 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@silentice, I'm a skier but I think the principles are the same. The base cleaners are too strong IMHO, I tend to hot wax and hot scrape to clean the base and haven't used a base cleaner unless doing a repair.
I'd suggest do a couple of waxes and scrapes to try and load it up a bit more, some great info here (inc his hotbox if you want someone else to do it ) https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/1-tuning-advice/tuning-guide/9-base-tuning
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Those pics just look like residual wax not wear. If you scrape a fingernail over it do you pick up more wax. If so don't worry about it - it will wear off first couple of runs.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kitenski wrote: |
@silentice, I'm a skier but I think the principles are the same. The base cleaners are too strong IMHO, I tend to hot wax and hot scrape to clean the base and haven't used a base cleaner unless doing a repair.
I'd suggest do a couple of waxes and scrapes to try and load it up a bit more, some great info here (inc his hotbox if you want someone else to do it ) https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/1-tuning-advice/tuning-guide/9-base-tuning |
This. Avoid using the base cleaners as then can strip the wax from deep within the ridges of the base. Jf that has happened you will need 2-3 cycles of hot waxing to re-saturate the base. If you have time definitely do another wax. And in future clean the bases with a hot wax - where you scrape the wax off when still warm - followed by a final regular wax cycle where you allow the wax to fully cool before scraping.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@silentice, Is that a sintered base or just P-Tex ?
I ask because Mrs WoC got a razzy new Jones Board this season with a sintered base - it's lovely.
After the first few used she got it serviced professionally, and it rode nicely, but we didn't inspect closely how shiny it was.
Not to be outdone I self-serviced my Endeavour board, (P-tex) generous amount of wax the lots of scraping and hard brushing (really lots), and finally shone it with a fine soft brush ( and it was shiny).
Next time we rode my board was so smooth that I could butter it on the rough rolling magic carpets at the start of chair lifts.
She asked me to do the same with her board.
Before I did anything I looked at the base, and it felt nice and smooth, but not shiny.
It looks very much like yours.
Hopefully some expert will come along and explain this - is it over-structured from the factory (is that even a thing)?
Really I'm no expert, but I have waxed lots of snowboards ( 5 boards every 2 weeks for many years), and normally if I put enough time (and drink beers in the man cave) into it I can get them to shine.
I waxed, scraped and brushed the bejeasus out of the Jones board, and even though I got it a lot shinier I could not get it to glisten like my board.
From what I used to think I understood, fancy bases with graphite or sintering meant that the inter molecular spaces were smaller, so it was theoretically possible to get a smoother finish - maybe there's some hidden gene inside me that physically prevents me from making her board as shiny as mine.
We are not racers or anything, so it's not the end of the world, and I normally attribute my going faster on the flats to being heavier 
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@kitenski, thanks for the link, from this seems like more wax scrape cycles are needed on a new board. Ah well, luckily I don't have much work on today 
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on new skis repeat the wax/cool/scrape & brush steps as many times as possible as the base needs 'loading up' with wax to give protection & speed.
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I didn't intend to use the cleaner every time but wanted to remove the factory wax/dust/etc. I didn't realise it would need more than one round of wax though. Hot scraping sounds interesting (and messy), I might need a proper wax iron for that, I had a hard time spreading with my travel iron, perhaps the temp was too low. Guessing that didn't help absorption either.
@WindOfChange, This has a sintered 7000 base I believe, which is the minimum spec for Jones AFAIK. I wasn't going for shiny but just expected the colours to look deeper and more uniform. I'm not a racer either but would be good if the job lasts the week and doesn't leave the board exposed to get damaged unnecessarily.
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maybe there's some hidden gene inside me that physically prevents me from making her board as shiny as mine.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, There defo was/is some residual wax, I did brush a small section (the end in the photo) before posting and I think you can see it still looks dry along with the strange marks.
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@silentice, Just looked up Spec of Mrs WoC Air-Heart and its a Sintered 8000 base.
Apart from it being purple, when we got it it looked just like your base with those streaks.
Rides nicely though 
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@silentice, ah…you went to a snowdome…..with a Jones….hmmmm. There might be the issue.
The type of snow at Snowdomes is amazingly abrasive (icy, granular). You need a VERY hard wax when you go to snowdomes.
You can readily scour bases and get bad baseburn. We have experience of Jones sintered bases (Mind Expander). It was for sure not looking like yours.
The dull appearance is likely PTEX microhairs, and that will only be resolved with something radical - a base grind. If not that, hot wax and warm scrape with a metal scraper - being very very careful not to dig a corner into the base. Not base cleaners. Then we use Butta wax as a running wax in the hills.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@silentice, I never had too much of a problem getting my Jones Flagship base back to what you'd expect, but i'm wondering if you're not getting decent enough was penetration into the base. I first started with one of those eco soy-based waxes and it was, frankly, horrible. Worked fine on the wifes skis but it set like concrete on the board, and it was because i wasn't getting the board hot enough to get the wax to flow into the base properly. Since then I've changed to a different wax and slowed down my ironing a bit, and use more of a crayoning technique rather than a drip pour method, the whole process is much easier and I get a better result.
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I have a last-season Jones Hovercraft and it *really* needed a wax after its first 3 days in January. It then needed another wax after 3 days. Both times it was slowing up and looking like yours. I'm hoping after two waxes in close succession it should be OK for a bit now!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you cant afford to do it right with a £50 1000w iron then keep listening to the house iron brigade.
Its all about the heat ..A stable heat ....no matter the size board .cold or warm wax or room temp .
The story is the same .
You either wake up get with the program or you dont and as you stated ....you were going to turn up the heat on that junker iron which is when the trouble starts.
The junker iron has no base thickness its 3mm ,it has a junk thermostat it will never work holding a stable temp ...ever...let alone in a cold room with cold temp wax and you will hot spot the base effectively melting the very pores shut ....that your trying to open and fill with wax !
That means your at mug factor 10 out of 10 if you melt the pores shut ...its the house iron that will cause this .
Spend £50 or even less ...thats it ...thats all it takes .
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 21-03-22 19:13; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Even decathlon has a Vola iron under 40 but its probably lower watt I dont really know although the alloy base looks thick.
When decathlon sells ski gear thats better than what your using ..its really saying something .
I found a Toko 800w online for £32 with a quick look.
All the same I wouldnt bother with anything other than a 1000w from Jons piste office (or a older 4200) and you could get a few needed items shipped with it .
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 10-03-22 20:07; edited 2 times in total
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@Tirol 164, where did OP say it was a junker iron? I saw travel iron, but the one I've got was marketed as that simply because it has folding handles.
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You know it makes sense.
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The op needs a real iron to do a real job.
It doesnt matter what he or you or I say ..its how it works .
Sure you can cut corners .
I can sell you a frying pan if you like its not far off the same level as the conversation on travel irons
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Tirol 164, yes and there are wax irons which are marketed as travel irons, I got mine from Jon and it was labelled as a travel option but it still has the thick base and decent stable temp.
Just strikes me that you're giving quite a bit of attitude, mouthing off about junker irons and calling the OP a mug, when friendly advice is all that's needed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You can read it however you wish too either way a real iron has no equal so you either buy into that or you dont .
It didnt strike me the op has .
I havent seen a 1000w folding iron in the flesh but did see the one you mention once previously online either way ,today right now £50 gets you the real thing .
At some point the penny drops although with many only doing shorter trips couple times a season ....this may never happen .
Depends if you want to do it better or stay where you are and not progress
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 21-03-22 19:17; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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you went to a snowdome…..with a Jones
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I know.. I know.. really wanted to play with my new toys! If it needs a grind so soon then lesson learned and I won't take it again.
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with many only doing shorter trips couple times a season this may never happen
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Hit the nail on the head there. Thanks for the honesty, if a tad aggressive I get what you're saying. I'll take it on board and I'm going away on Saturday so no chance of rectifying any equipment choices now. I'll be surprised if it even has a 3mm base! FWIW I didn't want to commit to buying more junk if I was only going to end up getting it done in resort anyway, and 90% of the guides I saw used a household iron (including the company's own material from the wax I'm using, Butta).
Equipment aside, I think it's entirely down to technique, as has been alluded to. We all learn. Over lunch I sacrificed the household iron (probably used it 3 times in 4 years so maybe thats a strong word) and did a hot scrape, it came off clean and it's already looking better from that. The areas that I was worried I got too hot actually look the best. Those weird claw marks on the tip are gone. I was using the initial iron just past the 1st dot but this time I had this iron cranked up to 2 and it was a lot smoother/less painful. It was a £70 Philips, I hope you're happy Tirol!
I'll do a proper wax now and possibly a 2nd tonight and leave it in the airing cupboard overnight. Might get another round in tomorrow if it still needs it based on Piste Office article.
Worst case I'll get someone to look at it in resort from now on and I'll have saved an unloved waxing iron from a life in the loft.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That’s an explorer / frontier ?
I’ve got one. Always looks like that with the black base.
Don’t overthink it, just slap a bit of wax on, give it a scrape and brush and go ride it. It will be fine. Wouldn’t even worry about a base grind unless there’s no structure left. Tools not jewels.
However be careful with the household iron. I had one go wrong and get too hot, wasn’t paying attention and melted a hole in a board once. I always use a proper waxing iron now, they aren’t expensive. The logic being that wax irons heat the whole metal bit but household irons have hot sports. Don’t know how true that is.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Its a process of complete failure.
The house iron wont hold a stable temp its not capable of doing so by design ie thin base and junk thermostat etc and this gets far worse with cold waxes ,cold rooms ,cold equipment such as in resort with non workshop adversity
When the house irons temp drops on base contact which it will by design the user will turn the temp up to get the job done this carrys on with the junk irons base temp yo-yo ing up and down as the user plays with the temp dial .
As said its design will not hold a stable heat .
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This manual user turning up the temp is when it will burn or so to speak melt or hotspot the base ptex.
Which means YOUR NOW closing the very ptex pores your trying to open and impregnate with wax .
Ultimately this now means you need a base grind and thats a mugs effort Ive had some practice doing exactly this so expeirenced this exact failure .
Many either have no idea or wont want to admit it or couldnt care .
It can be visable on a black base as a slight discolouration but the effective melting or burning shut of the ptex pores ie. the very pores your trying to open with a stable heat.... is the mugs game completed .
Its far easier just to buy a real ski iron as its value increases as the quiver increases and/or ride time increases .
A 1000w as mentioned covers big fat boards sizes, cold snow temps , cold waxes and real cold room temps etc .
It will heat down through to the topsheet or through the whole boards matrix with a more stable heat and not put you in the yo-yo heat cycle of failure.
Its all about holding the right temp or heat to open the ptex pores ...then impregnate them with wax .
Just think about the hotbox principle
I cut corners in other ways on a lack of time in resort basis or non workshop basis but need the help of a 1000w iron because its so productive .
I have a 2200 800-850w ? and a 4200 1000w as I needed two irons.... but I never want to use the 2200.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 11-03-22 8:20; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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FAQ
Hot scrape (may well have been pointless but wanted to give it a go)
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