Really want to go skiing but extremely vulnerable

A snowHead

I am classified as clinically extremely vulnerable (CEV) to Covid due to being on immune suppressants and have pretty much been shielding since the outbreak. I’ve not been skiing since Jan 2019 and am now desperate for a break to the mountains.
I am thinking of a trip with the Ski train (as it just feels safer to me ? Less people at security, passport control etc) to Les Arcs, staying in a self catered apartment, sticking to chair lifts and eating outside where possible.
I understand this is not a medical forum and I have spoken to my consultant who has given the ok to go but I still feel a bit unsure. Although after all the shielding I think the mental health benefits of going are huge. Being in the mountains, spending time with friends and having some fun.
Has anyone else gone skiing recently that is CEV ? How are things in resort with regards to COVID ? Did it feel safe ? Anyone else have an experience to share or can offer any advice ?
Thanks

A snowHead

Perhaps wait until the towards the end of the season when case rates will have (hopefully) dropped?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

First of all it is inspiring to hear you story and how much you value your skiing!

If I was to design the safest possible trip I would:
1. Go by car, so you can control your environment and contacts. Second safest would be flying - you will likely be in contact with others for shorter periods of time. I would get priority security and also speak to the airline to see what they can do to help - maybe special assistance where you board first and separately and help with passport control etc. Train would be the third option but maybe consider booking an extra seat so you don't have anyone sitting right next to you.
2. I would pick a resort where you can access the skiing using only chairlifts and surface lifts. If you avoid enclosed lifts (gondolas/cable cars/funiculars) there should be very minimal risk to the actual skiing.
3. I would book a private transfer if not travelling by car.
4. I would book an apartment, self-catering. Again to reduce contacts

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Perception, not even anecdotal input, that a train involves more time in covid "transfer" environment for the risks you're considering.

Certainly not meant to be a downside view as I feel your psychological stance on getting to the mountains is highly desirable. Practical management of risk is going to be nuanced.

Destination (practical, anecdotal, longer experience) I would view places like Ste Foy and Val Cenis as far less people dense especially outside principle holidays, also both with all open lift systems, plenty of spacious outside eating etc to help with day to day management of exposure in close proximity avoidance. Incidentally, I'm a big fan of Les Arcs but practical management of your own risk there I see as maybe worrying for you, it's usually quite busy certainly.

Hopefully you are able to strike a competent balance as it's such a beautiful environment to visit.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Hi @picnic64.

I am also in the same category. Triple jabbed (soon to be entitled to my 4th) and recovered from Covid. I also happen to be married to a doctor, who, as most people who are marrried to medical staff, is mostly unsympathetic!

I feel that there was a lot of fear projected by the government, in order to direct the population in a certain way. In a way, I think that they didn't have much option, but I also think that there are certain groups who were used as an example, and if you are in one of those groups, it can be a bit intimidating.

I can't speak for your medical condition, but for me, having been triple jabbed for a month, then having caught what i presume was omicron, it was really mild. My wife tells me that more than 80% of Covid admissions to her hospital are incidental i.e. they were admitted to hospital for something else but due to the high case numbers in the population, and with all admissions being tested, they happen to have covid.

I am going skiing next week - can't wait. I am driving, which perhaps minimises the risk a little (although everyone on a plane should have a negative test result). In my view, the increased risks of going skiing are:

1) A cold wet day where everyone is inside for lunch or dinner
2) Gondola
3) Any buses

The benefits, imo, far far outweigh the slightly increased risks of these three elements. As @NBH suggests, perhaps go a little later in the season, weather is likely to be better, and avoid the school holidays with all the pesky littlies who show no symptoms, and case numbers should be a lot lower. Nothing in life is risk-free.

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@picnic64, if possible, I would drive in your situation and stay in a self catered apartment.

I'd look at La Rosiere, haven't been, but as far as I can tell, you can ski the entire area without using a gondola.

https://piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/France/La-Rosiere-Piste-Map-2020.pdf

You could also visit St Foy from there, where again, you need not use a gondola.

https://piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/France/Sainte-Foy-Tarentaise-Piste-Map-2019.pdf

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks for the brilliant replies, much appreciated! Some more things to think about. Especially around the travel. I was thinking train would be safe at main touch points live departure and arrivals.The thought of being stuck in a passport control queue at Heathrow/Gatwick terrifies me Very Happy

I thought leaving St Pancras and arriving into Bourg there would be less people congregated but of course I would be sat on a train for longer. But flying offers more destinations rather than being limited to France with the train. I’ll take a good look at covid stats for other countries as well.
I should have mentioned we were looking at first week in March and I had my 4th jab a few days ago.
I like the idea of a small resort as well. I have been to St Foy quite a few years ago and it was a great little place !
Thanks again for the comments

After all it is free

Obviously it will differ dependant on time, but when I passed back through LHR last week there was no queue whatsoever, just walked straight to the gate. In fact I was probably closer to people walking around Paddington than I was at LHR...but that could be hugely dependant on the time of day, and GVA could be a completely different matter.

Use an FFP3 mask for the plane , your partner should be able to help re fit in the absence of a formal fit test eg glasses dont steam at all etc Decisions based on risk by govt are population based and a otherwise fit (albeit on immunosuppressive treatment ) person is likely to be much lower risk then an elderly unfit person with multiple comorbidities.

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Hi I'm also classed as CEV though I'm 18 months post treatment.
Have had the extra booster
I don't feel particularly vulnerable now the issue is how can you tell?
We went a couple of weeks ago to Italy by air via Innsbruck
Travel wise the only bit I was less than happy was Innsbruck airport on the way home which was it's usual ruck due to flights being canceled.
Skiing was great we stayed away from the big cable cars and most bars but otherwise did as normal on the slops.
Trip was originally booked in early 2020
We did think before we went that we should have postponed again but that was due to all the paperwork and rule changes that were going on rather than the risk of catching covid.
Sorry not sure my ramblings are any help to you making a discussion

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Before making a decision keep an eye on this

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/france/

France is reporting 289,231 new infections on average each day.

UK is currently 82,360 https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/united-kingdom/

I would leave it until the end of the season in the hope that case numbers come down in France

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There is no chance at all that you will never catch covid, unless of course you self isolate for the rest of your life.

Over the last two years I've known really ill people catch covid and be fine and folks I class as super fit being knocked off their feet.

IMHO - Get out there and enjoy your life.

I’m vulnerable, although not extremely (not on steroids at the mo), having a long standing autoimmune bowel disease. I’m just back from a week away in Italy.

Knowing all the risks I decided to go - as much for a head clearing exercise as anything else (also had a cancer diagnosis this time last year).

Had a wonderful time away, the skiing & company was superb.

The ‘but’ is I tested positive on Weds after a few days of feeling grot. I’m doing ok - a bit of a temp & flu/cold symptoms. I’m the only one of the 6 of us positive so we’re presuming it’s my dodgy immune system that’s made me more susceptible.

I accepted the risks when I went and would do it again in a heart beat. In fact, I’m due to go again in just over 4 weeks time & this certainly hasn’t put me off going back.

Only you know what’s best for you but at some point we have to get back out there. Enjoy your trip if you go.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

If you live down south anyway would it be safer to drive? You could also take a load of food with you and eat in apartment at lunch too to reduce trips into shops

A snowHead

@picnic64, when i read your post i immediately thought as per swskier's suggestion. (self drive and smaller resort)
we've just returned from La rosiere. We drove (usually do) and stayed self catering with a family and friends group - although not vulnerable we felt this gave us the least C19 risk (- as isolating/time off work would be a real pain)
La Ros rarely has any significant lift queues, esp outside of high season weeks.
We also were fortunate enough to get a appartment with ski in/out (Leplanica.com) - so no buses etc.
Only one gondola in the ski area and that is up from La Thuile (italy), though this can be avoided by using a couple of chair lifts...though to be honest when skiing from La Ros we rarely go all the way down to La Thuile.
another plus is when the weather is good, La Ros has sun all day - a real tonic to sit on the bar terrace and take the view of the distant alps...

A snowHead

Hi, I am also on immunosuppressants and triple-jabbed, just become eligible for my 4th. I am currently based in Chamonix. Compliance with mask-wearing here has been pretty high but not 100% (I would say around 75% on enclosed lifts, not at all in what queues there have been). Passe sanitaire is checked for the first 2-3 hours of the day but not in the afternoons. And I did catch Covid here, earlier in January, presumably either from the bubble lift or the couple of instances when I had coffee/lunch indoors. I am really grateful it was relatively mild but it did put me in bed for a week. So I am now using an FFP mask when on enclosed lifts (and kicking myself for not doing so before!) and this has made me feel much more comfortable.

Despite all this I agree the mental/physical health benefits of a break are definitely worth the risk (I am still here after all Smile

). I think driving down would be the safest travel option (we did this) but if you need to fly, an FFP mask is a good mitigation. Similarly while in resort FFP + minimal use of enclosed lifts would be an effective way to manage risk.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@picnic64, it is tough for you since you are inevitably thinking "what if?" But it is likely the mental health benefits are worth it though only you can tell. Certainly for us ordinary folk the spirits were lifted enormously by skiing again a couple of weeks ago.

As far as I know, infection risk depends on the same things as it always did - proximity to others and time spent. You can somewhat swing the odds by wearing a good mask and of course being vaccinated, but those are the things you need to think about. I agree with others that driving puts you most in control of your personal risk, though driving all the way to the Alps in a day is quite daunting if you aren't used to it and you might need to factor in an overnight stop (most hotels are probably not as much as a risk as you might think, easy to keep your distance from others). It might also help to plan your destination around ease of driving as well as other factors. While a resort without gondolas might be ideal, from using them recently I don't think they are highly risky provided you avoid busy periods (half term) and times of day (just before ski school). France didn't feel risky to us, the French were very good at checking vaccination status, their own peak is now coming down anyway and of course Omicron presents a lower risk of serious illness than there has been previously.

It is impossible to say there is zero risk*, but I would expect the benefit to justify what is a rather small risk.

[*The best risk advice would come from a doctor who knows you and your condition, so if your consultant has said OK then you can be pretty confident].

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@sugarmoma666, oops now corrected ta

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Sorry to hear about your condition. I can understand your itch to go skiing but I would personally wait for another year. While skiing is fun, your health is more important. I think the question to ask is if god forbid you got covid while out there would you have regretted going? Conscious the risk is not very high but it's better be safe. I guess I'm more risk averse than most.

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I'm assuming driving is not an option as picnic64 did not respond and a few of the other posting on this thread have not done that. Must admit I don't really know why. It's not a difficult trip and takes all that brain ache away.

If you drive/ski/eat & drink outside/self cater, there is such low risk it's a no brainer IMO if you really want that snow and mountain fix.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Please take on board that Covid is rife still in France.

And many don't test, and the 7 day rule is questionable as we're all testing positive ten days in, and Frenchies as well as Brits will not let mild covid symptoms keep them inside when on their one week holiday anyway!

My daughter is vulnerable caught it here nine days ago, good news is that it's no worse than a bad cold.

I know of more than a handful of Brit holiday skiers to France who tested positive on their return.

As has been said, drive via the tunnel is your best strategy, and self cater, and just keep yourselves to yourselves.

If you must eat / drink out book a terrace, and don't do self service, it's all really common sense.

We all caught it, but we were going to bars etc

After all it is free

Lots of good advice already. 2 of my immediate family are clinically extremely vulnerable (CEV) to Covid due to being on immune suppressants. Both were totally housebound until the vaccines arrived. Both have subsequently had Covid, for one it felt like a mild cold whilst the other had no idea they had it. Both had it after their 3rd jab and have now had their 4th.

The vaccines work - get out their and enjoy your life. If you decide to go I hope you have an amazing time.

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The places that we felt most at risk last week in France were (in order):

1. Crowded cable cars in Alpe d'Huez, and gondolas to a lesser extent
2. A full restaurant (indoors) in Lans en Vercors
3. A full easyJet flight
4. A very busy Geneva airport on Saturday departure day

Apart from those pinch points there seemed to be very little risk of transmission. Fortunately, we tested negative after getting home. So my advice would be:

1. go to a quieter resort, ideally with few or avoidable cable cars / gondolas, e.g. Les Sybelles, Espace Diamant, La Rosiere / La Thuile.
2. avoid February half term weeks
3. eat restaurant lunches on the terrace (or have a packed lunch)
4. drive to the Alps instead of flying
5. if you do fly, a. book a cheap flight (lower prices probably mean there are more empty seats), b. fly out / back from a quieter UK airport, c. avoid Saturdays, when Alpine airports are at their busiest, d. avoid shared transfers to get to resort
6. self cater, meaning you can eat in or get a takeaway during the evenings

Obviously it would be difficult to do every one of those things, but each one should help lower the risk.

I reckon there was more risk of catching Covid on our single day at Alpe d'Huez than at any time during our other 8 days skiing combined.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

If we're all going to get it eventually I've come to conclusion I'd rather catch it while enjoying life rather than locking myself away and counting down the hours.

Sensible precautions will help but not guarantee avoidance. There is no such thing as guaranteed avoidance.

If it's here to stay, surely you will be having the same debate next year and subsequent years?

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You know it makes sense.

@kettonskimum, there is some logic to that - but the argument is going to look a bit different to someone who counts as clinically extremely vulnerable.

For what it is worth though, my wife is a grade down (clinically vulnerable on account of a drug which modulates the immune system) and as it turns out, when we both caught Covid off our daughter she got it milder than I did - the situation with Omicron on people who are vaccinated and boosted is pretty optimistic.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I am also CEV due to immunosuppressants - desperate to go skiing and will be off if all goes well in 2 weeks.

I have made the ski holiday as save as possible - will be driving to spain to a resort that shouldn’t be too busy, self catering apartment, bringing a lot of food with us to cook evening meals in and only needing to buy the dairy and meat when we pass the major supermarket. Staying at one hotel on the way down with a take away meal and breakfast in the hotel room. Most of the lifts are chair lifts and only on gondola and that will be with my family. Masks are still to be worn inside in Spain and so that makes me more comfortable too if we chose a restaurant at lunch but hopefully can sit outside.

Had my 4 jab this week so will have maximum effects of vaccine just as we go.

I don’t think we could be much safer to be honest. I am probably more worried about being here with no masks and lack of restrictions than in France and Spain!

It hard - we have had it drummed in a lot about shielding and keeping safe but I have come to the conclusion doing what is reasonably practical to mitigate the risk and live life to the full!

A snowHead

A snowHead

If your consultant has said it’s ok to go, then I would. Life’s too short. Mitigate the risk as much as you can, but who knows what’s round the corner for next season. Enjoy while you can I say, so long as medical advice supports that decision.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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These scenarios all sound like fun discussions with the insurance companies!

Wish you all well in getting some much needed skiing in.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I would think an antibody count blood test would be quite handy to remove a lot of the guessing work?

The whole vaccination business is to rouse up a lot of antibody to fight the virus. And the doubt for immunocompromised is their body may not produce antibody like the rest of the population. So an antibody count would give a more clear indication whether you the specific individual is any more "vulnerable" than the rest of us?

If it turns out your antibody count is as high as to be expected, then go as everyone else. You're at no more risk than others. It's only if your antibody count is low despite all the jabs that you need to go through all those extra precautions (and extra cost)

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Let’s put it this way: We were 9 persons going to Les Arcs in January, and 8 came back with Covid. In your situation I would wait until after peak season is done.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I spent a week in Les Arcs last week, did not come back with Covid...

After all it is free

Lowering risk means waiting until later in the season. I'd think mid to late March myself if possible.

We have done two trips so far this year.

One to Trysil Norway, one to 3 valleys, we did not contract Covid-19 on either. Several of us in group work for the NHS so were extremely cautious as we didn't want to risk having to self-isolate.

Norway was empty and felt really safe, mask discipline was enforced rigorously. The same was true in the hotels which were obviously operating at reduced capacity and felt safe. If you are looking for a safer feeling holiday scandinavia is great. Trysil is biggest of the Norwegian resorts and we had some good skiing, even if the grades are a bit soft.

3V felt a bit more risky, we bubbled with a group in a chalet and did no apres. Different sort of holiday but were just there to ski, not party. At lunchtime we always ate outside and wore FFP2 standard masks on lifts/bubbles/gondolas.

On flights and airport we wore FFP3.

Looking back in hindsight, we thought 3V felt risky, maybe a bit too risky for us. But Norway felt very relaxed and safe.

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We were in the Three Valleys last week of Jan. Four of us in a private chalet, with a host who was masked at all times. Pretty much never had to share a gondola. Wore masks on plane/transfer and in shops, and pulled up buff in lift queues, etc. We were careful but not neurotically so. eg we mostly ate lunch outdoors at the mountain restaurants but did go for a couple of beers at the end of each day at an indoor bar back in resort before returning to chalet, and ate at indoor restaurants on chalet host's days off. Some of us noticed scratchy throats towards the end of week. Did LFTs (negative). Did another test upon return - all four of us positive. From the timing I'd say we picked it up in 3V (as opposed to the flights/transfers). I imagine it was Omicron as this week isolating back in the UK has been fine; I've had far worse colds. But if you absolutely cannot risk catching it, I'm not sure 3V is the place to go right now. Yes - you could eliminate the additional risks we took (avoid apres, self-cater, etc). But you can't stop somebody jumping into your gondola at the last second; the lift queues are not socially distanced; many queuers aren't even pulling up their buffs - and none are putting on proper masks; you probably still have to go into shared indoor spaces (rental store, ski locker rooms, etc); and if you fly don't forget that the airlines are all selling food, so at any given time a decent number of people don't have face coverings on. Net-net: if I was going to 3V now and was determined to avoid infection at all costs, I imagine I'd have a stressful and miserable time and yet still have a decent chance of catching it.

Help!!

Really want to go skiing but extremely vulnerable

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