 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi everyone,
Usually I've always got a transfer to resort but on my upcoming trip I'll be hiring a car for the first time and driving from Lyon to La Tania.
The hire car comes with Winter Tyres so my question is would you suggest I rent snow chains as well? The cost of snow chain hire is an extra £50, from what I understand we could buy snow chains for less. We plan on stopping in Albertville to do a supermarket shop (thinking of the Geant Casino unless you all have another suggestion) and I gather I could buy chains (or snow socks) here. Buying seems less appealing as its tyre specific isn't it? But if its a lot less then....
I've never driven to the mountains before and so less familiar with the different options. I know that winter tyres are very good, my family in Canada switch to these in winter and do very well, I've never seen them need chains. Its only for the last stretch I presume from Moutiers that you get on the windy roads to La Tania. Are snow socks a viable option? Or no better then the winter tyres I'll already be on?
Thanks in advance..... (and be gentle, as I said, my first time driving to resort!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You'll probably get lots of conflicting views on this but for a lowish resort in (?)March I wouldn't bother hiring chains, if you've got winter tyres.
If the forecast looks unusually cold and snowy just before you arrive then, as you say, you could buy some in Albertville. And perhaps even take them back at the end of the week if you don't use them!
The only other risk is that you don't need (or purchase) chains for the drive up but then you need them for departure day. But I would say the risk of this happening is very low, and you can reduce it further by timing your departure carefully.
(Socks - probably not quite as versatile as chains, but better than nothing. Probably wouldn't bother.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have often argued with the "you won't need chains with winter tyres" merchants, because it's not true. However, as @denfinella says, it's unlikely you'll need them. If you are lucky with the weather and big snow is forecast the day you arrive, you could buy some (they are only size-specific, and the tyre's size will be written on it). If your accommodation is up a steep hill at the end, and snowy, there's a chance you won't get up there without chains. If big snow is forecast when you leave (bad luck) you can probably buy locally in resort, but they might be expensive.
If the police are dealing with heavy snow and heavy traffic and insist you put on chains and you haven't got any, you'll have to turn round and go and buy some.
None of these scenarios is particularly terrible, or particularly expensive. It's not like breaking your leg off piste and not having any insurance.
So - there's a risk, yes, but it's a small and inexpensive one. Most of us don't insure against small, inexpensive, risks. But some people are more bothered by that kind of risk than others!
Nobody can give you a definitive answer to your question.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Snow socks seem somewhat useless in my observation, from the numbers one sees by the side of the road.
Mind you, so are cheap chains.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What is the rental car ?
If it's a 4wd with winter tyres the chances of needing chains as well is extremely low. The snow would need to be very deep or on a very steep slope.
I always drive my own car (Audi 4wd estate), with winter tyres with plenty of tread, and I've never had to use chains even in quite deep snow in 20+ trips to the alps in it.
With a 2wd with winter tyres the chances of needing chains is higher but they are still very grippy, there is no comparison to summer tyres which slip around all over the place with the slightest snow.
Each size of snow chains covers a range of wheel/tyre combinations so if you do need to buy some you can always sell them on ebay quite easily or save them for a future trip, they don't only cover single wheel/tyre size.
Edited to mention that some cars are difficult/impossible to fit snow chains if the clearance between the wheel arches and tyre or tyre and suspension struts is limited which is quite often the case with modern cars especially with low suspension. I also have a BMW 1 series with the lower M Sport suspension and fitting snow chains on it is very difficult even when you know what you are doing because the gap between the wheel arch and tyre is very small - best to take some small children with you that have some tiny arms 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 22-02-22 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@JohnS4, We've lived in or near the Alps for 17 years, and have never owned snow chains on AWD with good winter tyres.
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If you need chains then you will need them. However since you talk about shopping on route I suspect you will be arriving at a low resort during the main part of the day, that is not the middle of the night. The probability of needeing chains is very low.
You could do the maths - Let's say the probabilty of needing chains is 0.01 and the cost of buying chains in the resort shop is 50€ then the expected cost is 0.5€, which I suspect is lower than the hire company is charging. . BTW £50 to rent chains is IMHO extortinate.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @JohnS4, We've lived in or near the Alps for 17 years, and have never owned snow chains on AWD with good winter tyres. |
Yeah, I always have chains in the car but never needed them (yet !). You are right too about good quality winter tyres (ie not cheap chinese ones) make a huge difference. And at least 4mm+ or more tread. They don't grip the same once the tread gets low.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Be aware that some vehicles - especially rental SUVs but even mainstream models - can't take chains, because there isn't enough space on the inside of the wheel/tyre for them to rotate safely, without fouling the suspension and brake pipes, and if FWD, steering. Yes, you can buy chains that 'fit' the tyres, but once they start moving you're in trouble. Then when you call the rental company to retrieve the damaged vehicle, they'll tell you that it's your fault - the car wasn't supplied with chains because it can't take them: if you'd specified chains with the rental, you'd have got a different vehicle.
I now never rent SUVs because they usually can't take chains. I just go for a mainstream estate that can. Yes, the odds are that I'll not need them, but if I do, then with a rental SUV I'm likely to be stuck. And in our village, the most common chain event is on leaving day when the steep slope out of the accommodation is deep in snow or icy, and the hire car can't get up it without chains. At which point it's a bit late to buy some (even if they'll fit, which isn't certain).
It's a risk analysis decision: the odds of needing chains are low but the consequences of not having them when needed are serious. The odds are high that chains bought for an SUV or performance AWD will do damage, but the odds of damage from bought chains are low if it's a 'mainstream' car/estate.. So you have to judge whether paying out £50 is worth it to obviate this risk, given the probabilities. Unfortunately, the odds are about 1 in 4 that the rental-supplied chains or supermarket budget ones will be poor quality and may break anyway, so you have to factor that in.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 22-02-22 11:35; edited 3 times in total
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Well (and this gets tedious....) I have spent a lot of time in the Alps, with good winter tyres, and accustomed to the conditions. I generally kept off the roads in snowy, busy, times but once, when I had no choice, required by gendarmes to put chains on. No question at all - but that was in very heavy snow, on a busy Saturday. A family member with rented car, with winter tyres, was also required to put chains on, on another occasion . I have also had to use chains - just for a few hundred yards - to get up a moderately steep hill with the wrong kind of snow falling, and have also chosen put chains on as a precaution to avoid the risk of having to do it in an awkward place. I have, thus equipped, manoeuvred my way round quite a lot of people stopped in stupid places putting chains on, or simply going nowhere and revving the bloody wheels like mad. All in bog standard 2WD car. Obviously a 4WD is a different kettle of fish.
The OP is very unlikely to need chains.
I am not notably risk averse. I sail (cruisers) a lot, I am well aware of the difficulty of picking up a casualty out of the water (done lots of exercises which prove it.....) but don't normally wear a life jacket, or use a lifeline. I am content to take the risk, as I am content to take the risk, having been vaccinated, of catching Covid at the theatre.
Faced with the OP's choice I'd not take the chains. They're probably crap anyway. As are the cheap ones in supermarkets.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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25 years of 3-4 trips a year to relatively high resorts in Switzerland (Sass Fee, Zermatt, Val d'Anniviers etc). Trips have been spread across winter and spring. I can only remember one occasion where chains would have been needed, Feb coming down from Sass Fee. That year, unusually, we were on the bus so it was not an issue for us at all. The odds are extremely low of there being anything that snow tyres can't handle. Probably best to keep an eye on the weather and if a major storm is expected consider your options.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The probabilities thing is hard to judge. This question of 'how likely?' has cropped-up on many threads over the years: for us, over 25 years, it's been about a 1-in-10 chance of needing them - but then, two of those have been when picking people up / dropping them off in the valley in the late afternoon or evening (when there's been less snowploughing going on) at times and in conditions when I would never have ventured out unless it was essential. But for other people over the same number of trips it seems to range from zero to 30% chance - individual experiences are going to vary. It's certainly a low probability, but hard to quantify just how low. And when I've needed chains, I've needed them: we would simply have been stuck without them.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 23-02-22 11:10; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
And when I've needed chains, I've needed them: we would simply have been stuck without them.
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When I've needed chains I'd never have been "stuck" without them, I'd just not have got where I wanted to go, when I wanted to go.
One friend with an apartment in our complex (a cartoon Yorkshireman) set out to drive up the steep mountain road to the village (there was a longer, easier way but it would probably have used at least an extra cupful of petrol). His wife was scared all the way up, and begged him to give up. Eventually he was simply defeated on one one of the final bends (and yes, he did have snow tyres) and he had to drive all the way back down, 10kms, to the Intermarché and buy chains. A Frenchman in the car park took pity when he saw that my friend had jacked up his car and taken the wheel off, to fit the first set of chains. The Frenchman put the chains on the other wheel for him, and showed him the tricks of the trade. They then drove up with no problem but, when he told us the tale the following day, he assured me that the chains he'd fitted were much neater than doing it the "typically lazy French way". His wife was rolling eyes throughout....
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You know it makes sense.
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Thank you everyone for your all your replies and advice
A few more details for those asking: we are renting a Ford Focus (or equivalent) so FWD and I guess 16” or 17” wheels. We’re leaving Lyon at 5pm ish and so likely getting into resort between 8 and 9pm (hopefully including a supermarket stop)
On the way back out flight is at 4pm so we’ll probably leave at 10am to allow 3hours to get to Lyon.
We’re staying in an apartment and there’s underground parking (so hopefully that entrance is straightforward and gets cleared regularly).
Checking the forecast today it looks like it’s snowing this Friday but clear on Saturday so hopefully roads will have been cleared. As people have said, it’s hard to know about weather on the day of departure.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
and gets cleared regularly
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probably so, but unlikely to happen late in the evening. And the entrance to the "underground" parking at our apartment (which had grass on the top, and where French visitors regularly built igloos) was actually up quite a steep hill from the road, because the whole complex was on a steep slope.
And "cleared roads" often have a lot of snow and ice on, of course. But your snow tyres should cope fine with that, unless it's very steep... or you're unlucky. If you need a "bip" to get in, make sure you have it in hand.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Make the call closer to the date based on weather forecast. I always carry chains but never had to use them on very snowy days in Châtel and steep road to our apartment at 1270m. I have a AWD E-class estate with Michelin Cross Climates all seasons. I once rented and upgraded to a Alfa Romeo Stelvio AWD with winter tyres - it did not support chains but found it very sketchy in snow doing down a mountain pass.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Buy snow socks in Halfords packed in a soft plastic case to squeeze in to your luggage - they happily refund them if the pack is unopened and within the 30 day refund policy. Socks fit a wider range of tyre sizes than chains and are accepted by the Gendarmerie as legal instead of chains.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Rashed, If you have never driven to the mountains before, or even on a particular route, you always need to err on the side of caution.
A few years back on the night of 'snowmeggeddon' we drove our Audi Quatro (all season tyres iirc) up to La Tania. The Audi had already got us over 'humps' from Morzine/Les Gets and through Megeve (roads we know reasonably well) but arriving in the early hours with the road up to resort supposedly closed my husband took the decision to put chains on for the last section. We did not know the road. With hindsight we would have been fine without as there was no other traffic around and did not have to stop, the police had obviously gone home for the night! It`s horrid putting chains on in the freezing cold, the dark with snow falling all around, but if the police are there and/or conditions warrant it, you may have to do it. Chances are you won`t, but best to be prepared (which includes practising if poss putting chains on before you are in horrendous conditions).
That been said in all the 40 odd years we have been driving to/through the Alps including with a caravan in tow, I can only think of a handful of time we`ve needed chains.
Hope you have a super trip!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Rashed wrote: |
| The hire car comes with Winter Tyres so my question is would you suggest I rent snow chains as well? The cost of snow chain hire is an extra £50, from what I understand we could buy snow chains for less. |
For £50 I'd say hire them. As others have said you almost certainly won't need them but better to have them and not need them than not have them and be stuck in a lay-by being stopped from going up/down the hill by the police. And having played the "buy them" game this year depanding on the tyre size that can be really easy and cheap or require running around 2 supermarkets and 1 Norauto to find a €95 set to fit your car.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't really see the value of buying snow socks in the UK and taking them out, when the OPs car already has winter tyres fitted. Snow socks turn your summer tyres into winter tyres (up to a point) but if the car already has winters on they don't add anything (unless the fitted tyres are very worn). You'll still need chains for the most extreme conditions - not necessarily a blizzard, but something like an iced-over, steep, bendy drive out of your basement car park. As mentioned, for the sake of £50 on a presumably multi-thousand-pound holiday, I'd rent them and then the issue is dealt with and you can focus on other stuff. Yes, there's only a 1:10-1:20 chance of actually needing them, but that's the nature of insurance, of which chains are a type in a winter vehicle hire.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Rashed, …just a few small things…(we have driven in the Alps for 25 years….)..all winter tyres are not born equal, and although we have never had to use chains on our own cars (due to using Nokians, Continental etc) some hire cars have dreadful and useless winter tyres from little-known producers - although we once had a car with useless, new Michelin winter tyres on…
Re chains….be prepared for some scenarios…
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We have paid the chain hire only to find that we have two sets….one from the desk and another set already in the car. remedy…say ‘Drat’ and move on
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But….we have paid the chain hire and then found they have run out in the GVA office of the hire company.
remedy…agree and get it in writing that you can buy them in a supermarket and get the full money back
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We have paid for the chain hire only to find that the chains aren’t the right ones….
Remedy…always check the chains and be sure that they fit the car - just takes two minutes to look in the manual and then at the chart on the side of the box. If you find this all out on the hill, buy chains and have tricky discussion when you get back to GVA office…
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Take thin gloves that you don’t care about with you somewhere. Your hands will thank you if you need to fit the chains.
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It's always impressive how we Snowheads can go on about snowchains. I am not by nature competitive, but I do confess to having always been pleased with myself when I could get snowchains on faster than anybody else - and with bare hands, which is a lot easier if you're fast enough to do it before your hands freeze. The advice from @valais2, by the way, is well worth reading. All those scenarios are realistic.
Maybe by now the OP is wondering what is so wrong with summer beach holidays. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would hire the chains as £50 doesn’t sound too bad. We paid around £300 to buy chains for our current car! If you buy them from a supermarket you will have the stress of wondering if the size you need will be available. Also if you are flying you won’t have the same flexibility to leave the resort at a time that avoids snow falls.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| Take thin gloves that you don’t care about with you somewhere. Your hands will thank you if you need to fit the chains. |
| pam w wrote: |
| ...with bare hands, which is a lot easier if you're fast enough to do it before your hands freeze. |
From my (very limited) experience I'd side with pam w on this one - with warm gloves you just can't feel what you're doing behind the wheel and with thin latex type ones you're hands still get cold and they always find something to catch and rip on. Much better to go glovless and fast - just put a coat/top on you don't care about getting dirty/maybe grease/tar marked and have a similar towel handy to clean your hands/arms up with after. Oh, and this is very much a job for the passenger, the driver needing to be warm and comfy to safely drive up/down the mountain, so always volunteer to drive the last leg out/first leg home 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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and be aware that reaching behind filthy wheels is really bad for your £500 ski jacket
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Mjit, ….agree that you need the extra dexterity of bare fingers to do the noodly connecting up. But there’s a lot of equipment wrangling to do before you do the small amount of fiddly stuff. And if you lose dexterity in your fingers because they gave gone wooden with cold then that’s bad too.
So….more detail….have some crappy old thin gloves - fleece, wool - which you can use for all the box carrying, fiddling with chains, laying them out, getting them over the tyre and the back of the wheel, and tight etc…then take the gloves off for the connecting bit and then put them on again for the next wrangling bit.
Ah Pam W…the black crap on the jacket problem. Yep. And kneeing in the snow….
we simply have a strong plastic bag with us, stuff it with jacket to kneel on, that keeps your knees warm. And yes, just an old fleece when you are putting your arms around the wheel and getting covered with cack. We have black fleeces for a reason…..
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I always did up my chains and packed them into two separate bags (they never go back in the wee box you buy them in) as their capacity to wrap themselves round each other is exceeded only by earphone leads. Gloves can certainly be useful initially - especially if you have to clear excess snow from behind the wheel (which is where you are going to have to slide the chain). A small child's plastic beach spade is ideal for this.
After you have threaded the chain across the snowy and/or muddy ground behind the wheel, grasp both ends firmly and pull the whole thing vigorously left and right, several times, to ensure everything is free (this bit is omitted from instructions). And when you take them off (often harder as the fixings are all locked solid) do NOT undo the chain across the shoulder of the wheel in the front till you have hoiked up the bit behind and undone the "noodly thing". If the whole thing drops down behind the wheel, before you've done this......
If you pick up a hire car with chains, and are heading out into a snowy night, half an hour spent practising in the ease and comfort of the underground car park is time very well spent. Even after 15 years I always had a dry (and warm) run on my drive at home, before driving down at the start of the season.
Chains are a total pain, for sure. Quite exciting if it's on the way TO resort. But on the way back, after a snowless week, and when you're a bit pushed for time to get to the airport....... 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FAQ
. Instead, I bought some at Geant in Albertville, for €27. I then returned them, unused, at the end of the trip and was given a refund 
