 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all
It's been a very long time since posting anything in the SH forum and what a strange year to return! However, after no snow since a trip to Chamonix in March 2019 (last winter spent in Central America lots of mountains *volcanoes* but definitely no snow) myself and partner are looking to right this wrong and are currently making plans to spend the season out in the mountains 2021/2022. Fingers crossed the world allows, now with a double whammy of Brexit and Covid to contend with!
So my question is if you had to choose one of the following for a whole season which would it be and why? We are focusing on; Portes du Soleil (Avoriaz/Morzine), 3V (Meribel), Grand Massif (Flaine/Samoens) , Espace Killy (Val d'Isere), Chamonix (any)
I hope those of you who are lucky enough to have snow on your doorsteps in the UK are making the most of it, I have seen some amazing videos of Snowdonia and Scotland this year. Lucky sods!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@borntoski,
1. Val D’Isere
2. Chamonix
3. Portes du Soleil
4. Meribel
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@borntoski, No doubt you're aware of the 90 day rule.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| esaw1 wrote: |
| @borntoski, No doubt you're aware of the 90 day rule. |
Indeed, 6 month VISA applications going ahead.
Out of interest, does anyone know the process of upgrading from a 6 month-12 month visa if we decided to stay in France for the summer too? Also is their a period of time that has to be left before you can re-apply for example if we did not stay for the summer but came back for a consecutive winter?
I know there is a lot of doom and gloom with regards to covid and where the world will be, but I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic and hope that in 10 months time travel will be back on the cards with the vast majority of vaccinations rolled out. I mean we already wear face coverings and gloves on the mountains anyway 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can't comment on PdS or GM never having stayed there. I have stayed seasons or spent time elsewhere so can offer my thoughts on some of these. My skiing interests are to develop as a skier, enjoy both piste and off piste, to tour (mostly day tours) and cross country (nordic).
My experiences of Chamonix have been week-at-a-time or staying with friends. Of all the places i have skied it has struck me as having the greatest amount of what you might describe as 'extreme' terrain. Many knarly-looking folk around with goatees and wearing climbing harnesses (in the bar). A friend who has stayed there the last few seasons loves it for that but recognises that it's a big diversion and given she wants to pass her L3 exams has gravitated towards EK part-time. If you enjoy steep couloirs and ropework Chamonix may be the place for you. Something that might put me off a bit are the separate areas (and therefore need to rely on bus or car).
Espace Killy is where I have spent the last three seasons (well two and a half given closure mid-March in 2020). Still plenty of challenging skiing and a vast well-linked domaine. Lift access from your doorstep or a short walk. Attractions for me are that I probably know more people there than any other place and I can get access to training to improve my skiing (lots of top-end trainers, coaches and instructors based there). No shortage of day tours and plenty of cross country tracks (though sadly too many ignorant folk walking in them).
Les Arcs is not on your list but I will say a few words as I spent 6 seasons there, as a long-distance commuter. They were happy days, living a double-life of London office 4 days a week and skiing the rest. I say Les Arcs not Paradiski as I rarely crossed over to La Plagne, even though it was a single lift ride away - there was enough in Les Arcs itself. A much smaller area compared to the two above but with a lot of lift capacity crammed in. A bit more limited for day tours but the nordic area in Nancroix (where I stayed) is fantastic. Wonderful tree skiing which came into its own on bad-viz days. Can be quite affordable compared to the other two above if, eg, you stay in Bourg St Maurice and take the funicular up (10-15 minute ride). It worked for me because it was not too long a drive from Lyon airport (where my car lived during the week) and the season bed in Nancroix was very affordable. The folk running the place let me keep all my gear there and I came and went as I pleased (they have closed now and moved away).
Meribel: spent one season there. A while ago and difficult to draw too many judgements from a one-off but apart from the skiing, got the impression it might be best if you like to party and don't want any French company doing it - many, many, British folk. As a French buddie once angrily said to me coming back from the bar: "I'm in my own country and I can't be understood!".
Hope that helps. Keep us posted on what you decide. My choice for 21/22 will be Tignes if France heads the right way as regards travel from the UK, Covid case numbers, lifts actually opening, etc, etc. If any of this looks shaky I might have to consider somewhere else - you may also need to factor this in. The snow in my back garden in London last Sunday may be the most I see this winter - and I'm sure I'm not alone in being pretty grumpy about it!
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 26-01-21 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd go to Paradiski or 3V personally.
But I think the question is what sort of life are you looking to lead and what sort of skiing will you be doing?
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@borntoski, as above, unless you’re Uber gnarly (Chamonix), Val d’Isere or 3V both have fab terrain, good snow records and both forests and high altitude to cater for weather extremes. Mottaret has better links than Meribel if you’re not bothered about the nightlife.
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| Quote: |
But I think the question is what sort of life are you looking to lead and what sort of skiing will you be doing?
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+1
If you share on the thread, you may get some more focused feedback.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Apologies, perhaps some info on what we are looking to get out of a season would have been beneficial. The replies so far have been great though so thank you for your input and extra information, particularly with resorts not mentioned.
I suppose our main priority would be snowfall. I do not know PdS but having done some research it appears Avoriaz can receive double to triple the snowfall of Meribel. As I am self employed and will be working ad hoc from the computer I will be able to make the most of all powder days and this is also something my partner wants to focus on to build up her off-piste ability. Chamonix would perhaps be overkill for us, however where else would there be more access to 'extreme' terrain and where better to build skills if this is something that we want to do (something to think about but being realistic are we going to get around to that this time round).
I worked a season in 3V 13 years ago now (and the previous year in Verbier) I know Meribel well and we have friends who live there all year round, so it has that draw for us. On the flip side we also want a 'new' adventure.
I have visited both Chamonix and Espace Killy but have not spent any great deal of time in either.
We are not party animals (not anymore) however an ex-pat community would be nice/some people to socialise with (our French speaking skills are fairly limited)
@bobski62 Les Arcs sounds like it could be an option. I wonder also if you also have some useful contacts (accommodation, off-piste training/guiding etc.) in EK?
In essence, not a tiny resort with good snowfall/good breadth of on/off piste options (stating the obvious I know!)
We are also hoping that our accommodation budget of £10-15k will be plenty. Would potentially stretch to £18-20k for something special/own small chalet over a an apartment. We are also bearing in mind parking.
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@borntoski, Avoriaz is often quoted as the snowiest resort in France and while I don't dispute this I do feel that it isn't telling the whole story. There is a loose correlation between altitude and snowfall from a given storm and while Avoriaz is fairly high at 1800m, its top lift only reaches a bit over 2200m whereas the top lifts for EK and 3V are well above 3000m which means that while at resort level Avoriaz might get the most snow, at the altitude that you're actually skiing at it is much less clear cut. Additionally, with increasing numbers of storms that bring rain to 2000m+ there could easily be days when every run in the PDS is a soggy mess but you could spend the day skiing fresh snow in the 3V or EK. Val d'Isere is espcially good for this, a 2200m rain/snow line leaves a good chuck of La Fornet and the upper halves of Solaise and Bellevarde in good condition with no real need to stray onto the lower halves. For me, the Espace Killy is the hands down winner, and I suspect that for someone such as your partner wanting to build experience in not extreme off piste terrain then the same is true.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@borntoski, I've skied all the resorts you described over many years, and if I was wanting to spend a season in any it'd definitely not be Avoriaz , it'd be EK followed by Chamonix, and probably moving between the two. I'd personally not want to stay in town either i'd be renting somewhere in say Le Monal or Ste Foy slightly down the valley and enter in Tignes rather than Val. I think you'd get much better value there, and also a better life experience rather than being a long holiday which would get boring pretty quickly I think.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@borntoski, if anyone starts saying there isn't great off-piste in the 3V or you have some concerns - suggest you take a read through this - https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=4652898
I would also consider the snowline / freezing level, especially if you are looking to get out for an early start / late finish to the "season" and plan on skiing weekends as well and not just "powder days"
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@extremerob, I have some of the best powder days of my life in 3V so I don't have any concerns there + with the altitude the VT pistes offer I think it's fair to say it has a lot going for it. Out of the last 15 years I have probably spent 10 between La Tania, Courch, Meribel and VT. I love it, but I think I also want to try somewhere new.
@Markymark29, Living out of resort could be a good option and I can see the pros, however I have (I think genuine) concerns about the rigmarole of parking everyday as well as road closures and missing perhaps some of the best skiing (I do enjoy the trees on the cloudy dumpy days)
The funicular from Bourg to Paradiski area could be the answer.
Did anything every come of the 'Alpine Legends Ski Pass' linking 3V, Paradiski & EK - I hate to think how much a season pass would be, but living somewhere out of resort centrally (like BSM) with access to all 3 with that kind of pass would definitely be worth looking into.
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You know it makes sense.
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Feel free to ignore as I know it's not on your original list of resorts but have you considered Canada?
- 6 month tourist visa so no faff with visas
- new adventure (assuming you've not skied in n America before)
- British Columbia tends to get more snow than Europe.
- no need to speak French to communicate
- all the terrain inside the resort boundary is avalanche controlled so your gf can practice off-piste easily without the need for partners/equipment etc. Plenty of stuff outside resorts for backcountry skiing and touring.
- accomodation and season lift passes are much cheaper so more than outweigh the cost of flights. For a long stay Canada will be likely cheaper than Europe. £10-15k could easily cover your entire trip let alone just accomodation
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@borntoski, then my two cents would be on EK - if the visa doesn't pan out for France then would suggest verbier / nendaz or Saalbach / Zell am See
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Poster: A snowHead
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@boarder2020, yes considering it (wanted to keep this thread focused on Europe/France though) 
I spent 10 days in Lake Louise a long long time ago. From what you've written it sounds as if it could almost be as easy as Europe post Brexit, my girlfriend (dentist) is also able to practice there without the language barrier so it would potentially open up some income for her if she wanted it. Although this really isn't a priority.
I think the main thing for us in the ski in/ski out options that Europe offers, and that's pretty big for us. As opposed to driving to the ski areas like you have to do in Canada. Perhaps my pre-conceptions on this are wrong though?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There are some options for ski in/out in Canada. Whistler is the obvious choice - huge resort (biggest in n America) with more km pistes than tignes and vald supposedly. Drawback is cost, as it's also the most expensive resort for accomodation.
For most other places there is the possibility to stay slopeside but there's usually not a whole lot there (maybe some accomodation, a restaurant or 2 and a few shops that probably shut not much after the lifts). So for a long stay probably better to stay in the closest town and travel each day. That doesn't have to be a long slog though, rossland to red mountain or fernie to fernie resort are about 5mins on the bus (which is less than my walk used to be from accom on Whistler village to the lifts).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| borntoski wrote: |
| I suppose our main priority would be snowfall. I do not know PdS but having done some research it appears Avoriaz can receive double to triple the snowfall of Meribel. |
Not sure where you are getting that information from but it sounds like bollox.
Compare the average snowfall/snow days here:
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Avoriaz/history
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Meribel/history
But even that isn't a great comparison because what you are interested in is how the whole domain fairs and ski's. Meribel itself I've often found to get quite slushy quite quickly but it's no issue as I wouldn't be spending heaps of time skiing down there anyway.
Also there are relative bad seasons and relative good seasons. Some of that can be regional too so some of it is down to luck.
In short I would rule that out as a criteria - all of those big domains are solid. What I would be more interested in is having people to ski the off piste with...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You need to be using the AdM lift a lot for Chamonix to make sense for a season IMO. You’ve done 3V to death. PdS and GM too low. EK looks perfect
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FWIW, my son, who did seasons in both, rated Val d'Isere much higher than Meribel as a place to live. But the rich Parisian banker for whom he was cooking one season had a (very chic) chalet in Meribel, so that's why he was there, and he did have very swish staff quarters.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@borntoski, if you’re tempted by skiing a lot in both Paradiski and Espace Killy, I agree with @Markymark29, that a base in or near St Foy would be good.
Obviously the small but underrated skiing at St Foy is on your doorstep. Access to Paradiski via Villaroger is about 10 minutes drive.
20 minutes to the free parking at Tignes les Brevieres and you’re in EK. About 25 minutes and you can try La Rosiere for a change and ski over to La Thuile in Italy.
I imagine the funds you’d save on accommodation rental, compared with Val D or Les Arcs, would cover most of your parking and travel costs.
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Val d Isere has it all..
Park your car and enjoy this magnificent ski area..
Day trips to Les Arcs, La Rosiere etc are all easy and good fun but you don’t want to be driving too often.
Seasonal accommodation options are numerous try Kim at www.simplyvaldisere or Ali and James at Peak services ali@peakservices.co.uk for apartments and if they can’t actually help they will point you in the right direction.
As mentioned by a previous SH there are many groups to meet up with and a large expat seasonaires community to ski with or just have a beer.
Guiding days or informal ski days are all readily available and very easy to join.
Head to Rosees la Daille for early apres or the Coin des Amis in the centre of town and after 7 try the Alex Bar where you can meet an eclectic mix of French and Brits in a true locals bar .
Happy to help if you need more information..
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| PdS and GM too low |
it's like saying don't go to Verbier because it's too expensive. Lazy journalism. GM goes to 2500m and has plenty of steep / deep terrain. PdS (avoriaz) is the snowiest resort in France. There is snow right now at 400m and I've been riding it since September. Not everyone needs 3000m altitude.....eg Austria.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've been to all those resorts at least twice and my preference for a season would be:
Chamonix
PDS
GM
Meribel
EK
The latter two have very little else to offer but skiing, the other resorts have easier access to bigger towns.
Just my opinion.
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Hi again @borntoski, looks like EK is getting bigged up a fair bit for you and you had a few specific questions. Here goes...
These two sites are worth a look for accommodation. Your budget sounds quite adequate. Don't neglect AirBnB - I have found that there's little difference in price between them and more traditional outfits.
https://www.livetheseason.com/
https://www.tignes-spirit.com/flats/all_apartments
As regards training, guiding, all these outfits are sound: TDC, New Generation, Ultimate Snowsports, Mountain Masters and based in Tignes or Val d'Isere. For guiding specifically I'd also rate ESF - their guys tend to stay in the same place for their entire careers so get to know it well; some other French firms have more staff churn and have been known to take folk down, say, Gorge du Malpaset (just as an example!) when there's no snow in it. ICE in Val d'Isere is a more specialist outfit majoring on instructor training. Snoworks also do a lot in EK and are always fun to ski with. I won't give any personal recommendations but suffice to say my own experiences have been very positive and likewise everyone I know who has had dealings with any of these companies in EK.
If you do decide to home in on EK, this thread is worth following; @chocksaway is phenomenally helpful and his weather forecasts are legendary (and spookily accurate).
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=153540
Finally, you mentioned parking. It may not be easy to find a place that includes this though the public car parks in Les Brevieres are free. Ditto Les Boisses but it's tiny and there is rarely a free space. So, if you end up in any of the 'main' Tignes villages (Le Lac, Lavachet, Val Claret) or in Val d'Isere, buying a season pass for one of the public car parks is a viable option. The prices in Val d'Isere are very fair and you can choose indoors or outdoors according to budget. The prices in Tignes are extortionate but you can get a hefty discount as a seasonnaire. I don't know what proofs you need but might drop a question on the thread above as I may be looking for a space next winter. Indoor only in the main Tignes villages (the outdoor one in VC is day visits only). I have a note of the headroom in all of them and will post up in next year's Tignes thread. It is obligatory to use the car parks in EK, btw.
And finally... you mentioned freelancing while doing your season. Worth a read through this thread too. Holiday visa may not cut it (but I've not studied the detail).
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=4641249&highlight=#4641249
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Noticed a few other points I thought I should follow up on @borntoski.
You mentioned 'Alpine Legends Ski Pass'. I yearn for this but nothing yet has actually happened. If you stay in BSM though, you save so much on accommodation rental that you can comfortably afford a season pass for both EK and Paradiski. That was my plan for this winter, as I'd have done pre-season in Tignes, so that season's pass cost was sunk anyway, and then moved to BSM. Drive up to Les Brevs on nice days; local in the trees in Les Arcs on crappy days. All binned, sadly.
Which brings me on to tree skiing, which you also say you enjoy. If it's a biggie for you, I'd head for Val d'Isere over Tignes. On bad days when links are closed you have La Daille trees and Le Fornet trees on your doorstep. On days like that when I lived in Val, I'd simply lap the Le Daille gondola (it's a real express) and end the day soaked, knackered but very, very happy. Tignes-side the only tree skiing is down to Les Boisses and Brev and it's awfully cliffy - so you need to learn your routes and there are not that many of them.
Another difference I noticed between the two was that Val seemed more of a resort town whereas Tignes attracted a bigger seasonnaire crowd, that's to say Val had a bigger weekly churn of holidaymakers but was a place seasonnaires struggled to afford to live in.
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| polo wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| PdS and GM too low |
it's like saying don't go to Verbier because it's too expensive. Lazy journalism. GM goes to 2500m and has plenty of steep / deep terrain. PdS (avoriaz) is the snowiest resort in France. There is snow right now at 400m and I've been riding it since September. Not everyone needs 3000m altitude.....eg Austria. |
No arguing it’s great in good conditions, but what about on Thursday/Friday when it rains up to 2000m? The snowpack will get drenched and the off piste wrecked while EK will get 1m of fresh and the top half will still be good quality. This is why I think it’s too low when the OP has the choice.
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You know it makes sense.
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@bobski62, Thanks very much for the info and links. I have spent the day reading threads, searching for facebook groups as well as scouring google maps and accommodation sites. You're right, airbnb has some great options.
BSM may well be the answer or the suggestions @Markymark29, & @PeakyB, made. You obviously get A LOT more for your money and I'm starting to feel the trade off the small amount of driving will be worth it. There are some really nice properties at up to a 3rd of the price of in resort.
I'm going to do some research into what it's like to live in BSM and wait to see what the letting agencies etc. come back with. As has been pointed out, it will be easy to justify a season pass for both Paradiski and EK with the savings on accom from not living in resort. As well as having the option of some days in 3V with our friends. Decisions to be made but all very exciting ones!
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FAQ
