which meant that its lower station would involve a bus ride from the railway at either Magland or Sallanches; St Gervais modified its original proposal so that the bottom station would be in the station car park, opening up the skiing to day visitors by train from Geneva or Annemasse as well as other locations in the Arve valley.
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Poster: A snowHead
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When I was in Flaine this month the pistes were already v busy - this would increase numbers I assume so maybe it’s good if it is abandoned..,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@albertosaurus, the idea was mainly to facilitate workers access (not the economic reason) and to reduce traffic for day skiers ... it may have hit the obvious economic bumps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The contents of the article through Google translate:
It is an indiscretion that, when confirmed, will have the effect of a tornado. According to information from the Dauphiné Libéré, Funiflaine's project - this gondola that is to connect the Arve Valley to Flaine - is about to be abandoned. The decision was reportedly recorded this Tuesday morning during a meeting of the mixed union that carries out the project, bringing together in particular the Department, the Community of Municipalities Cluses Arve and Montagnes and the cities of Arâches and Magland. This choice was made "death at heart" by elected officials, describes a source close to the case.
According to what is known, Funiflaine has been experiencing considerable administrative delays for months that would have forced the project leaders to restart a number of procedures. Problem: these must take into account construction rates at the moment. However, with the phenomenal rise in raw materials, linked to the post-Covid period and the war in Ukraine, the project's overall economy has been completely disrupted. "It is no longer reasonable to continue under these conditions," says one of our interlocutors.
Last June, the Syndicat mixte du Funiflaine signed a public service delegation contract with the concessionaire group composed of Compagnie des Alpes, ski lift manufacturer Poma, Autoroutes et tunnel du Mont-Blanc and Crédit Agricole des Savoie.
In its latest known version, the project provided for the commissioning of the ski lift in 2025, following work launched in 2023. The XXL ski lift was to put the bottom of the valley just fifteen minutes from Flaine, via a passage through the Col de Pierre Carré. It had to transport 500,000 people each year and eliminate the passage of 85,000 cars. All for an investment estimated last year at €85 million. It is this envelope that, according to the latest budget estimates, seems to have exploded. To the point of leading to the probable abandonment of this 30-year-old project.
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Thanks @Faust1. There are some idiomatic French expressions which obviously don't translate well when Google is involved.
It does sound a lot of money, which wouldn't have to change much to undermine the cost-benefit calculation. Who knows whether the St Gervais proposal will collapse in the same way, but its budget (in the documents 2 years ago) was €12 million so perhaps the prospects are better. That will be partly because it is technically simpler (easier terrain, and going for a single rather than double cable system) but the plans do call for re-siting the existing bottom station for the Bettex gondola which won't be cheap.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I just wondered whether the death of Funiflaine is confirmed. That Dauphine article seems to be the sole news.
I came across something suggesting the St Gervais valley lift is still on the cards - though admittedly the website has an interest in promoting it because they are building apartments for sale. https://findhomeabroad.com/le-fayet-area-in-saint-gervais-and-the-new-valley-lift/
That claims planning permission is currently being sought for building to start this summer/autumn aiming for completion by the 2023-24 season. Though the budget is less clear than before, while the €14 million for the new lift isn't a big increase on the original estimate it also mentions a need for €20 million for the upgrade to the existing Bettex gondola; presumably that part of the intended joint station plus the cost of demolishing the old one and putting in at least one extra pylon (plus the dismantling and recabling, no idea if other renewal is intended).
In many ways the most attractive element (to us) is that according to the notices around the town, the new gondola will operate year-round and into the evening as public transport between Le Fayet and the main town. Convenient for arrivals by train.
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@j b, There was an article in the DL last week saying that the St Gervais valley lift was going ahead, with construction to start in the autumn (maybe so it doesn't get in the way of the TdF).
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Thanks @rjs, that is encouraging. The StG Maire is a canny political operator who probably knows how to pull the funding strings. And the whole development is within the same commune, getting rid of the French local political element.
If Funiflaine isn't happening, that will have strengthened his hand anyway: there is surely a good environmental argument for making it possible for people to access skiing easily entirely by public transport and this scheme becomes the only option. And it may also increase the case for introducing some fast trains (skipping out some intermediate stations) though that may be complicated on a single track line; it is something I have heard talked about by several sources.
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I read somewhere that they esitmate this one new lift from the vally up to StG will remove 5000 car journeys a day from the road up. Thats a major carbon reduction
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I read somewhere that they esitmate this one new lift from the vally up to StG will remove 5000 car journeys a day from the road up. Thats a major carbon reduction |
Indeed.... however what is the carbon cost of manufacturing, installing, operating and maintaining the new lift?
All the aluminium and steel
Transport
Concrete for top and bottom station, and each lift tower,
Helicopter fuel for installation,
Construction traffic
Cutting down trees to make way for the lift
Construction of car parks and other infrastructure.
Etc etc.
(I think the magland lift is a great idea, however the claimed environmental benefits are dubious)
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@tele, If you’re going to take into account the embedded emissions of the lift then you should also take into account the embedded emissions save from fewer cars having to be manufactured. The journey from Le Fayet to St Gervais is 5 km by road. Return is 10km. If 5000 fewer vehicles make the journey each day that that is 50,000 km of driving saved per day. If we assume that a car does 200,000 km in its lifetime then every 4 days the lift saves enough cumulative driving to allow 1 less car to be produced. Eventually the carbon saved from the reduction in car manufacture will probably equal the embedded carbon of the lift. Of course, if having St Gervais easily accessible from the train station encourages some people not to drive at all then the embodied carbon of the lift will be cancelled out even quicker
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