 Poster: A snowHead
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My daughter and I are going to Lech next spring. Although we normally ski in Montana we have next to no experience skiing in Europe. (I learned in Fieberbrunn 50 years ago and that was it.) As she is a far better skier than I both in terms of ability and fitness, I am encouraging her to go with a guide off piste. As I'm sure you are all aware, Rocky Mountain ski areas include extensive non-groomed terrain in their patrolled and avalanche-controlled areas, so terrain instruction is not really required, she's been handling it all for decades. She also has done backcountry skiing for the past 7 years. She has taken avalanche safety courses multiple times.
Aside from Piste to Powder, are there other firms offering "open groups" in the Arlberg area? So far all I've come across are private guides or places that expect you to bring your own group. One place the first day is safety training, which I don't think she needs much of.
I'd appreciate any pointers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmm, try Arlberg Guides, they may have groups she could join (but as far as I know they don't do open groups on a regular basis). There's at least one other guide outfit but can't remember the name now.
For open groups, you may not be able to dodge the safety training - might be standard due to insurance or simply because they have no way of checking who knows what.
One point to remember in the Arlberg: for many guides, daily costs vary strongly depending on size of the group. (there's a minimum and then the price increases with each additional person until the max size of 6). You might find that booking a private guide for two or three people may work out not a lot more expensive than 2-3 spots with Piste to Powder). Of course, that still means she has to find that additional person or two (assuming you won't join her, based on your post), but perhaps this is easier than finding 4-5 people.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In Lech it is common for all advanced groups in the Lech skischool to go off-piste majority of time.
So your daughter can simply join the Lech Arlberg Skischule! You might be surprised about the high level of skiing in the top-groups
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Try Skischule Omeshorn Alpincenter Lech. Specialists in 'off piste' or Lech Ski School as mentioned above. Some of the best instructors in the world.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm pretty sure dagger eyes would be directed at me if I suggested ski school. She's a bit miffed about me insisting on a guide. I told her there could be crevasses and she's never had to worry about that here. Lol!
Piste to Powder seems really responsive, they answered quickly about ski levels. I just wish they started some groups in Lech.
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It's not so much about crevasses as the Arlberg isn't glaciated but it is definitely about glidecracks the odd sink hole and knowing quite how far one can stray into certain drainages.
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It’s mostly about several offpiste avalanche-deaths per season in Lech...
Your daughter will be stunned about the level of skiing in the higher groups of the “skischool”. And might very well not even be good enough to enter one of the “1A” groups....(yes, there are several 1A groups in Lech, every week)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sibhusky wrote: |
I'm pretty sure dagger eyes would be directed at me if I suggested ski school. She's a bit miffed about me insisting on a guide. I told her there could be crevasses and she's never had to worry about that here. Lol!
Piste to Powder seems really responsive, they answered quickly about ski levels. I just wish they started some groups in Lech. |
I think you need to try and explain European off piste skiing to her! With a guide or a ski school group she could be miles away from any lift or other people and wholly reliant on self help if an issue (unless in a group) - completely different to the USA in bounds system.
Also explain that once you are outside the piste pole markers, you cannot assume that any avalanche safety has taken place, if she wasn't in a group she could follow tracks off a cliff, ski a slope that is known to slide, etc etc.
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I think the basic point is that advanced "classes" are effectively the same as guided groups just with someone qualified as an instructor rather than as a guide. No real "teaching" gets done unless asked for or necessary coaching through some terrain.
Obviously instructor would turn up with full avy kit.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@sibhusky, there has been a fair amount of discussion over on Skitalk (eg https://www.skitalk.com/threads/us-court-of-appeals-tenth-circuit-snow-covered-stumps-are-an-inherent-risk-of-skiing-a-sport-as-thrilling-as-it-can-be-risky.23529/) on why offpiste skiing in Europe is a different ball of wax to the USA.
In short:
1. Once you leave the marked piste, even by a few metres, you are off-piste. No avi control, unless it is required to protect a piste below, and no marking of hazards.
2. As a general rule, there are no gates or signs to tell you that you are leaving a controlled area. There are a few signs in the Arlberg that warn you at points that are commonly used as entries to the better known touring routes, but that’s it.
3. It is frightening easy to ski into areas that cliff-out, or are well outside your abilities to continue, avi traps (check out the Törli - people die there), or just require an impossibly difficult hike out.
Get a guide or join a high-end class.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm pretty sure the OP is fully sentient as to the risks of Euro off piste which is why she wants her daughter to join a guided group to ski it ( plus of course such a group can open up terrain that a solo skier would not sensibly contemplate for safety or navigation reasons).
The issue lies in the badging of what are effectively guided groups as "lessons" in Lech but I'm sure that can be surmounted perhaps with a phone call to the relevant ski school ahead of the visit making it clear the sort of ecperience she is after.
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…maybe because there was already a long discussion on it on Skitalk, but that’s a guess. It was however no guess that @Dave of the Marmottes would jump in with a dig, more subtle than usual, but totally within character.
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You know it makes sense.
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@ulmerhutte, You know the OP is an active poster on Skitalk yet you leapt in to patronize with stuff that is repeated oh so many times. Fine if you're dealing with an unknown person but this really isn't it. If that's what constitutes a dig warranting an ad hom rant then you really need to apply some toughen up buttercup cream to that oh so fragile neo con skin.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes, I'm familiar with the issues. She isn't. Which is why I'm trying to push her into this option.
Really, it's to save my own skin. LOL! Because 2 decades ago I was a better (and more adventurous) skier than I am today. And she hasn't quite fathomed how much I've declined since she moved out. If she has an outlet once or twice I will be spared the worst. It's bad enough she's in the next county before I push off.
We'll look into the ski school options too, I'll just have to spin it right.
Thanks. But don't fight over me. Someone else could be reading this and not know this stuff. Or who I am. (An old lady who's been on a succession of American ski forums for 20 years. Coming here for info on Europe.)
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Poster: A snowHead
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If your budget stretches to it, then you could try booking Andy Thurner at https://arlberg-guides.at/eng/team/ He is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and he knows the Arlberg like the back of his hand, so much so that he wrote a book about it.
Andy’s book “Arlberg Offpiste” is worth buying. It contains descriptions of the classic Arlberg offpiste routes. It is a bit dated now, ie piste numbering has been updated, and the Auenfeldjet to Warth/Schröcken, has affected some of the route descriptions. I would not suggest using it as a means of navigating yourself, but it does provide an idea of what’s on offer and a source of inspiration.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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+1. I joined a powder group for a day some years ago. Good standard, massive fun. I wasn't fit enough, though, so I was a wreck by the end of the day. One day was enough - but I was glad I did it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dave of the Marmottes puts it exactly right, you just need to badge the skischool a bit different.
It’s your perfect solution.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for that link. Very helpful.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Helpful? For your daughter?
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I suspect her daughter is pretty gnarly. I mean she's fought off grizzlies n all.
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The pictures are enticing, the discussion of the the various guide services and the confusion in rates, etc.
Geez, Dave, you have been following me... Yes, daughter pretty gnarly, but she's raced and mountain biked, etc., for years and not been seriously injured and there's a reason for that beyond luck. Surviving the bear was luck and a brave Dad.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@sibhusky, sorry not stalking I (used to) post under another name there ( well same name actually but then another kind of furry animal...long story)
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| sibhusky wrote: |
The pictures are enticing, the discussion of the the various guide services and the confusion in rates, etc.
Geez, Dave, you have been following me... Yes, daughter pretty gnarly, but she's raced and mountain biked, etc., for years and not been seriously injured and there's a reason for that beyond luck. Surviving the bear was luck and a brave Dad. |
Sounds like she should really be skiing with Bear Grylls!
If she's a really good level and not keen on a guide/instructor, maybe try hooking up with some local freeriders via Instagram / FB. Like these girls:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CNX0QqvBVpP/?utm_medium=copy_link
There used to be a guy called Sydney Reilly who posted on here who had lots of knowledge of the Arlberg and good contacts.
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