 Poster: A snowHead
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hopefully i am interpreting this correctly in that this means the unvaccinated / single vaccinated can ski in france with no need for PS (assuming they have no need to go in restaurants / shops (teenagers for example staying with parents in self catered)
https://lesmenuires.com/en/covid
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Unvaccinated skiers in gondolas & cable cars? No thanks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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single vaccinated kids cant get a pass sanitaire. my son will have had one vax plus regular lateral flow. we wuld choose chair lifts where possible
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sounds like a complete nightmare. 5th wave imminent.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 19-10-21 7:33; edited 1 time in total
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| Unvaccinated skiers in gondolas & cable cars? No thanks. |
You wouldn't much like the Paris Metro right now then, would you? No PS required on it (or buses) either. I presume your 5th wave comment is ironic?
What is rather more stupid, per Tignes, is,
"WHAT ABOUT WEARING (sic) MASK?
Following a prefectural decision, the wearing of a mask is compulsory for all persons aged 11 and over in the following areas
...
On ski lifts (in the queue and on the lift)"
In cable cars, gondolas, in enclosed queues, absolutely. On chairlifts, irritating waste of time, illustrative only of ignorance of all we've discovered.
Personally, I'd prefer PS mandated and no masks in open air.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 19-10-21 7:27; edited 2 times in total
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| backhojo wrote: |
| https://en.tignes.net/informations-covid-19 |
Yes, but what isnt said is as important as what has been said.
While you are allowed to get on lifts without having pass sanitaire, you cant access anywhere to go to the toilet or have a drink / food.
Those restrictions will stop most people, unless they want to return to their apartment every time for a pee.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| GreenDay wrote: |
| backhojo wrote: |
| https://en.tignes.net/informations-covid-19 |
Yes, but what isnt said is as important as what has been said.
While you are allowed to get on lifts without having pass sanitaire, you cant access anywhere to go to the toilet or have a drink / food.
Those restrictions will stop most people, unless they want to return to their apartment every time for a pee. |
Hadn’t even considered that! Lunch/drinks are doable so long as the weather isn’t rubbish, but pee stops 
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| orange wrote: |
| Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ? |
Spot on comments imo 
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
Does the green pass not allow you to use toilets in france? Surely not?
In Italy here you can still get a drink at a bar or drink/eat on terrace and use toilets as required without a green pass..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@orange, wearing masks is the thing that helps, plus I suggest half capacity at maximum on gondolas. Messy at peak times, but better than nothing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@telford_mike, You clearly dont have teenage children who, after being hammered for the last two years to protect others, might be ready for a holiday. Stick to chair lifts.
And if you wanted to be as safe as possible, you'd be demanding compulsory tests rather than vaccination passports, given the latter do not prevent infection from others-but the former will guarantee that no one infected will be on a lift with you.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 19-10-21 8:06; edited 1 time in total
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@twoodwar, No, ventilation is the thing which helps more than anything. Expect all the windows to be open on gondolas!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Lunch/drinks are doable so long as the weather isn’t rubbish
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@Timmycb5, not in CdMB stations they're not. PS required to use any facilities, indoors or outdoors. "les restaurants (intérieur et extérieur), cafétérias présents sur nos sites et domaines" https://www.montblancnaturalresort.com/fr/
@orange,
| Quote: |
| Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission |
- I was under the impression that reduction of transmission was thought to be around 85% - but don't hold me to that as understanding of these things evolves soooo quickly  - but also that at a population level, if vaccination makes me (hugely) less susceptible and I'm in your R-transmissibility bubble, that probabilistically reduces spread. I think there are 2 things going on - PS encourages vaccination in the reluctant, a definite good, and as you rightly suggest, vaxx doesn't eliminate disease or infection, so protecting the un-vaxxed - at least at the margin - reduces spread.
@twoodwar,
| Quote: |
| wearing masks in crowded, poorly ventilated volumes, is the thing that helps |
FIFY 
@Sweedish, There's a detailed and nuanced thread from the FT's John Burn-Murdoch which goes into some detail about why the uk's infection rate might be relatively higher to many comparable countries' and while masks indoors are a super low cost (in any currency) and, at least marginally, effective intervention, there are likely other reasons, it's worth a read, https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1449801652207239176
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name, I was thinking picnics and a backpack stuffed full of drinks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Surely wearing masks isn't too big an ask for everyone when in enclosed spaces in resort on on chairlifts?
It's the requirements the Italians and French are setting and it's allowed numbers to drop here massively alongside vaccination.
In Italy you still need to wear masks in shops and enclosed areas and it doesn't seem to infringe on my ability to do things.
I'll gladly wear a mask on a gondola if it means I actually can get to use a gondola this year!!
I'd still like to find out if the French are not allowing toilet use as GreenDay suggests?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
Lunch/drinks are doable so long as the weather isn’t rubbish
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@Timmycb5, not in CdMB stations they're not. PS required to use any facilities, indoors or outdoors. "les restaurants (intérieur et extérieur), cafétérias présents sur nos sites et domaines" https://www.montblancnaturalresort.com/fr/
I wonder does that extend to essential services like toilets?
Again it in Italy it does not.
@Sweedish, There's a detailed and nuanced thread from the FT's John Burn-Murdoch which goes into some detail about why the uk's infection rate might be relatively higher to many comparable countries' and while masks indoors are a super low cost (in any currency) and, at least marginally, effective intervention, there are likely other reasons, it's worth a read, https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1449801652207239176 |
I'll check that out thanks!
Mask quality (is it a bit of cloth Vs is it a ffp2 or ffp3 mask and is it fitted properly) could be another reason!? I see more ffp2 masks used here in Italy and for sale than I do in the UK for one.
South Korea has a lot of higher spec mask use in general (n95/n99 which are ffp2 and ffp3 equivalents). Masks only work if they are fit for the purpose and worm properly. A piece of cloth or a scarf is never going to work like a made for purpose ffp2 mask! They have much lower vaccination rates there with hugely lower case numbers alongside a robust track and trace system but very high compliance with mask wearing in public!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Timmycb5, ah, yes, you can do that, but first you have to find a shop that will let you shop (several round here are now mandating PS, although it's not a legal requirement).
@Sweedish, how enclosed are most chairlifts? Enclosed spaces, sure. On chairlifts? Ridiculous.
My suspicion re toilets is that unless you have to pass through the resto to get to it, it'll be fine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowhound wrote: |
@telford_mike, You clearly dont have teenage children who, after being hammered for the last two years to protect others, might be ready for a holiday. Stick to chair lifts.
And if you wanted to be as safe as possible, you'd be demanding compulsory tests rather than vaccination passports, given the latter do not prevent infection from others-but the former will guarantee that no one infected will be on a lift with you. |
Another valuable comment!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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[quote="Sweedish"]
| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
Lunch/drinks are doable so long as the weather isn’t rubbish
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@Timmycb5, not in CdMB stations they're not. PS required to use any facilities, indoors or outdoors. "les restaurants (intérieur et extérieur), cafétérias présents sur nos sites et domaines" https://www.montblancnaturalresort.com/fr/
I wonder does that extend to essential services like toilets?
Again it in Italy it does not.
@Sweedish, There's a detailed and nuanced thread from the FT's John Burn-Murdoch which goes into some detail about why the uk's infection rate might be relatively higher to many comparable countries' and while masks indoors are a super low cost (in any currency) and, at least marginally, effective intervention, there are likely other reasons, it's worth a read, https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1449801652207239176 |
I'll check that out thanks!
Mask quality (is it a bit of cloth Vs is it a ffp2 or ffp3 mask and is it fitted properly) could be another reason!? I see more ffp2 masks used here in Italy and for sale than I do in the UK for one.
South Korea has a lot of higher spec mask use in general (n95/n99 which are ffp2 and ffp3 equivalents). Masks only work if they are fit for the purpose and worn properly!
A piece of cloth or a scarf is never going to work like a made for purpose ffp2 mask! They have much lower vaccination rates there with hugely lower case numbers alongside a robust track and trace system but very high compliance with mask wearing in public!
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Timmycb5, ah, yes, you can do that, but first you have to find a shop that will let you shop (several round here are now mandating PS, although it's not a legal requirement).
@Sweedish, how enclosed are most chairlifts? Enclosed spaces, sure. On chairlifts? Ridiculous.
My suspicion re toilets is that unless you have to pass through the resto to get to it, it'll be fine. |
No but the lines are close proximity and for that masks are required to help reduce transmission.
We've all been there at some point jostling for a space ski tip to ski tip elbow to elbow to get on a chairlift.
How hard is it to put a mask on for this...? Surely mask on Vs no lifts open is a better scenario?
And as for toilets...I agree, I think whoever posted that is scaremongering...
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@Sweedish, in a crowded lift queue, fair enough, although I doubt any benefit at all, although, must be said that in at least one direction anti-social distancing is maintained, "Get OFF MY SKIS!".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Sweedish, in a crowded lift queue, fair enough, although I doubt any benefit at all, although, must be said that in at least one direction anti-social distancing is maintained, "Get OFF MY SKIS!". |
I guess they are being 'belts and braces' to rule out any chances.
Lol, I hate people on my skis...something that happens less than you'd expect in Italy...at least where we ski
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Toilet access - having PS checked makes sense if the loo is inside the restaurant and down the stairs - but probably wouldn’t be if accessible without going via terrace or at the lifts or whatever.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Sweedish wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ? |
Spot on comments imo
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
Does the green pass not allow you to use toilets in france? Surely not?
In Italy here you can still get a drink at a bar or drink/eat on terrace and use toilets as required without a green pass.. |
Weird statement - Denmark has no restrictions, and much lower incidents than most European countries - By argue the way you do, then masks should be prohibited. There is a multitude of reasons to the spread, so pointing directly to masks alone, is just plain wrong.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| Sweedish wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ? |
Spot on comments imo
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
Does the green pass not allow you to use toilets in france? Surely not?
In Italy here you can still get a drink at a bar or drink/eat on terrace and use toilets as required without a green pass.. |
Weird statement - Denmark has no restrictions, and much lower incidents than most European countries - By argue the way you do, then masks should be prohibited. There is a multitude of reasons to the spread, so pointing to masks, is just plain wrong. |
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I'm thinking several of the restaurants I know have toilets outside and separately accessible.
Also many lift stations have toilets available to those who can't use restaurants toilets in that instance..
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You know it makes sense.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| Sweedish wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ? |
Spot on comments imo
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
Does the green pass not allow you to use toilets in france? Surely not?
In Italy here you can still get a drink at a bar or drink/eat on terrace and use toilets as required without a green pass.. |
Weird statement - Denmark has no restrictions, and much lower incidents than most European countries - By argueing the way you do, then masks should be prohibited. There is a multitude of reasons to the spread, so pointing to masks, is just plain wrong. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| Sweedish wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ? |
Spot on comments imo
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
Does the green pass not allow you to use toilets in france? Surely not?
In Italy here you can still get a drink at a bar or drink/eat on terrace and use toilets as required without a green pass.. |
Weird statement - Denmark has no restrictions, and much lower incidents than most European countries - By argueing the way you do, then masks should be prohibited. There is a multitude of reasons to the spread, so pointing to masks, is just plain wrong. |
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I think to argue masks don't help in a pandemic is also a weird statement!
Masks are one piece of the puzzle to the pandemic solution...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name, sorry. I’m not being clear. Me and my wife are fully vaccinated. I’m hoping that my 16 yo twins will be by then (they had their first jab in August), but it is unlikely that my 13 yo son will be, even though he will have had recovered from Covid sub 6 months and had a single jab, so technically fine for the PS, but no way of getting his info loaded onto TAC (or even having paper proof) because of the way the NHS release (or don’t, rather) the data.
So we will easily be able to shop, etc. We could be really harsh and make him sit outside whilst we eat a meal, and make him pee up against the nearest tree 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| So we will easily be able to shop, etc. We could be really harsh and make him sit outside whilst we eat a meal, and make him pee up against the nearest tree |
Has he got his own skis/board, boots, poles & helmet? If not, then what about access to the ski hire shop? It's already one of the more stressful parts of a ski trip, and having to sit outside trying on boots won't make it any more fun.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Judwin wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| So we will easily be able to shop, etc. We could be really harsh and make him sit outside whilst we eat a meal, and make him pee up against the nearest tree |
Has he got his own skis/board, boots, poles & helmet? If not, then what about access to the ski hire shop? It's already one of the more stressful parts of a ski trip, and having to sit outside trying on boots won't make it any more fun. |
Hopefully -ve testing will still be allowed for the PS. That’ll cover that off.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Sweedish wrote: |
Spot on comments imo
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
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I’m not sure whether you’re being ironic here, but we have mask mandates in 3 out of 4 countries in the UK and the one that doesn’t has the third lowest case rate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ?
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Even preventing 50% of infections (and the vaccines do reduce the chance of infection by over 50%) would have a massive effect on transmission rates. Spread still happens - it is just less likely. Basically the fewer people who have the disease the less likely you are to catch it. Papers like this one explain it https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468042720300129
Like you I am confused why people don't want to be vaccinated. Is their role model Typhoid Mary?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@johnE, Are you aware that 17s and under do not yet have the option of a second covid vaccine? Furthermore many 12-15 yr olds have not been offered even one vaccine yet as they are not allowed to go to drop in centres and vaccine teams have not yet gone to the majority of schools.
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@snowymum, Yes, I am aware that 16 YOs and younger are not being fully vacinated in the UK. I was not aware that this also applied to 17YOs.
I cannot recall seeing what the reason for this is - is it so more vaccines are available to the rest of the world?
France has been vaccinating all 12 and overs and requiring face masks to be worn in schools. The results are clear
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| Sweedish wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| Sweedish wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| Why does having unvaccinated people differ from vaccinated ? Being vaccinated doesn’t inhibit or change the spread of Covid beyond a very slight reduction in transmission, it does clearly massively reduce the symptoms should you get it. So the risk is more to the unvaccinated than the vaccinated ? I’ve been at several large events which have required proof of vax and a negative lft after which colleagues have tested positive. So the spread still happens, it’s just better to be vaccinated. So I’m confused as to why people are concerned about it - genuinely ? |
Spot on comments imo
Lack of mask mandate in the UK is clearly in part why UK case numbers are higher than most other European countries currently!
Does the green pass not allow you to use toilets in france? Surely not?
In Italy here you can still get a drink at a bar or drink/eat on terrace and use toilets as required without a green pass.. |
Weird statement - Denmark has no restrictions, and much lower incidents than most European countries - By argueing the way you do, then masks should be prohibited. There is a multitude of reasons to the spread, so pointing to masks, is just plain wrong. |
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I think to argue masks don't help in a pandemic is also a weird statement!
Masks are one piece of the puzzle to the pandemic solution... |
I never did!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnE, those aged 16 to 3 months short of their 18th birthday have been offered one dose, and the timing of their second dose is yet to be decided. I read from that that they will be offered a second dose at some point. 12-15 have been (or are due to be) offered one dose only. At the moment there is no plan to give them a second dose.
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@johnE, The government have said it is due to the small risk of myocarditis following the second vaccination.
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FAQ
