 Poster: A snowHead
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This morning I made a discovery that I’m pretty confident a lot of posters to this forum won’t be aware of, but I’m sure will be of interest to many. Last season whilst skiing in Courchevel on hire skis, I’d had problems with aching legs, and thigh burn. I had, like everyone else I’m sure, suffered these problems occasionally before, but not to this extent. I posted something about this on here at the time, and got a fairly blunt “Get some lessons” response, to which as I recall, I gave an equally blunt response. Today, I was browsing through a book called The All Mountain Skier, and stumbled on a section about Binding delta angle (hands up all those who know what this is? Thought not!!! Actually I’m sure some do………..but I’d bet far more don’t)
Binding Delta Angle is apparently the difference in height between the front and back binding. I didn’t know there was a difference, and more interestingly, it’s not the same for all manufacturers. The chap who wrote the book, R. Mark Elling, is a highly qualified skier, but evidently this information came as a revelation to him after he suffered unexpected leg pain problems with different bindings. He did some experiments, inserting shims of differing thickness’ in front and back binding, and discovered that shims as thin as 0,5mm (0.020”) could make significant differences to the way he skied.
Being someone who runs, and suffered a prolonged problem with shin-splints (for 18 months) before a podietrist sorted a 5 degree heel angulation problem out with orthotics, I can appreciate how much difference a small adjustment can make (and not always to the good)
I’m by no means saying that the binding issue was the cause of all my particular problem, but it’s definitely given me food for thought.
So beware; that shiny new equipment you buy and use may contain a whole set of problems you never knew existed. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Phil Jordan, more food for thought: do the indicated corrections remain the same over time, over experience, or over conditioning for the same skier/runner?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Manufacturer's Delta Angles (height of heel binding about the toe binding):
Atomic & Salomon: +2mm
Fischer & Tyrolia: +3mm
Look, Rossi & Marker: +5mm
When I had my boots balanced the forward lean/ramp angle were adjusted whilst in my Atomic skis. I've a pair of new Rossi bindings & when I mount them I'll use a 3mm shims under the toe bindings to get a matching angle to my Atomic's.
Phil Jordan, After boot balancing & Detla Angles are sorted you can then start playing with the fore/aft binding location. I have three pairs of totally different skis but all have the same bindings, delta angles & fore/aft binding location so when I swap between them I don't have to make any posture corrections. As veeeight says, many are unconvinced but it seems common sense & works for me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Works for me too (so even us below average skiers can benefit from it  )
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spyderjon, I measured the difference in toe/heel heights between my Atomic and Rossi bindings when they were mounted on the ski (i.e. I included any difference in the ski as well as in the binding) and that gave me a difference of 5mm between the set-ups (42/44 -> +2mm for Atomic and 34/41 -> +7mm for Rossi).
My original estimate of 8mm must have been made under the influence  but in any event, the Rossi set-up just wasn't for me and nearly ruined a couple of days skiing before I realised what the problem was.
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spyderjon as you kow I have Atomic & Look bindings on different skis. Despite the fact they may, or may not be, straight (  ) where do you get shims from?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, In reference to the runner, I would say no, things don’t remain the same over time. It’s not uncommon for peoples shoe size to increase with age. This is apparently due to a slight, and quite natural lowering of the arches, and hence, lengthening of the foot. There was a fairly protracted debate on here a while ago about overpronation/underpronation, and I wouldn’t want to open up that one again, but I would think it reasonable to assume that foot shape changes can have an effect on these two conditions.
My particular shin-splint problems were due to overpronation, which, as I said was related to a heel-plant angulation condition.
When it comes to skiing, for me at least the position is less clear cut. Feet and ankles are contained in a pretty rigid ski boot. So although I can see how binding angulation can affect areas outside of the boot – lower leg, knees, thighs, hips etc. foot changes might be less significant. Of course, the inevitable wear and tear that happens to joints over time probably will give rise to changes in equipment – but not just binding angulation.
(Can you get a Zimmer frame with skis attached? Or should I rush down to the patent office? )
spyderjon, from my experience, seems common sense to me as well. I'm a little surprised to hear some dismiss it so readily. 
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
| spyderjon as you kow I have Atomic & Look bindings on different skis. Despite the fact they may, or may not be, straight ( ) where do you get shims from? |
You can get them a number of places like Tognar & The Race Place etc. However if you get them from Bud Heishman ( http://www.snowind.com ) you can then get can get the spare heel & toe pieces you were after for your boots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jtr, As you say, I'm sure, like most other skiing info it has been covered on here before. I wonder though how often the topic of wedge angle has been associated with actual pain and discomfort?
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