 Poster: A snowHead
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Bit of a different one this, it will feature no skiing at all despite relating to the PSB. The PSB itself needs no intro and I'm not daft enough to try to live blog it. What is a bit different is that I'll be getting there mostly by train, rather than flying. I've been toying with the idea of doing an Alps trip by train for a couple of years, primarily because of the environmental impact of flying, and I've finally decided to put my money (and time) where my mouth is. What's interesting about that, I hear you ask? Well, maybe nothing, but then again I'm starting from Gothenburg in western Sweden so the ~2000km journey is a little more involved than just getting on the Eurostar to Paris then swapping to a TGV for the journey south.
I know the journey itself is pretty irrelevant for most snowHeads but hopefully it'll give some insight into what is possible in terms of alternative travel, how relaxing or stressful it is (missed connection fear - well, I have a few of those to worry about) and where the compromises are.
I'll add more details to a later post, but as a starter here's the basic route:
Gothenburg-Copenhagen-Hamburg-Basel (this leg is overnight on a sleeper). Then it would have been a couple of extra trains to get to Geneva and meet up with the lardy bus at the airport, with most of the other PSBers. But @Gämsbock is driving from Basel so I've opted to beg a lift for that part of the journey. I'll show what I would have done without this kind offer though, to complete the (slightly crazy) route. The return journey is just a reverse of the way out.
To compare, my usual route to Geneva is to fly Lufthansa via Frankfurt or Munich. This time around, the best flight options would be via Zurich, and cost around £200 as of today. Add about £40 for airport parking plus a fiver of fuel, and that's the cost baseline. The trains will cost more, that is for sure.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mgrolf, looking forward to following this  !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fair play to you. I will watch this with interest. I too have decided to ditch the plane in favour of the train this season. My trips will be somewhat easier that yours though! I’m only an hour by train (from my village, literally a 5 min walk from my front door) to London Paddington.
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Good on you mgrolf. A few years ago now my Rugby Tour friends and myself did: South Wales-Paris-Milan-Florence-Rome by train for the Wales France and Wales Italy internationals which were on consecutive weekends it was an excellant trip unfortunately we flew home from Rome.
I hope this year to be able to do 1 ski trip by train but it does take a bit of planning and being retired the time constraints are easier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@mgrolf, That's a good effort! I'm going to do the PSB by train, but from Brighton it's much easier - I reckon only a couple of hours longer than Geneva and Lardybus, although annoyingly rather more expensive...
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@PaulO78, what's your route? When I started looking, the awkward bit was the final couple of hours into the mountains, and it made sense to go to Geneva and meet the bus.
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@mgrolf, Brighton - St Pancras; St Pancras - Paris GdN; Paris GdL - Chambery; Chambery - Bourg St Maurice. The last leg is pretty slow, 2 hours from Chambery to Bourg.
Going Paris to Geneva and meeting the bus might actually have been easier (though would have meant an early start), but for various reasons I'm going Friday to Friday.
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So, finally found some time to add a bit more detail on the journey, costs and practicalities.
Outbound, I leave Gothenburg at 10:30 on Friday 3 December. It takes just under 3.5 hours to get to Copenhagen. I booked this leg via the Swedish train site (SJ) which is simple and straightforward as I use it regularly. Cost 347 SEK or approx £29. The next leg is Copenhagen to Hamburg; for this I used the German site Bahn.de (which helpfully has an English language option). 4.5 hours direct to Hamburg, €33.90. This one was a bit more frustrating as I had to search the journey, pick the train (including the price) and only then did it ask for my age - taking me back to the search page where a "passenger age" box had magically appeared. I'm too old for young people's railcards and too young for pensioner savings so that just confirmed that the price originally shown, without any discount, was the right price. Grrr. Otherwise though, payment in euros with my Swedish bank card worked, and the ticket booked.
Next up, the Austrian site for the nightjet from Hamburg to Basel. €79.90 got me a saver ticket on the 20:50 train, arriving at 07:20 on Saturday morning. That includes a bed in a 4 berth couchette, a simple breakfast and not much else - all I need, more expensive options including single sleeper cabins were available. Booking was simple enough. So up to this point, it's cost me £125. I need to add £2 for the bus & tram from home to the station, and my share of the fuel from Basel. But its actually pretty comparable to flying, which surprises me.
Now the not-so-good. When I first tried to book, at the end of September, most of the timetables didn't run beyond the winter changeover. This is helpfully the last day of the PSB and so I couldn't see or book any trains home. The Austrian operator ÖBB replied to my query to confirm this was the case, and that I should wait for the revised timetables to be released, without indicating when that would be. Helpful. However, by the time they replied to my second query (basically asking roughly how long that would take), the new timetable was available and I could book the return overnight from Basel to Hamburg. But Deutsche Bahn also have a timetable change - and their new timetable wasn't released, so I had to leave the Hamburg-Copenhagen bit unbooked (and also the final leg home, as I didn't know what time I'd get to Copenhagen). A week or so later, I could book that part. This time though, it took multiple attempts over 2 days because bahn.de wouldn't accept my Swedish card and kept crashing at the payment stage. Eventually I gave up and used PayPal which is daft when I can in theory pay in euros directly from my bank card, but hey ho.
The other complex part is how many sites I had to use. SJ won't book through beyond Copenhagen. Deutsch Bahn wouldn't book from Gothenburg on the way out, but will book all the way through on return. Bizarre. The nightjet was only bookable via the Austrian site, which wouldn't book any other leg. And the Swiss site would take me the last leg to Geneva (2 trains, 3 hours, about £20) but not to Bourg-Saint-Maurice. SNCF would do Geneva-BSM for another £29 and 4.45 hours with a change at Chambery. No site (including the likes of trainline.com) was able to do the whole booking. Trainline could do Gothenburg to Geneva, but only on the normal seating part of the overnight train which isn't my idea of comfortable travel.
All in all, I reckon the journey will be OK but the booking process was a faff!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well, the plan was to add some more detail here in the weeks before the trip, but work got in the way and then all hell broke loose for the PSB as Switzerland responded to omicron.
It's fair to say that I've been mostly spared the nightmare that many are (still) suffering; being an EU citizen makes life a lot easier. But Denmark is on Switzerland's naughty list and whilst in theory I don't need to do anything extra ( I'm only passing through Denmark) I will be getting a LFT at the station tomorrow before I leave, just in case anything changes whilst I'm travelling. 395 SEK for peace of mind isn't too bad.
Of more concern is the weather here: snökaos overnight last night in southern Sweden, so I'm just hoping that I can get out of Gothenburg and down to Copenhagen. It would be very frustrating to fail at the first hurdle. If I'd been travelling today, that's exactly what would have happened. It's snowing again now, but it looks like it'll ease off in a couple of hours so I'm optimistic. Until then, I've got the drive to clear (again) in the morning before taking mini_mg to school. And then the journey begins.
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@mgrolf, Good luck !!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mgrolf, good luck! I just got on the first of my four trains to get to the PSB. Very impressed at the idea of doing it all the way from Sweden.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well, that was a good(?) start. Another 15 cm of snow overnight meant the usual 45 minute school run turned into a 90 minute epic. I got up early, cleared the drive and mini_mg did a sterling job on the car so we left bang on time. Initially, the only problem was the gentle scrape of snow on the underside of the car. Once on the main roads, that disappeared and all was well until we ground to a halt two thirds of the way into the city. Stuck in a long queue of cars trying to get off the dual carriageway, we couldn't see the problem but it seemed likely to be a blockage going up the hill towards the Sahlgrenska hospital. The tram tracks share the road there. Tram + hill + snow = problems, so after 10 minutes of no movement we bailed and headed further in to the city to come around from the other side. That turned out to be a good decision - mini_mg was 15 minutes late, but as she got to school a couple of her friends messaged to say they were on 2 different buses to next to each other, stuck exactly where we'd been 20 minutes earlier.
Driving home, the reason became clear: a lorry loaded up with concrete wall sections was stuck on the hill, with a tram stuck next to it. No way anything was getting past that in a hurry!
So, instead of having an hour or so to sort out last minute packing, I had enough time at home to make lunch and persuade mrs_mg that driving me to the station was better than a tram! In short, repeat the school journey experience except that I arrived with 5 mins to spare for the LFT I'd booked as an insurance against changes in travel rules (I don't think I need one, but it's not 100% clear).
From there, all I needed to do was find the test centre. There were Västtrafik staff handily placed at the entrance so I asked for directions - simple. But wait, no sign of the testing centre, and navigating a crowded bus and train station with ski kit is not so simple. It's fair to say I'm not the biggest, strongest bloke around and kit plus 2 sets of skis plus a small laptop bag is a fair weight for me to manage. For some reason, people don't seem to understand the idea that walking straight across in front of a person carrying a long ski bag isn't a good idea?! Anyway, time was passing, no sign of the test centre so that one's gone.
Luckily the train was on time, and despite the lines of people with suitcases and minimal luggage racks (2 proper racks per 80 seat carriage) I found space for my skis. First hurdle overcome, next stop Malmö. The chance of getting to Tignes as planned has gone up from small to middling (small). I'd post a picture of western Sweden blanketed in snow, but the train windows are filthy so I can't.
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@PaulO78, likewise, hope your connections work out. My faff is at the start, yours in the middle/end so fingers crossed for the Paris transfer working out. I have bad memories from about 6-7 years ago, getting stuck in a metro gate that closed on my ski bag in the evening rush hour. I literally had people climbing over me to get past (rather than helping me to get out) and when I finally got free, the gate had claimed my watch as a toll.
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You know it makes sense.
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Good luck !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mgrolf, great thread. Looking forward to following your (and @PaulO78) journey. Triggering fond memories of my Prague-Geneva train trip to the 2019 PSB.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Fascinating TR. Please do keep it up 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mgrolf, Thanks! Yes I have two tight connections in Paris and Chambery, so fingers crossed. No skis with me though - I wouldn't fancy taking those through the metro without a mate to help.
Almost failed at the first hurdle this morning - no taxis to get to the station!, so my wife had to give me a lift (fine of course, but slightly rubs in the fact that I'm going skiing on my own...).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@PaulO78, tell me about it. I am not the most popular person at home, even though both of my girls want me to go (it will really improve my mental well-being and I'll stop being a grumpy almost-old man). Leaving them behind in the snökaos is not good timing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is essentially me:
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it will really improve my mental well-being and I'll stop being a grumpy almost-old man
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Loving this! Surely there is a makret there for a train travel consolidator like Skyscanner (Railscanner)?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Red sky in the morning...
We're not first on the snowplough schedule
Snowy countryside
None of these pictures really capture how much snow we've had in the past 36 hours. Must be about 40cm so far which is a lot for us on the west coast.
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Brilliant effort, @mgrolf. I'd have left my skis behind. Looking forward to the next instalment.
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@pam w, one benefit of taking the train is being able to bring two sets of skis without worrying whether the airline will complain. It comes with the downside that whilst my off piste skis are quite light, the pistey pair are considerably more substantial.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| FrediKanoute wrote: |
| Loving this! Surely there is a makret there for a train travel consolidator like Skyscanner (Railscanner)? |
Wouldn’t TheTrainLine like to claim that title at least for a bit of Europe?
I don’t like using them though , they charge fees for some UK travel when if you went direct to the operators website to book you wouldn’t get charged and once their app let me down and I had to buy another train ticket on the day, they refunded the original ticket as it was one that could but tried to keep an admin fee. An admin fee for their stuff up? A complaint to my credit card company sorted that out.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 3-12-21 12:09; edited 1 time in total
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None of the sites like trainline could book me all the way through. The Sweden leg was a problem, and also the Nightjet from Hamburg into Switzerland. I've not chosen the quickest connections either, I've tried to allow time for delays where I can. It can be tricky to get a consolidator to pick trains that have a 30 minute gap rather than say 7 minutes.
Theoretically i might get some protection from a single booking (e.g. transferring onto later trains if required) but practically, if I miss one train I'm really struggling anyway so I prefer to keep options open. If the Copenhagen train is delayed, I'll look at flights from there. I also don't expect that a consolidator site would be much use in Hamburg at ten in the evening - I'd be relying on my own initiative and non-existent German to rebook anyway.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mgrolf, I've crossed Paris with skis, and slept with them in my bunk on the sleeper - but that was in my young and strong days. I hope you have lots of good books to read.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've got a few to keep me going
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You know it makes sense.
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First train is gradually losing time so it looks like I might miss my connection in Lund. Fortunately I've got a couple of hours to spare so it doesn't really matter.
Slightly bizarrely, Helsingborg station appears to be underground so it feels like evening now!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This is great, I love a long train journey. Hope it all goes well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well, first leg complete with only a slight delay. Next train (to Copenhagen) is about 35 mins late so I'm about to "enjoy" a station cafe burger. Might as well get something hot now, then I can rest my sandwiches on the train to Hamburg.
Much less snow here, and it's trying to rain.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just need a nice bottle of Red on the table to make it perfect!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Surprisingly paletable
Minor panic nr 1. I was monitoring my next train via the SJ app, so i knew it was coming in about 15 mins. Plenty of time to use the toilet, finish up and check the platform hasn't changed. I gathered up my bags and started to leave the cafe, at which point the older gentleman by the door starts to talk to me. Not wanting to be rude, I explain (in jättebra svenska) that i don't really understand what he's saying. So he switches to English and asks me if I'm going to play golf. At this point I notice an Øresundståg at the right platform, going to Købnhavn. Cue mad dash through the cafe with 2 bags plus skis, to see the guards about to close the doors. "Copenhagen?" - "yes" - "train 1059?" - "no, we're the 1061". Ok, so not my train. Check the app, now it shows my train leaving Malmö which is 2 stops further down the line. Left Lund 5 mins ago.
Something didn't quite add up, so I left the heavy bags and dashed down to the departures boards at the other end of the platform (why are they always at the other end). This shows my train due in a couple of minutes, not yet gone. Sure enough, there's a train approaching, but that turns out to be going to Trelleborg, on the south coast. Check the board again, still saying my train is coming, and a few minutes later it does.
That's good, until it pulls into Malmö and is cancelled for being too late. Next train comes in to a platform across the station, so that's more mileage with the bags and now I'm with 2 trains' worth of passengers waiting for the next one to come.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@mgrolf, omg that sounds more than a bit stressful! Hope you’ve managed to get on a train to Copenhagen.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All ok so far, i still have about 30 minutes of spare time (predictive text made that disaster time  ) and I'm on the next train so I should be fine on this leg. I have room for one more delay, then I'm on plan B.
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@mgrolf, enjoying seeing this pan out.
I'd love to get the train to the alps, and it's a much shorter trip from Bristol are of the UK than your trip, I'm yet to get it particularly close to flight and transfer in terms of cost. Perhaps 22/23 is the year!
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@swskier, i was surprised how cheap it worked out this time - basically the same cost as flying to Geneva. That is a bit biased because Gothenburg didn't have many cheap flights, but still, the cost (once parking etc is added in) is pretty comparable. Of course, the hidden "cost" is my time - I'm taking an extra days holiday, and getting back a day later.
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And a quick update from Copenhagen: made it here with 45 minutes to spare. Now I am waiting for the next train to turn up, and losing the battle to stop my glasses steaming up. I'll be on to mask number 2 soon as well, this one is getting rather damp.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm very glad I don't have to go to platform 26...
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@mgrolf, i'm fortunate in that we're only 20 minutes from Bristol airport so can get a lift with family for nothing so no parking costs.
This season's flights are particularly cheap as they included 1p per bag each way with easyjet booked at the start of the pandemic and then delayed a year. That in itself saved us £200+, which really makes train difficult cost wise.
From Bristol it's possible to get to France in a day, we just need a particularly early train to London to make a Eurostar over then down from Paris, and that's where the expense adds up, as those are peak time trains and really racks up the cost.
I'll definitely have another look in to it again and weigh up the costs as I really like the idea.
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FAQ
