 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
I have a quick question.
Bought my OH some skis but it feels like they may be actually slightly too long for her height.
She is 5ft1 (155cm) so she says
58kg
very "defensive" intermediate (snowplough into parallel level 4/5), she can ski greens and easy blues. and even been managing some harder blues and reds but with some difficulty
During our recent first ever ski holiday she had Elan rentals (130cm) but not sure if that was a hinderance or help as she did struggle with stability on steeper slopes while turning.
I got her Volkl flair 76 147cm. They go around her eyeline/eyebrow level (barefoot).
would these be OK or should I look for something shorter and if so what length?
There is very limited choice of skis at 140-145 and I dont think junior skis would be a good idea
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi Matt and welcome.
Her weight, ability and aggressiveness are much more important than height.
If you had asked me what length to get, given her stats - I would have advised around 147, so I think these should be fine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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junior skis would/could work
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Has she had good lessons? That might be a better investment than new skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd be with @pam w, on stay with rentals and get lessons, assuming she has aspirations to get better?
58Kgs is (to my mind anyway) full on adult. (Mrs U is around there - although she's a very experienced and strong skier so otherwise irrelevant).
The junior Flair just looks to be +/- a very cheap/simple foam with a bit of reinforcement and described as "ideal for light-weight beginners and kids." So @mattwhite, I think you are quite right in not looking at junior kit.
And as OFB say, 147 not a terrible choice in length.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
assuming she has aspirations to get better?
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this is an important point, which I should have noted. Nothing worse than pushing someone who is really quite happy to snowplough round the place a bit. Lots of people enjoy swimming at the equivalent level, after all.
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I’d say definitely the 147s - but married with lessons to improve technique which will then boost confidence.
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Thanks for all the replies.
In regards to lessons I will "make" her take a couple on our next ski holiday. We are going Norway so the slopes there are bit more gentle and she can gain more confidence as well.
She skied like 10 years ago if not more, and had lessons on the indoor slope recently.
The main comment from the instructor was confidence, but when looking at her skiing on the mountain she is "scared" of people coming from above and she gets distracted and slows down. On more mild blue/greenish slopes she is actually faster than me (I'm a snowboarder) and can do parallel turns Hopefully less busy slopes in Norway will be better in that respect.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mattwhite wrote: |
very "defensive" intermediate (snowplough into parallel level 4/5), she can ski greens and easy blues. and even been managing some harder blues and reds but with some difficulty |
Not sure what grading system (cos there isn't a standard) you're using for the "4/5", but in general I wouldn't describe that as intermediate, still in the beginner phase really. Not terribly important unless you're making decisions based on that where someone else's definition of the same term will be very different, like potentially choosing a ski length. so if you were to search for ski length calculator, for example, you should really input beginner not intermediate into the formulae you'll find.
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147 sounds about right to me but agree with others and I'd also stick with rental skis; try various types and sizes until one suits. Length less important than improving control, which builds confidence. Also, a future confident intermediate would benefit from a different ski to a cautious beginner.
Progressing out of snowplough (unless it's really needed in some situations) is one of the great breakthrough stages to enjoying skiing more.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mattwhite, Welcome to Snowheads. Length sounds about right and with a 11.8m turn radius they're a safe bet. With less confident skiers it almost always comes down to being able to control line and speed as the gradient increases. Lessons are the way ahead. I'd suggest some private lessons with an instructor about her own age who is used to a less confident client.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| PeakyB wrote: |
Progressing out of snowplough (unless it's really needed in some situations) is one of the great breakthrough stages to enjoying skiing more. |
Modern teaching often seeks to avoid the beginner getting fixated with the snowplough in the first place - once they've adopted it as the universal way to control speed it can be very difficult to get out of the habit. Instead we try to encourage them, perhaps starting on the second or third day, to feel how to control speed by turning, even if it's still a snowplough-initiated turn. Getting used to travelling slightly faster across the snow without going any faster downhill will also make more parallel turning much easier to achieve.
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| Quote: |
Getting used to travelling slightly faster across the snow without going any faster downhill will also make more parallel turning much easier to achieve.
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And double the downhill fun of every uplift......
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You know it makes sense.
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For someone who's lacking confidence a lesson focussing on controlled side-slipping, both sides, then "falling leaf" is a huge bonus. Perhaps it's a skill that tends to get forgotten? It's much easier on the body than snowplough too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I used to practice "falling leaves" when my OH was faffing with his ski boots, or doing blood tests, or hunting through his pockets for his glucose tablets. So I got plenty of practice.... 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yeah, side-skipping can be useful, comes under the category of 'mountain skills' in the BASI system. Can help with edge control and fore-aft balance, but it's not something I'd normally tend to teach in and of itself at that level. It's very useful to navigate moguls with a swivel and slide approach, and something that not all quite advanced skiers will have tried.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
It's very useful to navigate moguls with a swivel and slide approach
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And at a more basic level, just to cope with a stretch of something steeper than you'd expected - a "get out of jail" card for nervous skiers, I'd have thought. I once saw two quite young kids each with their own private ESF instructors (expensive!!) being drilled in side-slipping. Probably made a boring lesson for them but I imagine the parents said what they wanted them to be taught.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bracquage, it's called. Name escaped me earlier.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A friend's wife, average skier, has 149cm skis, so I reckon you're spot on!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Bracquage, it's called. Name escaped me earlier. |
I do like the terms "Bracquage" and "Avalement", as it makes the disciplines sound expert and exotic. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Old Fartbag, but also, "une avalement ne fait pas l'été" 
Seriously though, sideslipping maketh the skier.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, but also, "une avalement ne fait pas l'été" |
Tell me about it!
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I am the same height but slightly lighter. When I started I did have a pair of 149cm rossingol skis but I found these too long for me and so I now have a pair of nordica 144cm skis. I found these much easier to handle as I have got better over the years.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Elsie80, sounds entirely reasonable. The skis don't know how tall you are. It's all about the weight. And no "longer" (ha ha) about the length. The days of standing skis on boots on the cable car (for men only, obviously, Ladies would not be so puerile) long gone.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Elsie80, sounds entirely reasonable. The skis don't know how tall you are. It's all about the weight. And no "longer" (ha ha) about the length. The days of standing skis on boots on the cable car (for men only, obviously, Ladies would not be so puerile) long gone. |
Yes, it's not all about the height, but it's not entirely irrelevant. Think of a very short person with very long skis, they're potentially going to find it much more difficult to just stand in them, or skate, jump turn or any of various other manoeuvres. Yes, perhaps only at the extremes would it be significant, but for these people starting out with "I'm short..." it's certainly not something that should be completely ignored, especially if that continues "... but fat".
EDIT: For clarity, what I'm getting at is that if length selection is based entirely on weight, short-but-heavy people may find themselves with longer skis than their shorter levers are able to easily manage. Conversely, tall but thin folks may get a ski that's so short they risk falling over the tip or tail if the don't quite have their weight centred.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Chaletbeauroc, I have to say I think you really are looking at the margins there. I don't think they are real world issues.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A taller person would have a slightly higher centre of mass than the same weight person of shorter height, all other things being equal. Is that where this idea comes from? If so it sounds wrong, as in a carved turn the skier would have their weight stacked over the edge, so the height of the centre of mass above that edge makes no difference. The skier isn't using their centre of mass in some type of lever system.
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@phil_w, Yes, in a carved turn... but not for most else. But anyway, I'm mainly thinking about the difficulties of short legs with long skis for the other activities mentioned. I've certainly seen that beginners struggle with longer skis for this reason.
@under a new name, Margins? Yes, maybe, but I think they're worth bringing into the equation for those people who are on those margins, don't you?
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm a similar height, and weight (5'0 (152cm)/54kg).
My instinct was immediately that they would be far too long for comfort. It sounds like she's still uneasy, and longer skis are harder to turn, particularly when you're not confident. I was given some 145cm ones in December, and really struggled. I swapped them for 128cm skis and the difference was immediate. I felt far more in control. I had 130cm at Easter because they didn't have 128s. I initially struggled with them in things like chair lift queues as I'd inadvertently cross the tips, but I did get used to them as the week went on and stopped that. My absolute maximum ski length now is 130cm and I can comfortably ski reds with them.
I know there's an argument for stability on long skis at speed, but it sounds like she needs to build her confidence in turning parallel before worrying about picking up any speed first, and shorter skis will absolutely help with that. It will also be easier to skate on flat bits with short ones, and that's a key skill.
As an aside, stay off the reds and harder blues with her until she's built her confidence. Let her lead. My husband is a nervous skier and still snowplough turns most of the time. At Easter, when we skied together, we stuck to lovely cruise-y blues that he could build his confidence on. He's considering more lessons for next year, but this year came way with his confidence buoyed and starting to parallel turn. I had time to ski alone where I had a crack at more challenging runs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Chaletbeauroc, being a not very tall person, at 168cms but having skied on 225cm skis, I think the margins are quite marginal ...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Chaletbeauroc, being a not very tall person, at 168cms but having skied on 225cm skis, I think the margins are quite marginal ... |
Yeah, but you are Mighty Mouse - and ICMFP. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Old Fartbag, hah hah!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@mattwhite, ….we have a range of nice short twin tips (which of course ski about 10cm shorter than the full length, due to the upturned tail) and these range from 126 Line Mini Invader (a youth ski but fine for a 58kg early skier) to 148 Line Tom Wallisch Shorty (which were used by my niece of around 55kg) - these latter would equate to a 138 non-twin tip ski. The Flair are flat tail skis I believe and so ski their true length? Also the Lines have a less aggressive camber which makes them a very easy turning ski yet with plenty of edge hold. The 2018 negative camber Volkl youth Mantras would be an excellent ski for your partner - ridiculously easy turning ski yet with tenacious edge grip. In 138 or 148, since it has a small rise to the tail. These:
https://www.skiessentials.com/2018-volkl-mantra-junior-skis.html
I recently picked some up for 40gbp.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@valais2, have to say I wouldn't want to pay any more for them! Minus the metal they are only Mantras by the graphics.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agreed … no metal … but having skied them (62kg 172cm tall) I must say I am amused and impressed by them. For a large hard charging adult you do, as you imply, benefit from the full metal jacket of the M6 - but the OP might find these youth Mantras quite a boon. I enjoy riding through slop on these - the negative camber just lifts me straight up to the surface.
We have metal Kenjas, skinny RTMs, and do like the sidewall Volkls.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@valais2, I just sort of think that (other than the very attractive price) something that had a bit more thought put into it (by the designers) might be more interesting? Just a feeling.
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I'm slightly taller/heavier (5'2, 60kg), and for me about 150 seems to be the sweet spot (having tried lengths between 140 and 170 over the last 2 years!) - but it's horses for courses. I loathed being given short skis when learning, just didn't feel right. On the Flair itself, I hired them once, probably 2nd or 3rd holiday, and quite liked them, didn't find them as wibbly wobbly as other soft 'learner' skis, very easy to turn and well able to handle steeper sections.
So I'd give the ones you bought a go, get your partner some lessons, and see how she likes them - you can always hire something shorter if they don't suit. 
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I once taught a beginner group lesson. A kid came on a pair of adult skis… because her Mom thought it was a good idea to had him to use her skis. 
It’s a good bit longer than ideal. But after commenting it being the wrong ski, I proceeded to go through the lesson. He did quite fine. Confidence is key.
As others pointed out, lesson would have been a better use of the funds. But since you already bought the skis, stop questioning the length! She doesn’t need the doubt!
Once she master the proper technique, it will be the right length… for strong confident intermediates!
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