 Poster: A snowHead
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I sold my old skis prior to the season just departed and hired a few different types over the winter to see what I like before shelling out again.
What I am looking for is a ski that will handle most conditions - I ski mainly on piste at present but looking to venture further afield.
From those I tried, I liked the Bandits, both B3s and B2s and although I liked the B3s for the soft stuff, the B2s were better where I spend more of my time. I really wanted to try K2s Apache Crossfires but for one reason or another I could not find a pair the right length available to try and do a 'back to back'
So to the question, has anyone skiied on both B2s and Crossfires over the past season and if so I'd be interested in your thoughts 
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I haven't skied on either unfortunately. But thge b2 bandits are one of the most popular Punter skis. It all depends on what you want the skis to do and your snow experience and your size. An apache crossfire is more of a piste carver than an all mountain ski (B2) also you would probably find the crossfire considerably stiffer flexing. I think once you explain what you want the skis for, how good a skier you are and your size and weight, some recommendations could be made. the performance of a crossfire would probably be more considerable on piste than the bandit. As the bandit is so popular I'm sure this post will be awash with experiences.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SHello, ............i thought you were going to talk about motorbikes 
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Edmundh009, I ski everything on piste in good conditions although I'm not exactly graceful when it comes to moguls. I've been playing around 'linking up' the bits between the pistes and seeking out easily accessable areas the last few trips but my technique in the soft stuff is dodgy at best. The B3s were great in this stuff as they made me look better than I really am 
I am a lardy and tend to ski on the aggresive side so I prefer a stiff ski - that's why I am interested in finding out more about the Crossfire
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Look at the head Im77,
K2 apache recon (more like the badit in terms of versatility than the crossfire)
Volkl Ac3
Dynastar legend 4800 or 8000 perhaps (maybe too much ski)
Brits have become obsessed with b2 bandits as it is a name they are familiar with. The otehr skis mentioned are more performance orientated and will reward if pushed. Plus the bandit has a foam core which suggests they may not last quite as long.
Check out realskiers.com and ski-review.com
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I would always go for the one with the wooden core - it will perform as well for you on day 30 as day 1, which many foam cored skis cannot
I'm preparing to be shot down over this....
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| Quote: |
Brits have become obsessed with b2 bandits as it is a name they are familiar with
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I know. I despair.
They really are the Ford Escorts of skis. No offence to Ford Escort owners, but B2 ski owners always seem to want to do more than a Ford Escort was really built for.
<puts on tin hat>
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veeeight, But it's a bit like motorbikes - most models on the market will potentially way outperform the person riding them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Scarpa, how is the Speed Triple? But back to the subject; I agree that as technology moves on at a pace us poor mortals do not and that applies to skis, motorcycles, PCs etc. etc.
I really don't give a toss what the ski is called or who it is made by - it has to do what I need it to do and sod any perceived image, good or bad.
If any ski tests are arranged over the summer (there is talk but nothing firm as yet) I will hopefully get to make up my own mind. But until then, I'm reliant upon those who have tried the skis for feedback.
Pretty much like buying a new bike, we read the reviews, ask our mates but ultimately it is the test ride that decides it. What the reviews and mates comments do is provide the first filter and help reduce the actual number of test rides to a realistic number
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This season I skied the B2s and the Recons. B2 for a week, Apaches for 2.
I thought the 05/06 B2s were going to be the biz, and enjoyed then hugely, albeit my mates on 04/05 B2s got a lot better 'travel' - could have been rental bases, could have been weight, but whatever, I spent most of the time poleing after them on the flats. But, "fit and forget" is a good way of describing them - no fuss no worry, just enjoy the day on the slopes.
The following month, couldn't get any, so tried the Recons. Very short in this case, all they had was 161cm ( I am 183cm, 85kg) - and so was a little worried - I know we are all supposed to go small , but surely this was a step too far? - Said I'd give a go and swap them if they didn't work.
But they were fantastic. Moguls were a dream, (I do love a good mogul field) the park was great fun. Pistes were fairly well powder covered and they did everything I wanted and expected - and more than capable of coping with changing underfoot conditions as some of the fresh stuff scraped off: hence gave me confidence in some fairly 'orrible visibility on occasions.
Not a lot of ice sheets to fully test edge grip, (shame...) but despite that (well, you can hardly expect to try every condition) I am looking to buy a pair , probably slightly longer to give me some extra surface area for float in the powder, poss the 167s. But if there were only 161s to have, I wouldn't be adverse.
In retrospect, the B2s were possibly a little 'soft' by comparision. But obviously, its each to their own, otherwise there would be a single ski we all agreed on.
I haven't tried a vast range I admit, but hey, these Recons do it for me. And I agree SHello, reading this site is a great first filter to apply to an otherwise impossibly long list. Without some first cut, you spend all your time trying, and no time enjoying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I got to test a number of ski's this year but not the B2's. I did however get on some K2s Apache Crossfires and out of the 6 I tried they were the ones I will buy next time out.
I'm an on piste with the occasional lostmyway so i'm off piste now skier  (Or I Just follow Kramer, )
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| veeeight, But it's a bit like motorbikes - most models on the market will potentially way outperform the person riding them. |
Yup. Agree.
However, with the B2's, I would say that for those who really want to improve their technique, I woud suggest that the B2's would hold them back. Not stiff enough torsionally (can't hold an edge in hardpack), as lifeless as a doornail (won't learn to harness the ski energy to rebound from one turn to the next) yada yada yada.
Great for recreational skiers, but if you want to up your game technically, change skis.
There. I've said it, got it off my chest. No more now.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Scarpa wrote: |
| veeeight, But it's a bit like motorbikes - most models on the market will potentially way outperform the person riding them. |
Yup. Agree.
However, with the B2's, I would say that for those who really want to improve their technique, I woud suggest that the B2's would hold them back. Not stiff enough torsionally (can't hold an edge in hardpack), as lifeless as a doornail (won't learn to harness the ski energy to rebound from one turn to the next) yada yada yada.
Great for recreational skiers, but if you want to up your game technically, change skis.
There. I've said it, got it off my chest. No more now. |
Hmmmm. I ski on B2s.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kramer, Well you could always put the counterpoint, about how B2's have a rock solid edge on ice, and maybe how you can power the tails out of the turn....and stuff like that....
Then again......
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowbunny wrote: |
Kramer, Well you could always put the counterpoint, about how B2's have a rock solid edge on ice, and maybe how you can power the tails out of the turn....and stuff like that....
Then again...... |
Not exactly ideal for a steep, technical, icy slalom course imho, but probably perfect on a flattish, non-technical, soft course over unbashed overnight snow late April 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SHello, Your and my needs for a ski sound similar. If you can try a Head xrc they are simialr to a B2 but a litle stiffer, I think. I skied on them at Christmas and they were excellent, as were the B3's at Easter!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Scarpa wrote: |
| veeeight, But it's a bit like motorbikes - most models on the market will potentially way outperform the person riding them. |
Yup. Agree.
However, with the B2's, I would say that for those who really want to improve their technique, I woud suggest that the B2's would hold them back. Not stiff enough torsionally (can't hold an edge in hardpack), as lifeless as a doornail (won't learn to harness the ski energy to rebound from one turn to the next) yada yada yada.
Great for recreational skiers, but if you want to up your game technically, change skis.
There. I've said it, got it off my chest. No more now. |
I've been skiing the 2005 B2s for a while now and, to be honest, that's not how I find them at all. However they do need to be worked the whole time to get the best out of them. I've never had a problem with edge hold on hardpack, in fact I loved the way they handled the hard, steep pistes that I found in Keystone this year. First turns were a little scrapy but once I cranked my boots and upped my effort level they were great and I felt very surefooted the whole time. I really enjoyed pushing them to see if I could get them to break away, they didn't. True, the rebound isn't as great as on some of the skis I've skied in the past but, again, if you really work them they give it back to you.
That said, I expect I'll trade up to something else once I get back from my Argentina trip. Currently thinking about the Rossi 9x TI Oversize or the 9x world cup (depending on how brave I feel!). Anyone got any thoughts on those or similar? Ideally, after Argentina, I'd like to start some race training to see if I can get the euro test under my belt sooner rather than later - I'm not getting any younger and I should be at peak fitness after 2 months in Argentina...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SHello, hi I have skied the crossfires for two seasons now and find them great, I am ageing expert, (ex freestyler back in the day when it was still called hotdogging) (47) 13 stone and 5 11 tall.
I went for the 181 crossfire as I do like the deep stuff as well as the piste. On Piste wow great ski, very fast, and very stable, last season I was easily out running the French racers on the GS course on their rossis race skis. In the deep with the extra length they were good, however watch out when you slow down, as the stiffness can catch you out, I did have a couple of great forward falls in the pow when the gradient flattened out and the snow got tooo deep !!!!!. Only other things to watch out for with the crossfire is you do have to work them at slow speed, can be hard work at the end of the day.
I found hard, icey stuff no probs at all, and in the moguls they were great as the edge to edge speed is very quick just wish I was fit enough to keep up with the skis!
The power out of the turn with the crossfire is really cool in a word super all round ski that can ski the pow if your technique is up it it.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| The 2006/7 iXRC1400 Chip |
I've only skied this one in slalom-like length (163cm for ~13m radius, Quebec January conditions, 200lbs). I was very happy with its versatility, particularly in bumps and wet snow but it would certainly carry speed; is there a good reason to try it longer?
(It's the next RX8/6* IMHO)
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| comprex wrote: |
| veeeight wrote: |
| The 2006/7 iXRC1400 Chip |
I've only skied this one in slalom-like length (163cm for ~13m radius, Quebec January conditions, 200lbs). I was very happy with its versatility, particularly in bumps and wet snow but it would certainly carry speed; is there a good reason to try it longer?
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Longer = More stability at high speed. This ski does not chatter at Mach Chicken
PS. Are you sure you ski'd the 2006/7 version? Next years?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, Buy some Stoecklis, no chatter at any speed....
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I have B2s -the 2004-2005 model.
I skied the Crossfire courtesy of 'Fall Line' at an event that cannot now be mentioned by name, for fear of upsetting people.
The previous years Crossfires had been highly recommended in 'Ski and Board' magazine.
My feeling, for what it is worth, was that I prefer my B2s. If I wanted a ski with a 68 waist I would take a Volkl 5 star instead, which was also a very good ski I might add.
If you want a stiffer ski with a wider waist, I liked Dynastar Legend 8000 and Volkl AC4s
I should stress that is only my opinion and I would recommend you try the two skis for yourself. I appreciate that may be difficult, as K2s are not that readily available to test.
You will always find people to give their view on a particular ski, or knock a big seller; but remember, YOU are the one that will be skiing on them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scarpa, just get some fat skis, ski on them all the time and be done with it
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You know it makes sense.
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This was one of the first things that I asked the guys at Peak Leaders and they said that for the conditions in Argentina they should be fine and that others have had no problems passing on B2s in previous years... If I have trouble I'll get something to replace them when I'm out there... Any suggestions?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is this Foundation, 3, or both?
You'll be fine with the B2's, but may struggle with some of the more performance orientated tasks.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 7-06-06 17:40; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Len Holgate, which course are you doing? If it's the BASI 3 you should be ok on B2s. They spend a lot of time having you do railway track style carved turns so something with a shorter radius might be a bit easier. But on the other hand, you also have to do moguls, steeps and mixed snow so if I were you, I'd choose a ski which helps most with the discipline you are worst at
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's BASI 3. I'm comfortable on the B2s in all situations and if I find that they're lacking for performance stuff then I expect I'll just try some other skis whilst I'm there and get something more suitable.
Thanks for the advice guys!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| veeeight wrote: |
PS. Are you sure you ski'd the 2006/7 version? Next years? |
Yep, skied the '05 (orange) and '06 (red) back-to-back.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In April I skied the B2, Scott Aztec Pro and Head M82 (all 2006/2007). I'd go for the Aztecs; much livelier in every aspect than the B2s, not that the B2s were particularly bad at anything
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I wish this had been posted a few months back. I always find it hard to remember the exact lengths I tried, but here goes...
I skied on B2s, B3s and Apache Recons last season (plus something else which I can't recall at the mo') - I agree with Edmundh009 that the Recon sounds more like what you're after than the Crossfire, at least in theory.
I think the B2s and B3s were both around the mid-170s mark and I tried the Recons in a 167 and 174 (possibly!). I'm about 5'11'' and 12 stone.
I had the most fun on the B3s but I was lucky with the snow conditions - they may be slightly too wide for piste skiing (short turns at least), although I still found them pretty manageable once I'd adjusted to them. The B2s were fine I thought - nothing about them made me want to rush out and buy a pair but I found they did everything I asked of them. I've never really understood the disdain some people seem to have for them. Maybe they just haven't learnt to ski them properly 
The 167 Recons were OK. The shortist ski I've ever used, they turned very easily and were pretty good in bumps, as you might expect. However, they were lacking something for me - hard to put into words, but they just didn't give me enough back. The 174s on the other hand were much better - I didn't get to ski any powder but they were great on anything else I threw them at.
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SHello,
To reiterate, you are the one that ends up skiing on your choice.
There is always some c*** that thinks they know it all, as can be seen from the above responses.
I suggest that you make a shortlist, test them and then make your own mind up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
There is always some c*** that thinks they know it all, |
In some cases there are some c*** that know it all, as it's their job. 
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Now there's a coincidence.
Both you and Charlotte easiski have the same opinions about B2s, veeeight, so perhaps there's something in it. My view of my B2s is that they are very forgiving, which encourages me into bad habits, and then they don't perform as well as they should on hard pack for instance, however if you get your technique sorted (thank you Charlotte!), they do perform a lot better.
I do wonder whether if I got something with a bit more perfomance, I would miss the cruisiness of the B2s though?
Actually, I'm seriously considering moving to a significantly fatter ski anyway, possibly a B3 or Head Monster.
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FAQ
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