 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Rob Mackley, indeed. A skier died in a flachau yesterday following a collision above the flying mozart mid station
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Very sad news, condolences to the family.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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These are both very sad reports.
We’ve always said, it’s got to be one of very few types of holiday you’d go on where there’s a real risk you won’t get home alive.
I’ll leave my views on competent skiers batting it down blue runs to myself.
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Tragic.  Not surprisingly the Daily Mail report says that a 40-year-old local man was in police custody and an investigation has been opened for manslaughter.
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Heartbreaking
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| Tragic. Not surprisingly the Daily Mail report says that a 40-year-old local man was in police custody and an investigation has been opened for manslaughter. |
Which part is not surprising?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Alastair Pink, Also not sure what you are alluding to regards the "unsurprising" part.
Any skier who crashes into a kid from behind should be locked up in my view. There really is no excuse, and it happens far too often. I would be shocked if the other skier involved was NOT arrested.
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What a tragedy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's petrifying hearing this as a parent of young kids. You couldn't design a more risky environment where abilities, motivations and user environment conspire to expose the most vulnerable to huge consequences.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think the posters above all agree that it's welcome and expected that the skier was arrested.
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@Csb123, precisely. I think @Mollerski and @zikomo have totally misread my post, I was saying "not surprisingly" (i.e it's to be expected and totally reasonable) that the skier who collided with the 5 year old is being investigated for manslaughter.
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You know it makes sense.
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These stories are just horrific, especially when we're all so happy to read about families going skiing again, after such a long time. BUT - we shouldn't get the risks out of proportion. Child cyclists, or just (as in a recent case) a toddler being pushed along a pavement by their mother, are killed in RTAs. Really, the chances of going on holiday with the family and having a child killed in a collision on the slopes are vanishingly small. 4 people a day including a sad number of kids, are killed on Britain's roads. My two local grandchildren, aged 9 and 11, have been cycling on the road, with their (experienced cyclist) parents, for some years. They must be running more risk, objectively speaking, than the one week a year they spend skiing (when they can afford it). Kids drown, too more often than they are killed on the slopes.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 16-01-22 13:34; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As a family of cyclists I agree @pam w, but we there are loads of controls in place on roads that simply aren't there (or are left implied) on skiing slopes. Competence tests for starters.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Oh God, that's awful. I've skied Serpentine (where it happened) many, many times. 20 years ago, the day before my 50th birthday I was waiting at the bottom of the Vernant chair (in GM) with my two boys when an out of control French skier crashed into us sending us all flying. I and the older one got up OK but the younger one (11 at the time) was screaming in pain. He was helicoptered to Flaine medical centre and my heart was in my mouth skiing down to see how bad he was. Got there and he was sitting up smiling - broken collar bone. But an incident like this brings it all back especially in the same resort. We were lucky, this family wasn't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Alastair Pink, Re-read you post and looks like we are all in agreement. I have experienced and seen far too many collisions that should have been avoided. Most ski instructors I know wear a back protector when teaching now as they have been hit so many times. I simply do not understand why this is not addressed and why particularly the French seem so opposed to decent ski patrol with powers to police the slopes. I also have to say that the most dangerous group are male one/two week a year skiers, who often seem to over-estimate their ability.
So sad to hear of this tragedy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| zikomo wrote: |
| I also have to say that the most dangerous group are male one/two week a year skiers, who often seem to over-estimate their ability. |
If the information in the report is correct it does not sound like this skier was in this group at all. Even excellent skiers can be dangerous if they are going too fast for the beginners around them. It should make all skiers pause for thought whether their approach is appropriate to the slope and everyone else who is skiing it.
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@Skimum1, true. All it takes is for the skier below to make an unexpected move... Which is why I tend to avoid pistes unless they are empty, and almost always choose to ski on variants off the side of the piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One problem is that the ski collisions seem so horribly random - we all think we can protect our kids in swimming pools or on beaches, or on the roads, by careful watching over them, and teaching them about the dangers, and how to swim or ski or cycle safely. But some idiot crashing down the piste just seems random, like being struck by lightning. Most of us who have skied with kids would probably have to admit that at times our kids have been "out of control", picked up more speed than they could cope with, and careered down until the slope flattens, or they crash into someone. One of my nephews crashed, in such circumstances, into an ESF instructor who was standing in front of his lined-up pupils, pontificating. No harm was done, except to his amour-propre but my sister was mortified and admitted to just ignoring him and not owning up. He got a bollocking, of course, when they were out of sight. One of the worst injuries I knew of was to a woman impacted standing right on the edge of the piste, with a four year old. A rather hefty boy totally out of control smashed into her knee - sideways - with his helmeted head. If the 4 year old had been above her mother on the piste she could well have been killed.
We have probably all been guilty at times of driving a bit inattentively, allowing one of our kids to ski beyond their ability or doing so ourselves. I know I have, but I've got away with it. The occasional successful prosecution of dangerous driving, or skiing, has a salutary effect - though I would prefer to see much tougher and more consistent sanctions for speeding and careless driving. And more evident patrolling of ski pistes, too - and a real risk of having lift passes confiscated.
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It doesn’t take long cycling on roads to realise driving ‘competence tests’ are a sad joke. What may make a difference is proper enforcement of applicable laws and standards, whether on roads or skiing.
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The report said the little one was in a single file behind the instructor, on a blue, turning right. A question will be asked of if the instructor looked uphill properly before leading them i guess. I’m so nervous approaching ski schools because they are sometimes quite erratic. I suppose that’s the thing though, knowing this you should always approach with caution. A horrible horrible situation
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@pam w, My Daughter was teaching a group of 6-8yo children in Switzerland. A speeding, possibly out of control french guy smashed into the snake. The kid whom took the brunt suffered a broken leg. The skier, after collecting himself attempted to ski off. Fortunately, a couple of my daughter's colleagues had arrived on the scene and carried out a 'citizens arrest' on the guy until the mountain patrol arrived. Very upsetting for all involved.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This gets worse, doesn't it? Killed in a ski lesson.  Somehow makes it all the more desperately sad - her parents wouldn't have had any worries about her being out.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @Alastair Pink, Re-read you post and looks like we are all in agreement. |
Absolutely
| zikomo wrote: |
I have experienced and seen far too many collisions that should have been avoided. Most ski instructors I know wear a back protector when teaching now as they have been hit so many times. I simply do not understand why this is not addressed and why particularly the French seem so opposed to decent ski patrol with powers to police the slopes. |
I've discussed this very point on Facebook with Charlotte Swift (Easiski) who is based in Les Deux Alpes. Apparently a few years ago at some French ski resort the pisteurs removed the lift pass from someone who was skiing dangerously, and being a lawyer he took them to court and won his case against them. Apparently the court ruled that as he had paid for the lift pass it was his property and the lift company had no right to remove it from him. It seems that it's not only in British Law that in the words of Dickens ""The law is a ass—an idiot."
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| bambionskiis wrote: |
| The report said the little one was in a single file behind the instructor, on a blue, turning right. A question will be asked of if the instructor looked uphill properly before leading them i guess. I’m so nervous approaching ski schools because they are sometimes quite erratic. I suppose that’s the thing though, knowing this you should always approach with caution. A horrible horrible situation |
IMV, seeing a class/group/lesson of any age ahead is a heads up, ease up situation. It would only take one of the group to catch an edge or lose balance and shoot out of the snake to cause an accident if passing too fast or close. To hit a student in lesson would be beyond appalling.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mollerski: your comment:
‘…The skier, after collecting himself attempted to ski off…’
Seen this a dozen times. And happened some years back when an older skier hit my then five year old. In that case the skier became violent when detained.
The law in CH states that in the case of an accident details need to be exchanged. But I have experienced so many people thinking that they can behave irresponsibly and then just vanish without consequence. Appalling. And common.
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I know we've been through this many times here but the onus is on the uphill skier to avoid those below him, whatever they do. No exceptions. None. Time after time I've called out to some "expert" who skis far too close when passing you. It's just downright dangerous.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Mollerski, agree totally. This was a tragic but entirely preventable accident.
My condolences to the family concerned.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bambionskiis wrote: |
| The report said the little one was in a single file behind the instructor, on a blue, turning right. A question will be asked of if the instructor looked uphill properly before leading them i guess. I’m so nervous approaching ski schools because they are sometimes quite erratic. |
True about ski school snakes sometimes being erratic, which is why it's even more important to abide by Rule number 4 of the 10 FIS Rules for conduct of Skiers and Snowboarders:
4. Overtaking
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary (my emphasis) movement. A skier or snowboarder who overtakes another is wholly responsible for completing that manoeuvre in such a way to cause no difficulty to the skier or snowboarder being overtaken. This responsibility rests with him until the overtaking manoeuvre has been completed. This rule applies even when overtaking a stationary skier or snowboarder.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@valais2, The 'french guy' involved was less than compliant. It became quite heated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Alastair Pink,
Interesting. So how would that be determined if the skier being overtaken had just entered a piste from a side piste (junction) and had not checked uphill on entering? As happened with our incident.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 16-01-22 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
@Alastair Pink,
Interesting. So how would that be determined if the skier being overtaken had just entered a piste from a side piste (junction) and had not checked uphill on entering? As happened in our incident. |
Rule 5 of the 10 FIS Rules for the Conduct of Skiers and Snowboarders would apply, i.e the skier joining the slope without checking uphill would be at fault. Quote:
5. Entering, starting and moving upwards
A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others. Experience proves that joining a slope or starting again after stopping is the sources of accidents. It is absolutely essential that a skier or snowboarder finding himself in this situation enters the slope safely and without causing an obstruction or danger to himself or others. When he has started skiing or snowboarding properly again – even slowly – he has the benefit of rule 3 as against faster skiers and snowboarders coming from above or behind. The development of carving skis and snowboards allows their users to carve and turn upwards on the slopes. Hence they move opposite to the general downhill traffic. They must, therefore, make sure in time that they can do so without endangering themselves and others.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Only not to blame if he was skiing properly and in line with the traffic/conditions on the run. I was nearly wiped out by a teenager earlier in the week flying down a blue sitting down on the back of their skis.
You can blame an ESF instructor but the length of look they give up the hill, and WHERE they look, is proportional to the speed most people should be descending.
Can’t stand idiots skiing straight down a green or blue at 80kph when beginners or families around.
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Very sad to read, it happens but frankly shouldn’t. Saying that I’ve been hit _a lot_ when teaching. Once in Nz ended up in a heli to ChCh and Japanese guy had his pass cancelled. Was hit in Val a few times as well and classes collected. We were in Flaine for NY 2019 and I said we’d never go back as there were a high number of proper nutters on the Blues back to main part, poss same run. Anyway, awful to read.
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Quiet possible alcohol might have been involved
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"Easy" ski slopes are the most dangerous places. Too many people, too many speed differences and particularly too many fools who think their ability to dynamical balance at speed on their heels makes them an expert skier.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dublin2 wrote: |
| Quiet possible alcohol might have been involved |
Possibly, but that of course is purely speculation at the moment. It's quite possible that he would have been tested for alcohol when taken into custody.
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To add to this - quite a lot of people, including on this forum, use ski tracking apps and boast about the purported maximum speeds they have achieved. There is no doubt that many of them deliberately try to ski as fast as possible to get the bragging rights. For the normal recreational skier these speeds will only be achievable on easier slopes, and no way a one/two week a year skier will be in control at those speeds. We have all seen the speedsters on blue or easy red slopes, straight-lining. I shudder whenever I hear about or observe this behaviour, and am at a loss as to why it is not policed.
There is a reason why when race training we only have one person on a course at a time, managed with observers in radio contact at the top and bottom of the course. Some of the speeds boasted about by the ski tracker app brigade are well in excess of what my kids, who are experienced racers, achieve on a GS course. They never ski at those speeds on public pistes, and I do not allow them to use GS race skis outside of training areas.
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FAQ
