 Poster: A snowHead
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https://www.gov.scot/publications/economic-social-cultural-impact-scotlands-snowsports-sector-2022/documents/
This is the latest post Covid report about the Scottish ski industry. Unsurprisingly perhaps It paints a rather bleak future with no obvious solutions 
I note that the report does not mention volunteering? One way to cut costs and re engage skiers might be to move back to a pared down hybrid volunteer/professional operating structure. All the Scottish ski areas except Nevis Range began as ski clubs with volunteers operating portable tows and then more permanent installations. The difficulty of going back to that option today would be replicating that level of energy, enthusiasm and skills. If the demand was there though it could deliver in terms of culture, ownership and cost
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Peter S wrote: |
| All the Scottish ski areas except Nevis Range began as ski clubs with volunteers operating portable tows and then more permanent installations. |
The Lecht was a commercial setup from the start.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I read this recently and in the round agree. One area I think they did overlook was the opportunity afforded by changing buying patterns caused by climate and cost of living. I’m optimistic that there will be some opportunities for those who decide not to fly or reduce flying and also those who simply cannot afford an overseas holiday but could possibly do a Scotland based break with some skiing included. Who knows.
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| orange wrote: |
| I read this recently and in the round agree. One area I think they did overlook was the opportunity afforded by changing buying patterns caused by climate and cost of living. I’m optimistic that there will be some opportunities for those who decide not to fly or reduce flying and also those who simply cannot afford an overseas holiday but could possibly do a Scotland based break with some skiing included. Who knows. |
Unless you live within a couple of hours drive from a Scottish ski area then it's cheaper to fly to continental Europe
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I believe this review as published was after intervention from HIE substantially different in tone and findings from the provisional report.
The appendix is an absolute disgrace, it’s not just a big lie to give a wholly false impression that enterprise agency funding has her been fairly equitable of the past decade, the figure given for CairnGorm is wrong by more than an order of magnitude.
A number of ski areas, organisations and individuals who contributed info to the report have formally complained and demanded the reports full and immediate withdrawal.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
This is simply not true, Scottish people are no more or less welcoming than they have always been.
I think the SNP government is dire and do not support independence. But I don't see how they have made English skiers unwelcome. What do you base that on?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What an ignorant loud mouthed post (that only fuels division).
a) When did you last ski in Scotland?
b) any evidence to substantiate your brain-fart? or just fishing in hope of reaction?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Mike Pow, I did have an overnight stay the night before
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Unless you live within a couple of hours drive from a Scottish ski area then it's cheaper to fly to continental Europe |
5 million people live in Scotland.
Another 5 million live in N.England and could easily make a long weekend of it.
That is the target audience for Scottish skiing.
Flying to the alps for a short break isn't very sustainable in terms of carbon foot print.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Unless you live within a couple of hours drive from a Scottish ski area then it's cheaper to fly to continental Europe |
Some 5 million people live in Scotland within ~2-3hrs drive of the Scottish resorts.
Another 5 million live in N.England (5-6hrs) and could easily make a long weekend of it.
That is the target audience for Scottish skiing. |
2-6 hrs then
Statement still stands
I pay no attention to my carbon footprint
My partner and I don’t have children or a car
That’s far more significant than a few flights a year
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 7-04-23 19:01; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Statement still stands |
By comparing skiing in Scotland with a short break to alps you entirely miss the point for most people who actually ski up here....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Statement still stands |
By comparing skiing in Scotland with a week in Meribel (or shorter break) you entirely miss the point though.... |
Why?
I’d happily choose a week in Scotland if the price was comparable with the cheaper destinations in Europe which offer a similar ski experience
And it appears the target audience you’ve identified feel the same way
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Poster: A snowHead
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What a stupid comment. Perhaps it is just you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Statement still stands |
By comparing skiing in Scotland with a week in Meribel (or shorter break) you entirely miss the point though.... |
Why?
I’d happily choose a week in Scotland if the price was comparable with the cheaper destinations in Europe which offer a similar ski experience
And it appears the target audience you’ve identified feel the same way |
^ I would bet anyone north of Manchester (with their own car) could easily do a last minute short break to Scotland for less than the alps ?
However: by making such comparison you willfully miss the point that most people who actually ski up here are locals & weekenders.
Generally they come from Edin, Glas, Inverness etc (or maybe Newcastle / North England etc) and take advantage of opportunity at last minute when snow conditions turn good.
Majority of trips planned last minute. Most will return home to spend night in their own bed or be away from home for 1-2 nights max.
No one is pretending that Scotland is a substitute for a week in Meribel.
Though FWIW : London is pretty much equidistant from Morzine and Fort William (~800km either way).
| Mike Pow wrote: |
I pay no attention to my carbon footprint
My partner and I don’t have children or a car
That’s far more significant than a few flights a year |
Type details in here to see impact of flying.
: https://footprint.wwf.org.uk/
The "no children" comment is rather ignorant justification given we all originated from our mothers womb...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What an ignorant loud mouthed post (that only fuels division).
a) When did you last ski in Scotland?
b) any evidence to substantiate your brain-fart? or just fishing in hope of reaction? |
Just my view. If you don't like it tough.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What a stupid comment. Perhaps it is just you. |
In your opinion maybe.
I will spend my money where i feel welcome and the SNP don't welcome the English
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What an ignorant loud mouthed post (that only fuels division).
a) When did you last ski in Scotland?
b) any evidence to substantiate your brain-fart? or just fishing in hope of reaction? |
Just my view. If you don't like it tough. |
Maybe the Scots just dont welcome people who act like complete arseholes ? 
Irrespective of nationality.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Statement still stands |
By comparing skiing in Scotland with a week in Meribel (or shorter break) you entirely miss the point though.... |
Why?
I’d happily choose a week in Scotland if the price was comparable with the cheaper destinations in Europe which offer a similar ski experience
And it appears the target audience you’ve identified feel the same way |
^ I would bet anyone north of Manchester (with their own car) could easily do a last minute short break to Scotland for less than the alps ?
However: by making such comparison you willfully miss the point that most people who actually ski up here are locals & weekenders.
Generally they come from Edin, Glas, Inverness etc (or maybe Newcastle / North England etc) and take advantage of opportunity at last minute when snow conditions turn good.
Majority of trips planned last minute. Most will return home to spend night in their own bed or be away from home for 1-2 nights max.
No one is pretending that Scotland is a substitute for a week in Meribel.
Though FWIW : London is pretty much equidistant from Morzine and Fort William (~800km either way).
| Mike Pow wrote: |
I pay no attention to my carbon footprint
My partner and I don’t have children or a car
That’s far more significant than a few flights a year |
Type details in here to see impact of flying.
: https://footprint.wwf.org.uk/
The "no children" comment is rather ignorant justification given we all originated from our mothers womb... |
I think you’re wilfully missing the point
We’re all aware that the vast majority of day & stay visitors come from the North of England and Scotland
But the report has stated that those numbers are declining
If Scotland was competitive financially with similar countries / resort in continental Europe then perhaps that would grow the market
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@stewart woodward, I welcome you to Scotland, as would the majority of other Scots. Generally it's the loudmouths that are covered by the media rather than the silent majority!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@zikomo, @Haggis_Trap, @GlasgowCyclops,
C’mon now guys. It’s a well known fact that the SNP blockade the entrances to all the Scottish ski areas to vett arrivals and weed out the English.
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@Haggis_Trap,
Quite right. Scotland is easily doable for a weekend from northern England and many do. I think the piste patrol couple at Glencoe live in the Eden Valley, Cumbria.
There is no doubt that the quality of Scottish skiing can be as good as anywhere on the best days. It’s just the consistency that is the problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Peter S wrote: |
@Haggis_Trap,
Quite right. Scotland is easily doable for a weekend from northern England and many do. I think the piste patrol couple at Glencoe live in the Eden Valley, Cumbria.
There is no doubt that the quality of Scottish skiing can be as good as anywhere on the best days. It’s just the consistency that is the problem. |
Yes, midweek ski patroller (Keith) is from the lakes!
Lovely guy.
As you say the can consistency is the issue, more so in the climate change era. That is the main reason why marketing best targeted at the local / weekender population. No sensible skier books a scottish ski trip more than a week in advance. The weather and snow simply too variable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Maybe the Scots just dont welcome people who act like complete arseholes ?
Irrespective of nationality. |
Well they are not going to attract many English skiers then.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What an ignorant loud mouthed post (that only fuels division).
a) When did you last ski in Scotland?
b) any evidence to substantiate your brain-fart? or just fishing in hope of reaction? |
Just my view. If you don't like it tough. |
If you’ve met 10 a$$holes today, maybe you’re the a$$hole?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Are there any Scottish resorts that have artificial slopes as a backup? I'm only aware of the slopes on the racing calendar at hillend, bearsden and firpark.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
No sensible skier books a scottish ski trip more than a week in advance.
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Ha, 4th of January this year booked a half day off work on that very morning to get a day's skiing at Glenshee!
You need to be dedicated, flexible and a bit mad to rely on Scottish ski conditions
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Glosterwolf wrote: |
| Are there any Scottish resorts that have artificial slopes as a backup? I'm only aware of the slopes on the racing calendar at hillend, bearsden and firpark. |
Only 2 very short ones. At Nevis Range, basically 1 tower of the Alpha Tow and a 60m slope behind the base cafe at Glencoe.
The Glencoe one is used primarily for summer tubing, but in winter for beginners when it is too stormy to get on the mountain and for school groups in the autumn, who in turn transition onto snow come winter.
There were two longer ones more recently at the Lecht on the Osprey Poma, and already gone before the Osprey mat was laid in the mid 90s, was the Plastic Slope Poma at Glenshee.
Both though longer than what exists at Nevis or Glencoe today, was not long enough to attract viable numbers to what are remote locations, when a massively bigger facility exists at Hillend.
There was also serious operational issues with pistebashers ripping up the metal framed mats which in turn mangled the machine tracks and could take days to extract/fix! 
CML wanted to build a beginner snow flex slope on a wind blasted ridge where it would stick out like a sore thumb for 10s of miles away, the planning authority thankfully convincingly rejected it out of hand. It would almost certainly have been the end of the Daylodge Poma, though it’s days appear numbered with most of its fencing removed and not replaced.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In that case I think a trip up would have to coincide with lecht open and bring the bikes also incase. It is too far for me to bother for less than a week. I Intend to try it once at least.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| haggishunter wrote: |
That table is yet another piece of  . |
True: the hand of HIE?
Cairngorm only 40min from Inverness (pop 50k)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JimboS wrote: |
| @stewart woodward, I welcome you to Scotland, as would the majority of other Scots. Generally it's the loudmouths that are covered by the media rather than the silent majority! |
Thank you.
Some of the loudmouths are keyboard warriors on  hiding behind aliases and dishing out abusive comments.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Flying to the alps for a short break isn't very sustainable in terms of carbon foot print. |
You think people care about carbon footprint? let alone enough to think twice about taking a holiday!
deluded.
Majority of the population can get to the alps a lot quicker than Scotland!
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Some of the loudmouths are keyboard warriors on hiding behind aliases and dishing out abusive comments. |
Stewart, the initial 'loudmouthed / keyboard' warrior comments were those below. When questioned on your indiscretion (an obvious fishing exercise) you chose to double down.
If this is your attitude perhaps Scots would be best to avoid your ski school in Tignes and send business elsewhere? As you say : better to "spend money where welcome".
| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help. The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
| I will spend my money where i feel welcome and the SNP don't welcome the English |
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We live in the north of England but have never been to a Scottish ski resort. We simply don't fancy a 7 hour drive to find out the lifts are shut due to wind, tickets have all been sold or there is a 3 hour queue to pay.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Truly bizarre statement about not welcoming "the English".
IIRC, English tourists make up the largest numbers in Scotland (although obviously not all skiing).
It certainly helps to be on the spot, but it's not inconceivable to travel up from northern England.....indeed I think Mountainaddict of this parish does just that.
As an SNP member, I'm off to tell my English wife she's not welcome in our house...... 
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FAQ
