How Difficult is Cross Country Skiing?

A snowHead

My wife and I are both competent downhill skiers. We have the chance to escape the kids (thanks to their grandparents) and sneak in an afternoon of skiing. Where we're staying has a large network of cross country trails which appear to head out into the wild.

The skis look remarkably slim so I wondered whether it's basically the same technique to turn etc.

If we stick to the easier trails, is it similar enough to downhill skiing to not need a lesson? We like the idea of having an afternoon to ourselves so don't really want an instructor along with us!

Any thoughts/advice welcome.

A snowHead

If you're happy to shuffle along on the flat, no problem. If there is any significant downhill gradient you might struggle - depends how bomb-proof your snowplough technique is, but you can always take the skis off and walk. Be prepared to fall over. Don't dress up warm! Or take a backpack to hold the layers you strip off. Make sure you rent classic gear, not skating gear.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@milzibkit, wot @pam w, says.

If it's "classic" - you need the trails to be properly prepped with tracks. If it's skating, you'll spend the afternoon getting up and falling down and travel maybe 10 m. Or you'll give up.

Basically, its only resemblance to downhill is that it's done on snow.

If you are good ice skaters or rollerbladers the learning curve is a little better. But not much.

And - skating anyway - it's incredibly technique dependent. You need an instructor.

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@milzibkit, Mrs Cacciatore and I took up cross country skiing (Langlauf) when we moved to Austria. We do the classic version - long, narrow skis that run in parallel groves cut in the snow. It’s great fun and relatively easy to get to a fairly proficient standard. You tube is a great way to prepare! There are plenty of easy to follow tutorials….which we looked at after our first attempt (which was hilarious fun, trying to balance on these skinny skis, after many years on the normal planks) Laughing

We mostly ski downhill, still, but fairly regularly take to the Langlauf “wilds”. Have fun! And take lots of pics Toofy Grin

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Oh, and totally agree with comments about not overdoing the layers etc….one can get very warm Laughing

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@milzibkit, I tried this for a day some years ago, from a similar position (and with an instructor). Skiing down a short length of piste to get to the start of the cross-country trail wasn't too bad. But then the 'classic' trail, on a narrow track through the forest with a groove cut for each ski, was completely different. Imagine keeping your skis pointing directly forward 100% of the time - both uphill and downhill. Uphill you need to be pretty fit (and as @pam w says, don't over-dress). Downhill it is much more of a challenge to keep in control!

After all it is free

As has been mentioned, Classic Cross Country is best for you and can be learnt / done without an Instructor, so be sure to rent Classic equipment as opposed to Skating gear!

Just be sure to choose a green, flat piste with the grooves cut in, and maybe make sure there are grooves on the other side as well to come back on.

And as has been mentioned, loads of easy to follow instructional videos on YouTube.

With the holidays starting and off-piste touring not brilliant, last couple of days I've been back XC skating, and even though I'm 3 season's in, today I was concentrating on technique with five lots of one km out and then back.

If you cycle or run then wear that clothing, though obviously not shorts Laughing

From my meagre experience (one afternoon) it's nothing like downhill skiing, but can be fun.
Skis are attached only at the toe, controlling them is an art form, even attempting a snowplough is a leap of faith. You probably won't have to if you're sticking to the flat paths/tracks.
Boots are more like shoes and offer no support compared to alpine ski boots, this makes balance tricky. Any sideways movement of the foot is likely to cause the heel of the boot to slip off the ski (only held in place by a small ridge in the heel).
But once you've found your balance it's fun running along in in other peoples tracks. It's very hot and tiring work, and if you do find yourself having to go round a corner, then step turn as you would on skates. This video is pretty helpful, good luck.

sorry wrong link

http://youtube.com/v/SuKn-acPvVk

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Where I learnt, in Les Saisies, the grooved tracks only existed on very gentle downhill gradients. when it got steeper the tracks disappeared as it was suicidal to stay in the tracks! I found that slowing down using a "demi-chasse neige", with one foot in the track and the other (the outside on a bend) out in a snowplough position, was easy to do. Right out of the tracks it was far more difficult - I found out how poor my basic downhill snowplough was. You can do snowplough turns by pressuring alternate skis in the usual way - but the balance is way more difficult. Intermediate downhill skiers like me can become very lazy, just resting on the boots - the gear is so forgiving of sloppy technique. Very different with skinny skis with plastic edges and boots with wobbly ankles. Be prepared to feel like a beginner.

It's a great way to spend an afternoon though.

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This guys YouTube channel is good, even though he is a bit old school he does explain and demonstrate really well both disciplines.

I was viewing them again this morning before I went out!

http://youtube.com/user/k2nicol/videos

Exhibit A

http://youtube.com/v/bNupVJ6cxRc

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On my very first alpine skiing holiday (to Alpbach in Austria, a lovely little resort) on my last day I decided to try Cross-Country skiing and had a 1 hour instruction in the Classic technique, which is all the instruction I've ever had. I found that initially if you are just gently shuffling along on the flat then you'll think to yourself that it's no quicker than walking, the secret is to put a bit of effort each time you move the ski forward (pushing with the opposite side pole) and hold the ski in its forward position so that it then glides some distance before you move the other ski forward. That way you easily cover two or three times the distance you would walking. When it comes to downhill sections then on very gentle downhill sections you can get some braking effect by dragging your poles in the snow behind you, on somewhat steeper sections you need to use the "demi-chasse neige" pam w referred to, i.e keep one ski in the track and step out with the other ski in a half snowplough. Make sure that keep your weight low and forward for an effective snowplough. On uphill sections you may have to herringbone up the slope.

Try it, it's good fun, once you get the hang of getting a glide going.

In answer to your question. Easy, if you're fit.

You know it makes sense.

Yes, that's a good video. You do see quite a lot of people just "walking" and they'd be better off renting some snowshoes, really, When I had lessons we did quite a bit on one ski - just prolonging the glide. Going uphill we were taught to do "petits pas toniques" - but steeper uphill you have to herringbone. "C'est un sport de glisse...ne marche pas" the instructor yelled at us intermittently. Watching good skating skiers pass on the wider tracks was poetry in motion. Some very beautiful bodies to be seen! We sometimes had French champions training alongside us (the instructors knew everybody). Makes for a good (if sometimes discouraging) spectator sport. The boots are super comfy, which is nice.

I found XC skiing very difficult. When I started I was also just starting snowboarding, in my 50s, and I found snowboarding a whole heap easier, with those socking great metal edges.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Thanks for all the replies everyone. It doesn't sound as easy as I'd assumed, so I'm glad I asked now! I had no idea there were classic and skating variants, so very useful to know. I think we will give it a go...but perhaps I won't do the ~20km loop I was eyeing up earlier today.

A snowHead

If my experience is anything to go by, if you do much more than an hour, you will find muscles you didn't know you had. I had to spend an hour in the bath so I could walk again! Might not be the ambience you are hoping to create wink

A snowHead

No, I wouldn't go for a 20 km loop. 5 - 6 kms might be good for a first go, provided it's not got any steep gradients. Do it twice if it's too easy. One advantage of being with an instructor is that they can tell you when to stay in the tracks and just run downhill (which is nice, if your basic balance is OK) and when to slow right down before a bend, or get out of the tracks altogether. Some resorts have long flat circuits in the bottom of a valley, which are easy enough, if a bit boring. But in Les Saisies there were no completely flat circuits. Even the "beginners" circuit had some ups and downs and the red and black tracks had some real scary bits.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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In many areas in the French Alps you would not be allowed to snowshoe in XC areas - there are separate trails for each. Snowshoeing is great - provided you have really strong, waterproof, walking boots (and preferably gaiters if you are going in deep snow, rather than pisted trails). Just use long poles - like XC poles.

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I think skiing is still faster than snowshoeing

Once you found a section of gentle downhill that you can go down casually without need to brake, you’ll be hooked!

After all it is free

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@abc, are. you. serious?

my points were mostly about skating an I stand by them ...

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The greatest endurance sports"persons" on the planet are biatholon atheletes. They need to run a marathon, while keeping their heart rate slow enough to shoot targets at range.

A snowHead

A snowHead

As everyone said above anyone able to walk or alpine ski should have no issue with XC classic. Enjoying it is another matter, but definitely worth trying for a day.

However for XC skating... either invest time or give it a pass. I'm a fairly competent inline skater (years of London street skating), and still am useless with XC skating. Obviously some of the technique transfers, but there's more to learn, other moves, including the poles - it's tiring. Which makes it tiring and fun, but not something to try for a day, you'll just be gutted.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

For classic, the progression technique can best be explained in terms of "gears", like a car. The lowest gear is used for the steepest uphill, the highest gear for cruising
1) Herringbone
2) "Diagonal" each pole works in time with the opposite ski
3) Double pole with a "kick" from one ski at the end of the stroke
4) Double pole only

When double poling your stomach muscles do a lot of the work. The key to effective wovement is to (a) get as much glide from the skis as you can and (b) to be able to change gear smoothly. Note that in gear 2 you often struggle with gliding backwards as it gets a bit steeper. Take shorter steps and drive your feet into the snow to get grip.

This all works fine, but going down hill is trickier. As already stated, keeping one ski in the track and ploughing with the other is the basic techniqe. If it gets steeper you need to double plough and with no fixed heel and skinny skis this is hard for the uninitiated. Where it gets really trickly is going around a corner downhill. If it's not too steep you can just relax and let the tracks take you round. If you need to steer, the best tactic is to put your weight on the inside ski, which allows you to get your outside ski out of the track and plough. It's this need to commit to the inside ski which totally blindsides a lot of alpine skiers. As things get trickier you get to "step around" the turn, but now we are beyond beginner stuff.

The best skis to use as a beginner are those with built in skins. I have both skis with skins and waxable skis and and I use the ones with skins a lot more. It's just much less hassle. Fishscales are ok (I have that on backcountry skis) but you do loose a bit of glide.

I should add that I live in Sweden, so I get a reasonable amount of chance to practice. I get burned off by 10-years olds but since they start when they are about 3 that's no disgrace....

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@patrick!, yep. we had lessons for the first few skate sessions, both having been quite keen inline skaters. One instructor said we'd take an extra week to get where we were without the inline experience.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I moved on quickly to skating from Classic, seem to recall there were a few posters (in this thread) that were mildly cynical of that at the time Toofy Grin

It's something you can only really learn if you live in resort (and are fit) or close-by to XC areas and are willing to give up piste skiing or even ski-touring in my case, so if you're only out for a week's holiday and fancy XC then Classic is the way to go.

I've had three or four lessons in the three or so years I've been doing it, even yesterday I was following a very good skater and I apologised for sticking to him but I explained I was watching "his" very good technique, if it was a fit-looking female in Lycra don't think I could have got away with that Laughing

He was really good and helped by calling out pole ski, pole ski etc

Day before yesterday I actually set up my GoPro 360 and filmed myself so I could see my technique, or lack of it, and that really helped, so that yesterday I set up two Strava segments of one km going out and a return km so I could afterwards evaluate my times and more importantly, HR as my aim with better technique is to reduce my HR and still maintain my speed. So that was out and back 5 X making a total of 10km, not exactly taking in the scenery but one could feel the skis working better and better and that feeling is as good as taking in the scenery, but certainly not everyone's cup of tea!

So that's how anal you can get when it comes to skating, very similar to trying to achieve a good swimming technique, definitely not for everyone!

I often see the local XC clubs out with children/juniors doing intervals / fast climbing exercises drilling the technique home.

Strava is really good, as a high % of skaters use it I'd estimate judging by the numbers on it and for me I can drill down a view results by age, I'm fast on gliding sections with a negative gradient, but any segment that's uphill I'm way down the pecking order, plus sometimes I might have a tailwind and that reflects in fast times achieved, but heyho I had to skate into the wind initially!

For the above segment for everyone, I'm 56th out of 424 which is not too bad given my age and experience.

My main issue is that whilst I'm quickish I've obviously developed bad technique, and I sort of have a mixture or alternate V1 / V2 switching between different stride patterns, but it does seem to work sometimes!

But when I see a video, I'm certainly not looking too cool like the guys you see Laughing

This season I've taken advantage of the pre-season XC lift pass that gives me access to some ridiculous amount of XC areas in the Alpes du Sud region.

Just take a look at this site and what activities they promote

https://www.nordicalpesdusud.com/

This morning I see there's a nagging headwind blowing down the valley, so I'm driving round to the next valley where more often than not it's not windy, and I might even appreciate a change of scenery Laughing

https://www.nordicalpesdusud.com/domaines/val-des-pres-les-alberts

And a special mention to @davidoff, as he trains classic right through the Summer on roller-skis!

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@Weathercam. Very different conditions to what I am used to! Flat, straight and wide. Most of the tracks where I live are only about 4m wide between the trees, with a classic track on one side and a strip just wide enough for skating. They twist and turn through the trees and there is a lot of up and down (about three times the elevation gain in 10km compared to your Strava data). Crashing is a bit more serious because you are quite likely to hit a tree.... What I find hardest is the continual changes in tempo and resultant gear changing required. Somehow I am always in the wrong gear or loose rhythm changing. I have never dared try skating on those tracks, maybe I should find somewhere easier to give it a go.

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Poor OP. Got buried in all the advance technique talk in skating! Toofy Grin

After all it is free

I tried it in Norway 4 years ago and found it frustrating. I'm a reasonably competent downhiller and thought XC would be easy. Not so. We had a lesson and did part of a proper XC trail but I couldn't turn to save my life. Came down heavily on a shoulder more than once. We had a go in the afternoon on our own but were really struggling and gave up. It was a relief to return to downhill the day after. I found it extremely difficult to hold even one ski in a snowplough - they just don't bite like a downhill carving ski does so I was all over the place like a downhill beginner. Maybe I'd get it eventually if I lived in a XC area.

It was annoying because we liked the quiet, still environment of a XC trail. But I doubt I'll try it again. I hope the OP does better than we did! It must be a great thing to master.

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How Difficult is Cross Country Skiing?

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