 Poster: A snowHead
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Had my second proper-ish powder day today, which gave me a right royal kicking about my (known) bad habit of having too wide a stance when traversing slopes. The predictable thing happened - inside edge of the uphill ski grabbed and foxtrot oscared up the hill taking my leg with it. I think my knee basically got bent sideways very rapidly.
Initially quite painful, but is mostly a dull ache. Pain follows the outer edge of the kneecap, slightly biased towards my lower leg. I can still ski ok (finished the day), provided I ski well with full commitment*. Neshness and indecision gets punished. Walking in ski boots is even worse than normal - the bit where you lock the knee and push back and down to rise up on the toe of the boot is proper hurty.
Currently resting, icing and elevating it and self medicating with beer and ibuprofen.
A) anyone care to hazard a guess at what I’ve done.
B) any quick fix solutions - braces, strapping etc?
C) how much damage am I likely to do if I’d keep skiing. Got another pow day forecast tomorrow which I really don’t want to miss …! Obviously going to see what happens overnight.
Thank you!
*it’s a very good training technique, but probably not for everyone!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Poor you ... not good. Note the thread below which says that ibuprofen apparently now not recommended.
Sounds like a ligament tear but not ACL.
What’s the stability of the joint?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Non-medical advice but from experience. If you have full range of movement in the knee you are probably ok. If you have done anything to your acl knee will swell up like a balloon and pain will stop you having full range.
Yes latest advice says don’t use anti-inflamatories. It can delay recovery. BUT hot then cold treatment plus beer and ibuprofen works to get you through!
I would see how it is on the morning. If very swollen stop skiing. If it feels ok go for it. Unlikely to make it much worse. And also always commit more to skiing well and hard when you have a niggle, you are much more likely to injure yourself by backing off.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Does your handle mean you have one or more Cotics or do you work for Cy?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It’s likely not your ACL, I tore mine and was unable to put any weight on that leg at all and the swelling was massive. I also have skied with a ruptured ACL while waiting for surgery, I thought “what’s the worst that can happen, it’s already broken”, I strapped it up and my knee held up. If the pain is bearable I would continue with a decent brace, the ones with metal hinges or at least some metal on the sides are perfect if you can find one. I would also take things slower and steadier, you don’t want to be doing any emergency stops!! Haha
In terms of what you might have done, To me it sounds like you might have done some damage to your MCL. Look for bruising around the location and also around your ankle where the blood might have drained down to. That might be a sign of a rupture.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I had a (fortunately minor) meniscus tear a couple of years back. Like you I skied on after the fall that caused it. It was walking around that caused the discomfort. Skied the next day. Walking was more painful. Went to physio who diagnosed tear, gave me a bunch of exercises, plus rest (no more skiing for rest of season fortunately was March). It only really cleared up when I started cycling. Wherever you are there will be a physio used to dealing with ski injuries. Be sensible and go and get it checked out, not worth risking more serious damage, the mountains will still be there the next day.
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One of the last times I skied - on the last run of the last day - I fell because I wasn't paying enough attention on a deserted easy run. I tweaked my knee, which hurt to put weight on. I got back by skiing with my weight equally on both skis.
It also hurt a bit on the trip home....where I then made an appointment with a Physio ASAP. As it happened, I had done no major damage and it just needed time to heel, while working on all the supporting muscles around the knee.
My advice, is to get it diagnosed as quickly as possible, so you know what you are dealing with and so don't make matters worse.
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Sounds like a tear. Trade in your skis for a snowboard for the rest of the week. Unless you get a ski mojo & offload the weight from your knee?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Knee going sideways is how I managed to snap my quads tendons, you haven't done that if your leg still sort of works but could be tendon or ligament damage and as my surgeon put it the squishy bits are easy to damage and take more fixing! Having trashed knee once I'd be getting it properly checked out to make sure I didn't turn a minor injury into something worse.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 12-02-22 21:41; edited 1 time in total
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Sounds more like an LCL injury to me as the movement leading to injury souds identical to when I did mine! I kept skiing for the rest of the week, albeit slower and more thought to technique, as it was comfortable in a bent knee skiing position, I had lost a day of the holiday already due to the beast from the east but mainly as I am very stubborn!! I bought a support with integral strapping which was OK but upgraded to using a mate's one with metal bracing to ensure I didn't do any further damage. Straightening or the knee or bending in to a deeper squat was a complete no-no so choose your lifts wisely! I saw a Dr and a sports physio within days of getting home for diagnosis and treatment a couple of months of physio and associated exercises and my knee was good again. Ibuprofen, ice and elevation (and wine) helped me enjoy my holiday as far as was possible.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks all.
Stability is fine, no noticeable swelling and nothing is tender to the touch.
It’s stiffened up some over dinner but I can walk up and down stairs ok (albeit slowly). I suspect whatever it is, is bent rather than broken.
As the username suggests I do a lot of cycling so I’m reasonably strong (in certain ways) around the knees. @valais2 I had one of the first Souls, way back when, ran a Soda for well over a decade and have raced and worked for Cotic on and off and have a selection of them in the cellar!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@CoticJon, excellent! We like Cotics a lot in our house - Simple, BfeMax and Roadrat at present…
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@CoticJon, Sounds like good news, hoe you enjoy the rest of your week.
Knee will likely be somewhat swollen and stiff this morning. More ibuprofen and take the time for some stretching and warm up exercises if so. And as I said earlier, more commitment to skiing technique rather than less is the way to go. If you are hesitant or back off too much you are more likely to do more damage!
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You know it makes sense.
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Given you have internet access do they not have a doctor or medical centre where you are skiing?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Probably an MCL strain.
Unless you have just stressed it a bit, and there is no swelling and the pain isn't bad then you probably have strained the MCL
Grade 1 is generally 6 weeks recovery, increasing with grades 2 & 3, There could be some meniscus damage too.
You may think you are ok to ski with drugs and strapping, but if you have a strain then some of the ligament fibers have torn and the ligament is much weakened, leaving you far more susceptible to a severe knee injury.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Frosty the Snowman, and if stretched the MCL doesn't really get that much better
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @Frosty the Snowman, and if stretched the MCL doesn't really get that much better |
Yep, lots of physio required
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@holidayloverxx, ….that's right...they do tend all to add up...me:
1996 - motorbike … ACL Left….ouch
1998 - skiing … same ACL ...ow
2000 - mtb….AC shoulder ligament RH strain… ouch
2006 - road bike...AC ligament LH rupture grade 3 separation ...eek
2019 - jump bike...scapho-lunate ligament wrist strain … ouch
And basically I can feel any one of them or all of them at any time, depending on what I am doing. Felling a one-toner, logging and splitting it does tend to produce irritating twinges and aches, from all the different actions...
'It's just a sprain..' isn't medical sense, as you suggest. Once torn and stretched you have to live with it, mainly compensating with muscle development. My left knee is SO much bigger than my right one, quads are a completely different shape to my right ones. It's been 25 years since I did my ACL and that knee now is totally different in shape and geometry. But it works.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@CoticJon, rule Number 5 - beer, ibuprofen, icing etc been good enough for me for well over 40yrs 
Get down to a ski shop and buy a good brace, not a neoprene tube but something a bit more substantial with hinges if at all possible.
As for more damage.....
If you do an ACL properly (and it sounds that you have not), and by that a total rupture, which you can usually achieve by getting back up and try to ski again after your first fall, when you should have heard some things go pop/click and the like, you then get back up and the second time, if you do it well your ski shoots out along with you leg sideways and you hear more popping
Later once back off the hill if you're really lucky someone will try and perform a Lachman test, this is when they try to pull your leg away from your thigh, if you've managed to really feck your ACL your leg should move 10 to 15 mm more than is normal for its range of motion, along of course with a sickening pain.
I've ripped various chucks of cartilage off over the years and have had two or three lots of keyhole and sometimes I'm fine and then the next day it can be sore a la @valais2, evidently I tore my ACL in one knee without knowing it, only to be told by the knee consultant when he was doing the keyhole and took a look!
I too do a lot of cycling so have quite well-developed muscles which is like a brace anyway
A few years ago in Japan, we were skiing very deep powder and I dropped into a big hole and compressed my knee very suddenly and heard two or three loud clicks, it was then a case of very gingerly skinning back up the hill to do another run and then a very gnarly ski out of the valley.
Next day I rested, and then for the next two or three days skied with a brace I brought with me, we call it the "inacasey bracey" the skiing was touring so I was fine skinning and then just had to be careful skiing, but in good Jap-pow it was not an issue.
Once back to France first-round Covid hit, so only a few more ski-sorties and then I had to wait a couple of months to get an MRI.
It was then a further month when I went back to see my friendly Knee Consultant in the UK, on examination of the MRI he told me I had bust my knee with a compression fracture of the thigh bone smashing into the patella and what he saw on the MRI was the healing that he would have expected two to three months after the injury.
So it's possible to grin and bear the pain with the right mixture of drugs, a mate of mine did the a charity TDF bike ride doing every stage, and after four rides his Achillees was really bad, the team doctor administered vast quantities of paracetamol and ibuprofen to see him through the next couple of weeks!
Things have changed dramatically in France re the strength and quantity of drugs being prescribed, in the old days if you had an injury you walk out of the pharmacy with a veritable array of pain killers that the Dr would have prescribed and some of these I still have in my emergency first aid kit, noways its just low strenth paracetamol 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Keys points:
If the knee swelled within an hour or two then statistically ACL or at least grade 2 MCL. There are other causes.
Site of pain is not always helpful as lateral side of knee can be patella, lateral meniscus, chunk out of joint surface and ACL. At least your story probably not excludes MCL.
Of course, diagnosis is everything to me, you could bypass and have a go at trying to get it to settle ( most injuries are minor)
If swollen ice, anti flammatories and relative rest
The brace, so loved by marketeers, probably has very little if any positive effect for you even if someone benefits from it. ( the vendor) .
Some will be reassured by its presence.
If doesn’t settle within a week or so get an opinion from a good physio. ( money week spent, people like me are more expensive and best entertained if physio can’t help or injury serious)
Jonathan Bell
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@CoticJon, how did you get on?
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FAQ
. Just got to figure out how to afford it 
!